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Info Al Brown/ Liar

I have offered all info on the animal purchased as I do for everyone to this customer so here it is for you all to see.

The Albino Jungle sire was produced by me from a Jungle Het. Albino produced by Frank Martin and a Het Albino Produced by Robert Harmon.. The Albino Jungle Father was born in 08.

The Dame was produced by Peter Kahl from a Lipstick Hypo Het Albino Female and a Coral Albino Jungle Father... She was born in litter 19 of the 2006 Boa litters list on PK's site..

The father of this litter was an albino jungle and the mother was a Lipstick jungle Het albino produced by PK that is as much info as I have on them...

I offered picutures of the Albino Jungles Parents to Mr. Peterson and instead I have been labeled a liar with a complete premature BOI post..

A photo id with picture of the neonate and the father and a picture of the mother and her birth info was sent to the customer... That's as much lineage info as I have on them...

The photo id is lineage info as it has parental pictures and info on the dames parents that can't be saved off of Petes site because it is security protected. I disclose all info that I have on any animal to any customer... Mr. Peterson has proven to be totally impatient and insulting to me and I refuse to deal with grown children.. I was on vacation when this was brought to my attention and explianed in a Blackberry email I would be glad to send this info to him when I returned home on Monday October 31, 2011 and was able to get to my cpu.


I'm sorry that this wasn't enough info for Mr. Peterson...

Thanks to ShadowAceD for making me aware of this KOOK. The animal has also only been in Mr. Petersons possession for two weeks...

Thanks and have a great day...
 
From the pic provided by the OP that snake has more verifiable pedigree info attached to it than the guy mowing my lawn right now!
 
So we call names now because lineage papers were not sent?
kook,whatever Al.Now you show who you really are.
A photo id is not lineage papers Al.Calling names because you lied to me is just childish on your part.
I have the same photo id on my pc that you sent.
You do know what lineage papers are,right?
I have lineage papers on all My "pr" blue pits from avatar above.It shows,mom,dad,grand parents and great grand parents and goes back 7 lines.
Al did send photo id only when asked! Would he have done so if i didnt ask?
I love the name calling from another adult saying i'm a child.Grow up.
I'm not going to play like your doing.
I stated what was stated to me,when you think 1 photo id is lineage papers,time to sell something else.
 
I'm not a boa person, but I don't see any problem with the photo ID (unless the issue is simply that it's not signed, but I've received other photo IDs that weren't signed). It has pictures of the parents, and it states who produced them. I'm not really sure I understand what info is missing.
 
I'm slightly torn. The email said all of his lineage information telling everything about him. Not all of his lineage information that was on hand. However the OP made it sound as if it were only a photo ID of the snake in question when it did in fact have the sire and dam as well. maybe a miscommunication?
 
And i was not give the info above from Alby stating who was made by who,which is part of lineage!I have nothing stating anything was produced by Frank Martin
I said what i had to say about paper work.If i'm wrong and you guys think an un signed photo id is lineage papers,please state and i will apologize as any real man would.
I have better paper work(lineage) from a no name breeder.
Al didnt even sign the papers.Now in 2 years will he state he didnt sell me this boa??
Rich
 
I don't think its fair to expect a pedigree like you'd get with a purebred dog or horse with a snake since there's no central record keeping organization or registry. I also think you're jumping the gun in assuming that 2 yrs from now Al is going to say he didn't sell you the boa just because he didn't sign the paperwork. I've purchased hets with paperwork (some signed, some unsigned), and hets without. The reality is that all the paperwork I've seen so far would be fairly easy to fake. I save emails to go with it and purchase hets from people I trust, but that's all that can be done IMO.

Horses are DNA tested when they are registered, but since there's no registry no one does that for snakes...
 
I did not assume anything! I only asked what if.I really am not worried about what he says in 2 years.
Jungle paper work is very important and does have lineage to go back as far as Lars.
Yes,some people do keep all records of birthing boas,just as i do.
Maybe Al should have explained what lineage papers are to him.
I have bred blue pits for years and lineage to me is a genetic make up of said pup to be sold.
1 set of parents are not lineage,he should have included what 2 boa's made the albino he produced to breed with the 05 jungle.Al said(i think)in above that Frank Martin had made 1 of the boas Al used.Thats part of lineage.
 
Those papers look sufficient to me to qualify as lineage paperwork, sorry. Not all paperwork is going to go back 7 generations. Dogs that have a registry are not the same as snakes, since the idea of papered bloodlines is a century old with dogs, not so with snakes.

They aren't signed, true, but they qualify as paperwork and they are a photo ID which along with your emails of purchase, would show that snake was bought from that seller at that date. A boa's markings don't change so 2 years or 10 years, you should be able to use that photo ID.

When did you receive the snake? And did you get a message saying that he would send your info when he came back from vacation?

For the seller, if you were unable to send the info until the 31st, why were you able to send the photo lineage/ID earlier? Did you consider the photo ID to be the lineage or were you intending to mail him a secondary paperwork with the rest of the info that you have(i.e. the lineage you mentioned in your post here)?

For the OP again, did you specify in your original deal in buying the snake that you REQUIRED XX number of generations of lineage? Knowing the parents is normally what *I* think of in knowing the parentage of any particular snake. If I want further back info(i.e. what produced the mom, what line of pastel a snake is out of, etc) I ask before I agree to buy the animal.
 
allreptiles1966 said:
And i was not give the info above from Alby stating who was made by who,which is part of lineage!I have nothing stating anything was produced by Frank Martin
I said what i had to say about paper work.If i'm wrong and you guys think an un signed photo id is lineage papers,please state and i will apologize as any real man would.
I have better paper work(lineage) from a no name breeder.
Al didnt even sign the papers.Now in 2 years will he state he didnt sell me this boa??
Rich
Click to expand...

I understand your concerns. I agree that it's wise to cover all the bases on your (seller's) end when being on the buyer end. By this, I mean that while in the "buyer" mode, one needs to be aware of how they will be able to move the animal later and having a SIGNED document is something that one can refer to and is not likely to be labled a "forgery" as it can be verified.

What do you think the buyer can do to make you a satisfied customer? Do you need more history on the animal's document and a signature? Can you outline exactly what you want on the document? Is the seller willing to create another document that would satisfy the buyer?

**Personally, when buying an animal (BP) if there's a signed document, I usually contact the original seller to verify that he did sell the animal and the documents are not forged, before making a purchase. If someone is trying to pawn unsigned genetic/paternity documents on me, I usually just pass.:NoNo:
 
deborahbroadus said:
I understand your concerns. I agree that it's wise to cover all the bases on your (seller's) end when being on the buyer end. By this, I mean that while in the "buyer" mode, one needs to be aware of how they will be able to move the animal later and having a SIGNED document is something that one can refer to and is not likely to be labled a "forgery" as it can be verified.

What do you think the buyer can do to make you a satisfied customer? Do you need more history on the animal's document and a signature? Can you outline exactly what you want on the document? Is the seller willing to create another document that would satisfy the buyer?

**Personally, when buying an animal (BP) if there's a signed document, I usually contact the original seller to verify that he did sell the animal and the documents are not forged, before making a purchase. If someone is trying to pawn unsigned genetic/paternity documents on me, I usually just pass.:NoNo:
Click to expand...

I agree, though I get the feeling Al just forgot to sign the doc. he sent. It seems that is the main problem now. Another SIGNED document, and this should be taken care of IMO.
 
My honest opinion, that's what most people get in the ball python world (unfortunately), however, not eveyone leaves the bar there. I've received great paperwork, average paperwork, and sometimes below.

Great paperwork keeps me as a repeat customer. Subpar paperwork varies depending on how well I know the breeder. Crappy paperwork will never see another dime from me and if I eventually resell the animal, I will give them that sheet FWIW, a reduced cost, and my own personal guarantee if it doesn't work out (or sold as a normal). Otherwise, I will prove the animal out and produce my own paperwork and guarantee.

I'm not sure how lineage works with boas though.

Now not having a signature... I don't know Al Brown, at all until today. If I purchased, I would not feel confortable without a signature because I don't know if he would honor something that I could have easily created. I think a signature helps the document carry a significant amount of weight versus a printed Word doc.
 
The info i wanted as lineage is stated above by Al.He did not offer any of this info to me.
The above looks alot more like lineage then 1 photo id of parents.Dont you think?
If Al had sent the above statement of those boa's of Frank Martin and Mr Harmon that came to help Al make these boa's,i would not be in here.!!
That above statement is lineage!!!
 
Get a life

A BOI post calling Al a lier?........ Really?

Rich, If Al tells you it's Easter....dye an egg. I can't believe you called Al a liar publicly over such a trivial issue.....You have just labeled yourself a "BAD BUYER" in my book by posting this thread....
 
Thats ok.I am just about done finishing my collection.Have fun selling to others.Its your right.I wasnt looking to buy from you.
And if Al tells me its easter i'm suppose to believe him huh?How old are you buddy?
If you lie,you get called a liar man,what else can i say.I did not get what he stated he would send!I am not looking for anything extra.Lineage papers and photo id.Thats it!
When people ask for proof its a jungle because i'm new,and i say,i dont have any.Guess what happens,they move on.
Having signed papers and genetics to back it up sells!
Thanks for your special input buddy.
And God Bless??? Are you for real? Christians do not talk to others this way.
 
That looks alot like genetic guarantees I've gotten when buying Balls, but one of mine only had the colors of the parents written out on it under a pic of the snake.
I am too new at getting hets to really know what to expect when it comes to genetic paperwork or lineage paperwork. Wouldn't that be 2 different things? Genetic Just says yeah, this is what it's het for, but wouldn't lineage would go back a certain number of generations? Wouldn't you expect someone who says they've produced X number of generations down to the baby you are buying to be able to supply you with a detailed list of each snake that went into the production of the one you're buying? Not just the parents?

I'd like any imput on that as well for when I begin producing my own. :)
 
It seems to me that maybe the problem here is that there was a miscommunication about what exactly Rich wanted as far as lineage. It doesn't really seem to me like Al intentionally misrepresented the boa, since he posted the info about it in this thread. I would be interested to see the emails that took place after the photo ID was received by Rich. It seems like if that info had been emailed to Rich in the first place this thread could have been avoided.
 
here are the following emails and it ended there.I'm sorry to dog a well know person,but with Als years of experience he knows what lineage papers are! If not,wrong business to be in.
From me of course--And its starts at the bottom of this,sorry.This was my last statement to Al.
I dont need any pics.
Its just a shame that you told me 1 thing and now doing something else man.I see why you say us people from up this way are hard to please.I guess being lied to does that to people Al.
You straight up told me that you were sending me photo id and lineage papers.i'm not sure why you changed your mind about the lineage papers.
I dont like sales pitches or people who lie to me.Its too bad you do business the way you did to me man. I would have been a very good buyer.
Very unhappy costumer.Boa is great and healthy though.


Subject: Re: jungle het lipstick male
To: [email protected]
From: [email protected]
Date: Thu, 27 Oct 2011 22:11:38 +0000

I can send you pix of the albino jungle fathers parents.. To see the females parents you will have to go to peter kahls site... Litter 19 in the boa birthing record for 2006 as it says on the photo id... I won't be able to get you the pics of the albino jungles parents until Monday when I get home from vacation...

Thanks,
Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry
From: not foryou <[email protected]>
Date: Thu, 27 Oct 2011 17:18:01 -0400
To: <[email protected]>
Subject: RE: jungle het lipstick male

Hi Al
What happened to all his lineage papers you promised me.
All you sent was a photo id and i dont really need that part of our deal.I was and stated to you that 1 reason i was buying from you,you were sending me all his lineage back to grand parents or great grand parents.I was counting on these papers.
That is why i didnt want to spend another $500.Not being rude,honestly.
Your email is below stating what i am asking now.
Thanks Al
Rich
Subject: Re: jungle het lipstick male
To: [email protected]
From: [email protected]
Date: Fri, 7 Oct 2011 16:31:13 +0000

T
 
Rich,
In his post, Al indicates that he received your request for the lineage information while on vacation; and that his response was that he would get it together for you when when he got home and could access his computer. Did you receive that message from him?
If so, considering he said he would be home today, posting before 0800 certainly seems like you aren't giving him reasonable time to respond to your request. If email wasn't received, that is a different story.
As a side note, if you are looking for a formal document, as one receives with registered dogs...I'm afraid you are going to be disappointed. There is no central registering agency, no "official" documentation. If Al can give you an accounting of the background/lineage for that boa, my suggestion is to save the email...maybe set up a file that arranges the information in a manner you like, so you can provide that information to a customer that purchases that snake (or one of his offspring).
 
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