About the BOI and it's future here...

[deborahbroadus]

Oh LORD!! Can we please move on???

I for one am interested in how to save the BOI not hurt feelings.

Rich needs money. Those of us that want to help have tried our best to donate as much as we can by way of becoming Contributors/sponsors.

What can we do that will encourage others to go that route? Some of the current people are not licensed business breeders and have no actual stake in supporting the BOI? An idea was submitted to keep the Ads free but subtract a part of their sales.. (if that won't create additional needed manpower and money outgo. Another idea would be to perhaps make comments in the BOI limited to those breeders that actually went the route of becoming taxed/ state licensed breeders? *just a thought.

 

[TattooLost]

I'd also like to add, that this site has become a second home to me, though I spend more time in the chat room than the forums. I only wish I'd found the site sooner. I discovered Fauna and the BOI after being scammed by good old Bruce Eisenmann on a "het pied" girl. If I'd known about this site sooner or searched sooner, I wouldn't be holding onto a $600 "het for normal" girl right now. I chalk it up to a lesson learned now though, and use the BOI to the fullest extent when making a purchase now. Sure, there's garbage spewed in a lot of threads, but people really wanting to know the truth know to wade through it to get the real story.

 

[ajc]

Hey Kevin,

Didn't mean to ignore your post.

I don't agree with making the BOI threads a buyer/seller only thing. In many cases, if not most, the seller is much more experienced than the buyer. If some experienced individuals didn't jump in, even though they are not part of the transaction, the buyer would just get discouraged and drop it.

I don't understand what you mean by "drop it". If you get screwed, you post your story and that's that. There's no judge here. Even with the current system, the idea is that buyers share their story and readers then look at those facts to form an opinion of their own.

Sure, the seller can defend themselves, just like they can here...and then the buyer can respond as necessary.

Having 40 other people posting their opinion isn't going to help anyone win anything. All those opinions, valid or not, only muddy the waters and make it difficult to learn what really happened.

Also many times the seller's "true colors" don't come out without a little prodding.

I think this is where I have a fundamental problem with this forum as it is right now.

If I'm buying an animal, I don't care to know the seller's true colors...honestly couldn't care less. If he likes to wear his boxers with the hole in the back, good for him. lol

All I care is what his past customers have to say. If I see he has a lot of unhappy customers, I'm not buying from him. If they all say he's a saint, I figure it will probably be OK.

Regardless of how much I respect someone, I'm not really concerned with their opinion of a seller as a person. I just wanna know if his past customers have been happy, or if they've felt cheated...all the rest is just crap I have to sift through to find out what I need to know.

I wouldn't even consider buy from someone that attempted to limit my recourse if the deal went south.

Exactly, me neither!

Like I said before, it's sad, and a little scary, that a good guy (which he really is) is so concerned that his reputation could be damaged by a post here, even if he does nothing wrong.

The whole point of me posting that, is that it says a lot about the reputation this place has gotten.

 

[dragonlvr64]

If you look at the people who have posted in this section...it is the same people. The others are not reading this thread or are just not replying to it.
That is the whole problem in my opinion, not enough people are aware of the reality of this problem.
While the discussion goes on about how to fix the BOI,is there anyway that this site as a whole can have one main page that in big bold print briefly spells out the issue and has the person click on a link that lets them back into the main section? Or maybe even more of a link, so that Rich is assured people are actually reading of this issue. Maybe they have to type something in the first time they go to access the page for the day ....

I don't know, just a thought on how to get more people responding and brainstorming.

 

[ajc]

I kinda take offense to your posts Anthony, because from the start you lumped all "regulars" as the problem on this site.

Hey Richard,

No offense intended!

This thread is long, so I don't blame you for not reading it all.

But if you look back on page 9 (that's what page it's on for me anyway), you'll see where I was careful to point out 99% of the members here use this site properly. And I honestly believe that number is pretty accurate. The only problem is, when you have tens of thousand memberss, even 1% makes for a whole lot of idiots.

I realize there are tons of other forums here, and that many people use those forums regularly. In fact, I think cleaning up this one forum might make those forums more popular.

I've said it once, and I'll say it again. The BOI really is good for all of us, buyers and breeders alike. That's why I'm so pissed off that it's about to go away!

It's just unfortunate that a small percentage of members are such knuckleheads that they've managed to give this website a terribly bad reputation.

I think this site can be one of, if not, the best there is. Hopefully Rich hasn't been beaten down so badly that he no longer realizes that.

OK, I'm outta here for now...

 

[ajc]

That is the whole problem in my opinion, not enough people are aware of the reality of this problem.

Hey Cindy!!!

Gotta run, but you hit the nail on the head. I had no idea until the other night when someone told me about it. Had I known, I would have been on here raising hell a long time ago!

And to be honest, the reason I didn't know, is because I try not to visit here...I just look at the classifieds and avoid the BOI at all costs because I know if I see one of my friends getting hammered on, I'll get sucked in, I'll get riled up and I'll leave with a headache. lol

Talk soon!
AC

Again, the bad reputation causing problems.

 

[deborahbroadus]

Hey Cindy!!!

Gotta run, but you hit the nail on the head. I had no idea until the other night when someone told me about it. Had I known, I would have been on here raising hell a long time ago!

And to be honest, the reason I didn't know, is because I try not to visit here...I just look at the classifieds and avoid the BOI at all costs because I know if I see one of my friends getting hammered on, I'll get sucked in, I'll get riled up and I'll leave with a headache. lol

Talk soon!
AC

Again, the bad reputation causing problems.

Sort of like people are doing now from your posts against their friends? That is not escaping anyone's notice either.

 

[AF Exotics]

Hey Deborah,good point to get on track with the idea of revenue generators .I still think a small fee for classifieds is inevitable .Maybe even setting up some tier system for length of days and cost .I know some do not want to hear that,but I think the response to Rich's plea has shown that another way is needed .Maybe also a fixed auction page for site donation for raffles too .I know there was a thread going on,but it would be nice to set something up,and even if it has to be independent of this site .Just some random ideas .

 

[Lucille]

Hey Deborah,good point to get on track with the idea of revenue generators .I still think a small fee for classifieds is inevitable .Maybe even setting up some tier system for length of days and cost .I know some do not want to hear that,but I think the response to Rich's plea has shown that another way is needed .Maybe also a fixed auction page for site donation for raffles too .I know there was a thread going on,but it would be nice to set something up,and even if it has to be independent of this site .Just some random ideas .

I agree revenue ideas are essential. But raffles are illegal in some states as gambling. Classified fees? I think that would drive off casual advertisers although I would gladly pay for an ad. Maybe more in the way of banner ads?.

 

[deborahbroadus]

Advertising revenue:

A set fee for registered breeding businesses giving unlimited access to the whole site and unlimited advertising ability, but a percentage of successful sales and Unlimited number of ads but Read Only access to the BOI for unregistered breeders ?

 

[AF Exotics]

So in this formula Deborah,the set fee user would have some financial incentive to become one,like lower intial cost for registration ? along with the unlimited site access .

 

[deborahbroadus]

So in this formula Deborah,the set fee user would have some financial incentive to become one,like lower intial cost for registration ? along with the unlimited site access .

Yes, along those lines.

The negative is: It would still take time to catch on...and time is short, also we don't know how much more (time and/or money) Rich is inclined to invest in the site.

I would hate to see a monopoly created, which is what would likely happen if the BOI disappeared (as far as paying for advertising).

 

[Southern Wolf]

Again, honest breeders and upstanding hobbyists have nothing to fear here on the BOI and would have no reason to stand up for themselves short of being called an idiot from likes of you.

I dont know about this Dand.... and here is why I say this. When Kelly brought David's (RIPsters) dirty laundry to bear... she got beat up pretty quick by a few because of the so called reputation that David had in the industry. She did however prove herself and her case... but not before taking a small verbal beating (from a few) in the process.

True... honest breeders and upstanding hobbyists will come out in the end.... but at what initial cost. I know its just the cross we must bear in the court of public opinion... but there are a few that DO like to come here to instigate fights and cause controversy. I guess its just the nature of the beast.

 

[sincitydragons]

Forgive me if this has already been discussed but couldn't there be a kind of legal waiver that members would have to agree to before being allowed use the website that would say something to the affect of...
"I so and so by checking this box agree to do business honestly on this website and release this websites owner and all employees of any legal liability of statements or complaints made by third parties."
For that matter there could also be an agreement to a code of business ethics stating that sellers and buyers would to the best of their ability handle themselves ethically and could be banned from the site at anytime at the discretion of the site owner, employees, and moderators, as they already do. Just a thought.

 

[ajc]

Sort of like people are doing now from your posts against their friends? That is not escaping anyone's notice either.

Damn right...difference is, my friends aren't the losers who have turned this place into a circus side show. If you feel the need to defend that behavior, you're no better than they are (not YOU personally, but as a figure of speech).

And actually, I think the irony here is escaping you.

Let me explain...

1. I came here and referred to the abusers here as idiots, in order to manipulate said abusers into helping me demonstrate exactly that point.

2. On cue, they show up and commence the attack. Not only are they going to prove that they aren't idiots, they're also going to show me a thing or two...because they're really good at arguing. lol

3. To "prove" to me and everyone else that they're not idiots, they begin comparing me to Hitler, accusing me of having knotted panties, poor widdle this, using dramatic words like "hatred", etc.

Need I continue?

 

[sincitydragons]

Anthony makes a point, when he started he referred to no one in particular. If anyone was offended it could only be because they feel some guilt of being one of the 1% he mentioned. If someone goes in to the middle of the street and screams "I'M NOT A MORON!!" I'm pretty sure everyone that sees or hears them is going to immediately think to themselves... "what a moron" so why when Anthony makes such a broad statement do you take it to heart unless you feel there's some truth to it. Now please how can we save the BOI?

 

[deborahbroadus]

Damn right...difference is, my friends aren't the losers who have turned this place into a circus side show. If you feel the need to defend that behavior, you're no better than they are (not YOU personally, but as a figure of speech).

And actually, I think the irony here is escaping you.

Let me explain...

1. I came here and referred to the abusers here as idiots, in order to manipulate said abusers into helping me demonstrate exactly that point.

2. On cue, they show up and commence the attack. Not only are they going to prove that they aren't idiots, they're also going to show me a thing or two...because they're really good at arguing. lol

3. To "prove" to me and everyone else that they're not idiots, they begin comparing me to Hitler, accusing me of having knotted panties, poor widdle this, using dramatic words like "hatred", etc.

Need I continue?

Sigh.....

Firstly, I feel no need to defend anything. My goal, desire, want, need, is to see how we can help the BOI continue to exist. I fail to see how proving morons are morons helps to achieve this aim. IMO, it is simply rehashing the past without concern for the future (meaning how can we plan so that the BOI is kept running and any "morons" don't have run of the place to derail topics by acting in the manner that you have demonstrated?)

I don't think the "irony" has escaped anyone.

My chief concern is that in the possiblity in losing the BOI, a monopoly may be created, which, again in my opinion, is NOT in the best interest of the small and beginning breeders.

 

[ajc]

Sigh.....

Firstly, I feel no need to defend anything. My goal, desire, want, need, is to see how we can help the BOI continue to exist. I fail to see how proving morons are morons helps to achieve this aim. IMO, it is simply rehashing the past without concern for the future (meaning how can we plan so that the BOI is kept running and any "morons" don't have run of the place to derail topics by acting in the manner that you have demonstrated?)

I don't think the "irony" has escaped anyone.

My chief concern is that in the possiblity in losing the BOI, a monopoly may be created, which, again in my opinion, is NOT in the best interest of the small and beginning breeders.

No, you're right. I didn't have to do that...but honestly, I'm so pissed off that we're even talking about the BOI going away, that I really don't care if I offend a few people if they want to defend the bickering and BS that go on over here. That's saying a lot considering I have a lot of customers who are going to see my rants here...bottom line, I know most will agree with what I'm saying, even if they don't like the way I say it.

And sister, you're preaching to the choir about a monopoly...couldn't have said it better myself. We couldn't agree more on that, let me tell ya. That's an excellent point, one of the best I've seen in this thread, and another reason I get so angry when I think about what could happen.

To that effect, I honestly think this site could compete, or even OUT compete, other websites...if only Rich could get this place cleaned up. It's really a tragedy that he's sitting on a gold mine, yet a tiny percentage of members (who contribute little in the way of value or $$$) are being allowed to keep him from getting at the gold.

I know I'm not the only one who thinks that...I know of a couple people who would like to buy this website and turn this thing into THE prominant reptile community/portal.

 

[R. Eventide]

I have to say I'm in the "I mostly agree with AC but not the way he said it" crowd.

I feel there are a few (loud) people ruining the BOI. I hesitate to post there because of the way people love to attack others. Even Good Guys end up getting crapped on because someone manages to dig up a tiny bit of mud on them (or twists their words) that has absolutely nothing to do with the situation at hand and blows it completely out of proportion. And, sad to say, most of the few, loud attackers are not contributors.

I'm sad at what the BOI has become. It is supposed to be a place where the truth comes out about sellers/buyers and where people can easily find information on breeders' reputations. While that still happens, I feel that the BOI nowadays is mostly people slinging mud at anyone and everyone they possibly can. If Fauna's reputation has gone down the toilet (I don't frequent many other fora), it's not hard to see why.

I like the idea of restricting BOI posts to only those who have had first-hand experience with the buyer/seller the thread is about. We could have one thread for each seller/buyer (which would make people easier to search for and find), and people wouldn't have to waste hours wading through all the third-party crap. If other people see weaknesses in arguments, they can PM the party or parties involved, who can then question the buyer/seller in the thread. There's no need for everyone and his dog to comment on who he thinks is lying, what terrible TV shows the seller watches, or how the buyer's grammar means he's an idiot who must've done something stupid to screw up the transaction.

While the BOI is (was?) a great resource, it won't be for long if the current trend continues. If the BOI becomes a laughingstock (assuming it hasn't already), then its usefulness will be gone. Granted, even in that form, it does help me add a lot of people to my "do not buy from/sell to" list....

 

[R. Eventide]

Ooops, forgot something....

Another positive to having a single thread about each person is that we wouldn't need the Good Guy/Bad Guy listing. This would force people to read the thread about the seller/buyer and not just assume based on the title, and it would allow everyone to make up their own mind about who is truly the bad guy.