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about siklback and their husbandry

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Denisebme said:
Its the truth, as reported by Mike back in April. The fact that he is contradicting himself now is not my concern.
So now I have to ask, what's your agenda in all this? You don't appear to be a breeder, you don't really seem to be here for any purpose that one can put a finger on, so I have to ask why you're so invested in attacking people just because they disagree with the party line?
Click to expand...

So to post my opinion on a public forum, which I have been a member on since late 2003, I must be a current breeder and/or have a agenda? I don't think so, Denise. I could ask you the same, why you're so invested in attacking people just because they AGREE with the (so called) party line? Spokesperson/Spokesmodel is what I think we have been called. I know Jamie prefers Spokesmodel, if I remember correctly.

and I also agree with Dennis, very wise man..

Dennis Hultman said:

Honestly, from an outside perspective, I think there have been many statements made on many fronts that would appear to be problematic if a legal route were taken. That’s a dangerous area to venture and once it starts that direction you never know where it might lead you. Just an opinion.
Common sense and passions about what is right and wrong don't always fall inline with the legal system.
Click to expand...

Denisebme said:
And lastly, as of this morning, we are also going to pursue this as a legal matter and will be acting on the advice of our attorney.
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Go do a search on the BOI,(Matt@MGREPTILES is a good start) and see how many have been laughed off the BOI for stating the same exact statement. :laugh:
 
This is what I am reading I think: and in this order

animal was inbred....yep, animal was inbred to create super
inbreeding is bad.....wanted to prove the super form, animal is now being outbred
they have skin like an eye lid.... nope like a pinky mouse or kinda like a **&&*
there is maybe more than one silk here.....there is one silkback in US, that silkback is being watched and studied by the caretakers for any signs of abnormal development (besides the obvious lack of scales) ,silkback is not being bred in the USA at this time,there are no silkbacks available for purchase in the USA at this time
they are ugly .... nope cute
It is abuse to create them.... nope it isn't they are doing just fine so far
They could have inferior immune and development.....who said?we shall see
They will be ripped up during breeding.......who said? we shall see if we get that far
Vicki took Denise to the BOI....nope varnyard did under extreme coercement
Vicki is lying..nope Denise is lying more
Denise is legally pursueing Vicki ...doesn't matter Vicki just pays off everybody anyhow

I must be demented to gather this tidbit of info from all these posts, or right on the money

This is sad, I haven't seen the Dachiu's respond to any of the unethical or lying accusations in the other thread or the early parts of this thread, the first jab in this particular thread was as early as Pg 3 and then there was a large response to the constant knife pricks. It is just really enough. Bobby took Denise to the BOI not Vicki..it says Varnyard on my computer screen....accountability is owned by the person who taps the enter key.

So, I guess the bald ewok discussion is over?
 
Valley Dragons said:
Well, they have not tested positive yet, but if they do - and as long as I have not had any problems, then yes, I will sell the babies. I encourage my customers to keep in contact with me so that I will know about any potential probmes, should something occur in the future.

Jamie
Click to expand...


I rest my case on this. Its obviously NOT about the dragons with these types of people. Who KNOWINGLY spread this virus around, with not a care in the world. when they know That others have experienced the problems that Adenovirus can cause.

Some damned morals....

Thats basically like saying, Nah dont put a stopsign or a crosswalk or light at that really busy intersection.... Unless somone dies... its just a waste of money.

So its okay to possibly risk the lives of others, so long as nothing has happened yet huh? wow......
 
Mooing Tricycle said:
I rest my case on this. Its obviously NOT about the dragons with these types of people. Who KNOWINGLY spread this virus around, with not a care in the world. when they know That others have experienced the problems that Adenovirus can cause.

Some damned morals....

Thats basically like saying, Nah dont put a stopsign or a crosswalk or light at that really busy intersection.... Unless somone dies... its just a waste of money.

So its okay to possibly risk the lives of others, so long as nothing has happened yet huh? wow......
Click to expand...

Your lack of understanding of this situation astounds me. And who the hell are you to determine my morals and concern for my dragons? IF my healthy dragons end up being adenovirus positive...then maybe that is a BIG CLUE as to the nature of this virus! :angry:

Jamie
 
KelliH said:
I have a question. It would appear to me that just about every breeder posting here, along with all of the larger breeders, have adenovirus in their colonies. Well, except for Denise. So, what some of you are suggesting is that all of these bearded dragon breeders discontinue breeding their dragons. Is that correct?
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Im definitely suggesting that those who have the virus in their collection stop. And i definitely dont feel the least bit bad about expecting it either.

If you saw a leopard gecko breeder selling sick animals, or animals that were known to have a virus that COULD be harmful to others colony's, would you want them breeding as well? even if it was a Mixed issue virus just like this?

Would you stop breeding infected animals, and go into a quarantine state, if it were in your collection?

Breeding dragons with the virus knowingly is wrong. plain and simple.

Why is Anyone even QUESTIONING it?!?!
 
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exactly! lou ann miller and dr. jacobson requested that if your beardies are positive for AV then do not breed/sell.why aren't you people getting it?
 
Valley Dragons said:
Your lack of understanding of this situation astounds me. And who the hell are you to determine my morals and concern for my dragons? IF my healthy dragons end up being adenovirus positive...then maybe that is a BIG CLUE as to the nature of this virus! :angry:

Jamie
Click to expand...

AHAHAHA my lack of understanding.... Actually i understand QUITE CLEARLY what is going on in this WHOLE situation... People too concerned with getting their moneys worth from these animals, to prevent the virus from spreading further.

Hows about you breed your animals, if they ARE positive, and KEEP them. Start doing experiments, ALONG with adeno free animals, and start recording information and posting those results.

How do the growth rates differ?
How do the appetites differ?
Basking behaviors differ?
Recovery from an illness with both animals?
Maturity rate?
Production rates with Adeno Negative, and Positive animals?
Clutch Hatch rates, again, with positive and negative animals?

What other things should be watched? Anyone feel free to add to that list.....

Until you can show us that there is NOTHING wrong with this virus, since you are so DAMN adamant about continuing to breed and sell those animals, even if they are infected, i will not rest with the subject that, for the time being, the morals, and ethics on the production of animals WITH the virus, and the continuation of sales regardless of the virus are very. very. very wrong.
 
Not like I’ll bring anyone way off topic anymore than it already is but I was curious about several statements I read regarding the earliest reports of Adeno.

I took note that one of the earliest reported cases came from a zoo or park in Australia and/or New Zealand. Is there much known about that/those particular case(s)? Any information on the history of the animal(s)? Does that lend credence that Adeno is prevalent in wild populations? If so, any studies on how prevalent? Just curious…
 
Dennis Hultman said:
Not like I’ll bring anyone way off topic anymore than it already is but I was curious about several statements I read regarding the earliest reports of Adeno.

I took note that one of the earliest reported cases came from a zoo or park in Australia and/or New Zealand. Is there much known about that/those particular case(s)? Any information on the history of the animal(s)? Does that lend credence that Adeno is prevalent in wild populations? If so, any studies on how prevalent? Just curious…
Click to expand...

A Barbatus was discovered at the Auckland Zoological Park in 1990 but it wasn't discovered in Pogona vittaceps until 1996. I don't know if that proves that they are prevalent in the wild as we don't know the origins of this Barbatus, if it was actually a wild caught animal. I know being that it was at the Auckland Zoological Park would make one think that it was, but not necessarily so. And I'm not too sure if anything more is known about this person who discovered it or of the animal who had it.
 
Saladragon said:
Sherri-

Don't waste your breath. I'm pretty sure that no matter what way Vickie tries to spin that, everyone who witnessed it knows what really happened. Some just have a harder time accepting it than others.
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Wild, isn't it? :bang:
 
Saladragon said:
Bobby Hill (Varnyard) wanted me to post that he's reading and he fourths this, for the good of the animals. The animals should always come first, and it should never be about the money.
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draggintails said:
Bobby took Denise to the BOI not Vicki..it says Varnyard on my computer screen....accountability is owned by the person who taps the enter key.
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Hi Bobby,
:wavey: :wavey: :wavey: :wavey: :wavey:

Since you are reading here under stealth mode...
 
Dennis Hultman said:
Not like I’ll bring anyone way off topic anymore than it already is but I was curious about several statements I read regarding the earliest reports of Adeno.

I took note that one of the earliest reported cases came from a zoo or park in Australia and/or New Zealand. Is there much known about that/those particular case(s)? Any information on the history of the animal(s)? Does that lend credence that Adeno is prevalent in wild populations? If so, any studies on how prevalent? Just curious…
Click to expand...


Also, if you think about how long the dragons have been here in the states, since the early 80's, without Adeno being discovered until '96 wouldn't that give a slight indication that the dragons didn't come here captive caught with the virus....16 years is a long time for people not to notice that our dragons were sick. Or could it be that they no longer could fight it off as their immune system had been weakened by continuous inbreeding?
 
whiskersmom said:
A Barbatus was discovered at the Auckland Zoological Park in 1990 but it wasn't discovered in Pogona vittaceps until 1996. I don't know if that proves that they are prevalent in the wild as we don't know the origins of this Barbatus, if it was actually a wild caught animal. I know being that it was at the Auckland Zoological Park would make one think that it was, but not necessarily so. And I'm not too sure if anything more is known about this person who discovered it or of the animal who had it.
Click to expand...

Thanks. Does anyone have a link handy about the specific cases reported in 96? Were they all in the US? Were those particular animals’ imports?
 
mikey said:
Hi Bobby,
:wavey: :wavey: :wavey: :wavey: :wavey:

Since you are reading here under stealth mode...
Click to expand...

Bobby chose to leave Fauna a little while back. But, when his name is being thrown around, I don't think you can blame him for 'reading here under stealth mode', when he also said he isn't coming back several times due to other issues. I see no problem with it....What happened is there for everyone to see...
 
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whiskersmom said:
Also, if you think about how long the dragons have been here in the states, since the early 80's, without Adeno being discovered until '96 wouldn't that give a slight indication that the dragons didn't come here captive caught with the virus....16 years is a long time for people not to notice that our dragons were sick. Or could it be that they no longer could fight it off as their immune system had been weakened by continuous inbreeding?
Click to expand...

Maybe, maybe not. New and mutant strains of viruses pop-up in every animal on this planet. Man isn't exempt either.
 
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