HerpVenue
New member
I meant write it in here. Out of the people you have contacted how many is in the body count. No need for names.
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Albino Ball Python Died!!
- Thread starter Adam Block
- Start date
I have no problem with that. So Ritchie is going to ask NERD's competition what do they think about NERD's animals, and they in turn are going to be able to anonymously express their unbiased opinion. Fair enough? 
CheriS
No furry helpless bunny
Sorry, I have to come in here on this.....
Third party post are NOT allowed on BOI, there are good reasons for that...... you think people are going to buy that? People inquire or post good guy/bad guy post, other respond with their knowledge of contact, purchases or sales.
We degrade this to a private conversation with several people who for whatever reason don't want to come here and state their problems or lack of them, this board loses it's whole meaning!
This lets make a deal to get what I want is going to far, it accomplishes or proves nothing...... We'll give you that several people tell you that they had animals they bought from NERDS that died... BIG DEAL! IT HAPPENS! If they want to allude to more, let them present it, otherwise I don't want to hear about rumors. If you gave me 500 peoples name/email/phone and they all said I had animals die I got from God's Natural World Wide Farm, it does not mean anything!!
You said you started this to find if others had a problem, NO ONE has responded on this post that they had. NO ONE!
Most people questioned the age of this baby, Kevin chooses not to answer, that DOES answer for most of us.............. you proved your point there..... Kevin sold babies way to young, people have learned and can decide for themself if they choose to buy from him in the future or have a heads up if they do.
Adam, please just explain the shouse, ball python on the necropsy report and why there is no history listed and show that this was a report of YOUR snake? Answer the questions about YOUR posted necropsy report, you've proved the other point and people are warned, even without the Necropsy....... but YOU did post it and there are some gray areas there.
NO ONE from any conversation can prove fault or liability! The point now is your creditibility from something else, stop pointing and answer the question!
That DOES NOT sound like they have ANY issues buying from them or with their guarantee. If their animals died and they thought it was neglect on Kevin's part, why are they involved in deals with him?
Third party post are NOT allowed on BOI, there are good reasons for that...... you think people are going to buy that? People inquire or post good guy/bad guy post, other respond with their knowledge of contact, purchases or sales.
We degrade this to a private conversation with several people who for whatever reason don't want to come here and state their problems or lack of them, this board loses it's whole meaning!
This lets make a deal to get what I want is going to far, it accomplishes or proves nothing...... We'll give you that several people tell you that they had animals they bought from NERDS that died... BIG DEAL! IT HAPPENS! If they want to allude to more, let them present it, otherwise I don't want to hear about rumors. If you gave me 500 peoples name/email/phone and they all said I had animals die I got from God's Natural World Wide Farm, it does not mean anything!!
You said you started this to find if others had a problem, NO ONE has responded on this post that they had. NO ONE!
Most people questioned the age of this baby, Kevin chooses not to answer, that DOES answer for most of us.............. you proved your point there..... Kevin sold babies way to young, people have learned and can decide for themself if they choose to buy from him in the future or have a heads up if they do.
Adam, please just explain the shouse, ball python on the necropsy report and why there is no history listed and show that this was a report of YOUR snake? Answer the questions about YOUR posted necropsy report, you've proved the other point and people are warned, even without the Necropsy....... but YOU did post it and there are some gray areas there.
NO ONE from any conversation can prove fault or liability! The point now is your creditibility from something else, stop pointing and answer the question!
Adam Block
New member
Well, this will have to take place in a phone call Ritchie. I mean you're welcome to call those twelve people but a phone call may make things a lot easier on you.
Body count:
The entire Burgandy project. I think it was 5+ animals but I put the body count at 2 maybe three outside of the ones Kevin froze off.
Two dead pastel.
The dead albino I'm crying about.
The dead het whatever Rusty had.
Dead Caramel
Three others I won't mention because they would point Kevin at who told me.
An adult Ball again I won't mention the morph as I don't know how many Kevin has sold.
There are a few others eluding me right now but these above are known facts that I've been able to confirm.
You would also have to speak with people asking about hets that didn't turn out to be het for the trait they were sold as.
The reason I mention a phone call may be best to relay this information is there are more incriminating things I haven't mentioned because I don't know the numbers of animals Kevin has sold.
Adam Block
(520) 616-8811
Body count:
The entire Burgandy project. I think it was 5+ animals but I put the body count at 2 maybe three outside of the ones Kevin froze off.
Two dead pastel.
The dead albino I'm crying about.
The dead het whatever Rusty had.
Dead Caramel
Three others I won't mention because they would point Kevin at who told me.
An adult Ball again I won't mention the morph as I don't know how many Kevin has sold.
There are a few others eluding me right now but these above are known facts that I've been able to confirm.
You would also have to speak with people asking about hets that didn't turn out to be het for the trait they were sold as.
The reason I mention a phone call may be best to relay this information is there are more incriminating things I haven't mentioned because I don't know the numbers of animals Kevin has sold.
Adam Block
(520) 616-8811
Adam Block
New member
Cheri, everybody in here is welcome to make the dozen calls it would take to proove what I'm saying is fact. How many of you will be spoken to in trust I can't say but call the dozen people listed as sponcers of the BP classifieds and you'll have your answers.
Third party information is allowed here as a question only. If you put opinion it is not but if you end the fact with a yes or no it's okay.
Adam Block
Third party information is allowed here as a question only. If you put opinion it is not but if you end the fact with a yes or no it's okay.
Adam Block
CheriS
No furry helpless bunny
NO Adam, you just are not getting it.... it means NOTHING in regards to Kevin or NERDS business practices if they can not present evidence that their animals were sick or died as a result of neglect from NERDS. <<<- do any of them prove that? If they do, why are they not speaking out and its not becasue they have BIG bucks tied up in other deals unless they are fools and I have some swamp land to sell them in South FLorida.
It means nothing in relation to your snake.... you proved that the snake was SOLD too young as Kevin will NOT answer that.
That does not get you another snake or discounts, that tells people to BEWARE!!!!!! Your post did serve a purpose, its PROVEN!
But there is the issue if credibility since YOU posted a necropsy that has some questionable things on it.... Please answer this?
It means nothing in relation to your snake.... you proved that the snake was SOLD too young as Kevin will NOT answer that.
That does not get you another snake or discounts, that tells people to BEWARE!!!!!! Your post did serve a purpose, its PROVEN!
But there is the issue if credibility since YOU posted a necropsy that has some questionable things on it.... Please answer this?
Adam Block
New member
The information blacked out on the report is my vets information and the description of the snake. Mainly because I want Kevin to give a date the snake was born before I show what the vets findings were on the age. I will not release the age of the snake until Kevin locks in a hatch date.
As for my vet, I'm not going to have people calling him to address these issues as they're not his issues.
As for Kevins snake dropping over in such huge numbers. It says a lot, how many breeders have that many dead snakes that have come from their business?
Bob Clark?
Brian Sharp?
Ralph Davis?
Barkers?
Cypress?
Hell I would bet even Glads Herp has a better record then Kevin and that says a lot. Ball pythons aren't easy to kill so some investigating of the breeder is in order.
Adam Block
As for my vet, I'm not going to have people calling him to address these issues as they're not his issues.
As for Kevins snake dropping over in such huge numbers. It says a lot, how many breeders have that many dead snakes that have come from their business?
Bob Clark?
Brian Sharp?
Ralph Davis?
Barkers?
Cypress?
Hell I would bet even Glads Herp has a better record then Kevin and that says a lot. Ball pythons aren't easy to kill so some investigating of the breeder is in order.
Adam Block
ms_terese
Irrelevant User
Doing some math....
If we count 5 for the Burgundy project, the body count is 14.
Can you give a time frame? Is this over the last 6 months? Year? 5 years?
Can you define how soon after sale these animals died? 2 days? 2 months? 2 years?
Can you give the general consensus of what they died from? Dehydration? Starvation? Parasites? Shipping? Someone stepped on them?
I think unless this additional information is given, it will be difficult to get the big picture. 14 snakes is 14 snakes...but if it's 14 out of thousands over the past 2 years, it's nothing.
I'm not trying to bash you on this, Adam, but I think that if you want to give an accurate warning about NERD, you need to give the big picture, even if the names are left out of it.
CheriS, you're not the only one that is anxious to understand the explanation behind that pesky little necropsy, but do you really think that if someone else's necropsy for a different snake was used that it will ever be admitted? Look how long it took to post the first one....how long does it take to cut/paste/fabricate a new piece of paper for scanning?
If we count 5 for the Burgundy project, the body count is 14.
Can you give a time frame? Is this over the last 6 months? Year? 5 years?
Can you define how soon after sale these animals died? 2 days? 2 months? 2 years?
Can you give the general consensus of what they died from? Dehydration? Starvation? Parasites? Shipping? Someone stepped on them?
I think unless this additional information is given, it will be difficult to get the big picture. 14 snakes is 14 snakes...but if it's 14 out of thousands over the past 2 years, it's nothing.
I'm not trying to bash you on this, Adam, but I think that if you want to give an accurate warning about NERD, you need to give the big picture, even if the names are left out of it.
CheriS, you're not the only one that is anxious to understand the explanation behind that pesky little necropsy, but do you really think that if someone else's necropsy for a different snake was used that it will ever be admitted? Look how long it took to post the first one....how long does it take to cut/paste/fabricate a new piece of paper for scanning?
ms_terese
Irrelevant User
Then who is shouse?
Where is your name?
Where is the date of the necropsy?
Adam Block
New member
Okay, I'm not going to lock down time frames on this as I set my words in stone too often and when something falls outside of that it is taken as a lie.
The animals to my knowledge have all died in roughly the last 6 months but we may be looking at a year.
All have died of Parasites although I think I have only heard of a report on roughly half of them.
Shouse is my partner. He had the report sent to him as he has the account with out vet. Can't remember if you asked anything else. As I said the info I blacked out was to either catch Kevin in a lie or hide personal information.
Aslo to establish the cause of death. I'm sure you can all agree it wouldn't have been easy for me to track down a ball that died of gout if I was lying.
It is now clear Kevin will never say the age of the animal as he know that report will catch him in a lie.
Adam Block
The animals to my knowledge have all died in roughly the last 6 months but we may be looking at a year.
All have died of Parasites although I think I have only heard of a report on roughly half of them.
Shouse is my partner. He had the report sent to him as he has the account with out vet. Can't remember if you asked anything else. As I said the info I blacked out was to either catch Kevin in a lie or hide personal information.
Aslo to establish the cause of death. I'm sure you can all agree it wouldn't have been easy for me to track down a ball that died of gout if I was lying.
It is now clear Kevin will never say the age of the animal as he know that report will catch him in a lie.
Adam Block
ms_terese
Irrelevant User
Thank you for the answers, Adam.
When Ritchie makes these calls, will he be allowed to verify the same type of information? (how long the snakes had been in possession, cause of death, etc.?)
Again, I think it's imperative that enough information is gathered to show the big picture.
Shouse, is this the truck driving partner, or a different one?
As for the necropsy......actually, I don't think it would be difficult for you to find a necropsy that shows a ball python died of gout, no. Especially one that doesn't have any descriptive information.
Since it's accepted as fact that Kevin is not going to give additional information on the age of the animal, and I don't think it's a contention that the snake was under 2 months of age when you bought it, is it going to hurt anything for you to release the date of the necropsy and the description of the snake? I understand wanting to keep your vet's name private in consideration of the volatile environment this thread has evoked, but the other information is truly relevant. If you can't do that, is it possible that you release it to Ritchie to examine as well?
When Ritchie makes these calls, will he be allowed to verify the same type of information? (how long the snakes had been in possession, cause of death, etc.?)
Again, I think it's imperative that enough information is gathered to show the big picture.
Shouse, is this the truck driving partner, or a different one?
As for the necropsy......actually, I don't think it would be difficult for you to find a necropsy that shows a ball python died of gout, no. Especially one that doesn't have any descriptive information.
Since it's accepted as fact that Kevin is not going to give additional information on the age of the animal, and I don't think it's a contention that the snake was under 2 months of age when you bought it, is it going to hurt anything for you to release the date of the necropsy and the description of the snake? I understand wanting to keep your vet's name private in consideration of the volatile environment this thread has evoked, but the other information is truly relevant. If you can't do that, is it possible that you release it to Ritchie to examine as well?
Rob @ RK Reptiles
ballpythonmorphs.net
This has gotten OUT OF HAND If Adam can not POST Proof then this issue needs to be put to rest. So Far there has been absolutely NO PROOF posted to substantiate all this BS that adam is spreading around. IF there is documented proof then SHOW IT! if not quit your whining, and move on. I do not think Ritchie phoneing comeone that is in cahoots with Adam will show anything. How is that going to proove it? I can bet that Kevin can get 1000+ people to have Ritchie call that will say thay the animals they bought from them are perfect, healthy, and alive!! This entire BS has got to stop. TO be honest, IMHO I think Adam is having a temper tantrum because he is not getting his way and the only way to stop his games on this site is to Ban him from the site unless he stops. He has proven himself (to me at least via this site) in the past to be dis-honest, untruthful, and unreliable, and his behaviour in this situation has not changed that perspective one bit.
CheriS
No furry helpless bunny
I disagree there: Noah's Archive
OR any University Student or Library that holds teaching documents, which would appear with the names blocked out if they were made for public viewing. I have over 70 actual ones here and books with at least 200 morems_terese you beat me to it.... shouse is the truck driver? shouse is also a professor of biology across the country that also attended the same university the report came from?
Rob, I have to agree with most of what you say that it is out of hand and time to put it to rest.
Final Summary:
Kevin refuses to answer the age of the snake which indicates it was too young and was the first step most likey in its demise
Adam has not and can not prove after subjecting the animal to the same transit stress, that it did not die of him and his parnter actions.
Uffern
Mental Midget
Even if Ritchie Luna will vouch for it, or Webslave, or Honest Abe, third party information is not acceptable as proof for the purposes of this board.
Suncoast Herpetological
Lurking in the Shadows
In 290 posts on two different threads over a period of several days, the only single fact that Adam has been able to prove is that the snake actually died. He has not produced a shred of evidence to back a single accusation he has made.
In that same time period, numerous posters have expressed their opinion of Adams character, veracity, and overall tendancy to twist the truth as he sees fit. I did not notice anyone defending him
Over the same period and number of posts, and 12,565 views to the two threads, the only one who has indicated that they have had anything but a perfect experience when dealing with NERD was Adam's buddy, Rusty.
Sort of makes you think, doesn't it?
In that same time period, numerous posters have expressed their opinion of Adams character, veracity, and overall tendancy to twist the truth as he sees fit. I did not notice anyone defending him
Over the same period and number of posts, and 12,565 views to the two threads, the only one who has indicated that they have had anything but a perfect experience when dealing with NERD was Adam's buddy, Rusty.
Sort of makes you think, doesn't it?
smart_ask
New member
Sorry
Where did I miss the dead snakes proof? Sorry.
Where did I miss the dead snakes proof? Sorry.
HerpVenue
New member
Boy Adam. You honestly almost played me. You honestly almost used me as a tool in your quest to destroy someones Reputation over A SUPPOSED 14 animals.
Up until I read this part.
You mean to tell me that the "Big Name" Breeders who are known for selling QUALITY animals are still continuing to buy QUALITY animals from NERD? Even though they have had animals die? Even though I am sure they know the "rumors" about NERD?
And if his animls are as bad as you say they are...why were you looking for a replacement instead of a refund?
Lets put it this way. All the big named breeders have done hundreds of Deals with NERD. Also NERD has done THOUSANDS of Deals with normal people. And all you have found is fourteen (14) animals that have died?
14/5000 = 0.28% of NERDS animals have died.
Out of the 100-125 deals and sales I have made. I know of two that have died.
2/125 = 1.6% of my animals have died. I am worse than NERD.
your own quote Adam.
Thank you Adam for finally definately putting into my mind that you have nothing but baseless accusations.
[email protected]
http://www.elon.edu/shouse/
Up until I read this part.
You mean to tell me that the "Big Name" Breeders who are known for selling QUALITY animals are still continuing to buy QUALITY animals from NERD? Even though they have had animals die? Even though I am sure they know the "rumors" about NERD?
And if his animls are as bad as you say they are...why were you looking for a replacement instead of a refund?
Lets put it this way. All the big named breeders have done hundreds of Deals with NERD. Also NERD has done THOUSANDS of Deals with normal people. And all you have found is fourteen (14) animals that have died?
14/5000 = 0.28% of NERDS animals have died.
Out of the 100-125 deals and sales I have made. I know of two that have died.
2/125 = 1.6% of my animals have died. I am worse than NERD.
your own quote Adam.
The way I now see it. NERD is doing an EXCELLENT job. They must be, considering you still want an animal from them. They must be, considering the "Big Named Breeders" are still currently as we speak, doing business with him.
Thank you Adam for finally definately putting into my mind that you have nothing but baseless accusations.
Read my signature Adam. I speak for myself and no one else.
interesting. Your ball python did not die of parasites. The het orange ghost never had a report done. So you can't say it died of parasites.
That is a d@mn good vet if he can prove that Kevin is lying about the hatch date. I have never seen a vet that can guess to the day as to when a snake is born.
You mean the guy that is living in North Carolina? The Dean of Elon Univeristy? The Proffesor of Biology? The guy that got his Phd at Uof A?
[email protected]
http://www.elon.edu/shouse/
HerpVenue
New member
It is in my opinion that Adam never got a ball python from NERD. Any fool can make up a story about some invisible truck driver that never existed. Any fool can pretend the non existent animal is dead. Any fool can then go on line and pull up necropsy reports that have the information blocked out.
Why do I say this you ask? Simply look at the links and quote below.
If you follow this first link. posted 9/23/03
http://www.faunaclassifieds.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=7678&perpage=10&pagenumber=2
you will see that Adam does not get snakes from shows. The quote is in bold below.
"To keep that quality I don't do reptile shows, pet stores or allow visitors to my house."
If you follow this second link. posted 9/24/03
http://www.faunaclassifieds.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=7678&perpage=10&pagenumber=3
You will see that Adam has not bought any animals in years. And he has not bought from any "BIG BREEDERS". Again it is in bold
I haven't gotten a new snake in many years and have bought mainly from closet breeders.
Why do I say this you ask? Simply look at the links and quote below.
If you follow this first link. posted 9/23/03
http://www.faunaclassifieds.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=7678&perpage=10&pagenumber=2
you will see that Adam does not get snakes from shows. The quote is in bold below.
"To keep that quality I don't do reptile shows, pet stores or allow visitors to my house."
If you follow this second link. posted 9/24/03
http://www.faunaclassifieds.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=7678&perpage=10&pagenumber=3
You will see that Adam has not bought any animals in years. And he has not bought from any "BIG BREEDERS". Again it is in bold
I haven't gotten a new snake in many years and have bought mainly from closet breeders.
Uffern
Mental Midget
Somehow, I don't think that's the case. Ritchie. I could be wrong. It jsut seems like way too much to go through to either get a het for something, or a discount.
Ken Harbart
New member
I beg to differ on the conclusion drawn. Logically, no conclusion can be drawn as to why Kevin hasn't responded.
Personally, I wouldn't reply if I were Kev. Debating the self-professed "sheep dog" is akin to debating a two-tear old. It is possible that Kev may be choosing to deny Adam the attention that he seems to crave.
One other thing to consider is that time is a precious commodity for both Kevin & Kara, and they don't spend as much time online as they once used to. Kara and I are close friends, but there's times when the best we can manage is a short email every 2-3 weeks.
There's many possible explanations, and it would be irresponsible for us to arbitrarily pick one and say "this is the reason."