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Alex Hue and TNS reptiles
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post what you want Alex, the pics speak for themselves those are REAL DEAL guy im done explaining myself to you. Contradicting or not doesnt make sense to me, those snakes are dead simple. If you wanted the bodies i would of gladly sent them to you. Whether they were rotting outside or in the garbage. Whatever you want like i said ill send them to you right now.
Mike Brooks
Mike Brooks
evansnakes
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Mike, I would like to know in your expert opinion, how you can state as fact here that the ball pythons did not die from your "treatment" of flagyl. As I have worked with both the animals and the drug for 15 years and know for a fact that you are wrong. Since there is not one vet on this planet that would suggest that you dose any animal in such a ridiculous and irresponsible manner as to ensure that there is absolutely no possible way for you to regulate the dosage of a very strong and invasive medication like metronazidole (flagyl), especially on little hatchling snakes. In fact, Flagyl is such a strong and invasive medication that it is very commonly prescribed for humans and is very carefully applied in pharmacies as humans can be killed from overage. I also know this as fact from years of managing retail pharmacies. If you read the label of any flagyl product including pills, suspension or liquid, it very clearly states that there is only one correct way to administer this medication, correctly dosed by weight, and that is oral. Period. Since you also did not have liquid Flagyl as it is illegal in the United States, you must have had the suspension or pills. And since neither of these disolve in water but merely leave little chunks floating in the water, how could you not say that one baby did not get 10 times or even 100 times the dosage of another? You can't.
One other detail that I am having trouble with. Please explain why you have gone from your axanthic being worth $3500 to Alex to $5000 in this thread to $10000 on your website. And why it changed from being a VPI axanthic to a Joliff.
Evan Stahl
One other detail that I am having trouble with. Please explain why you have gone from your axanthic being worth $3500 to Alex to $5000 in this thread to $10000 on your website. And why it changed from being a VPI axanthic to a Joliff.
Evan Stahl
HerpVenue
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No you did not. you said it was from today.
Rob BryertonRKK
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This Sucks
Those poor kids.
This is why I only buy and sell Captive Bred and Born/Hatched snakes.
I have heard too many stories and that pic proves it.
I hope you find out what is killing them so you can save some of them. This is horrible.
Rob
Those poor kids.
This is why I only buy and sell Captive Bred and Born/Hatched snakes.
I have heard too many stories and that pic proves it.
I hope you find out what is killing them so you can save some of them. This is horrible.
Rob
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Evan i never once said it was a VPI axanthic, learn what your speaking about before you type. At different times i wanted different prices for my snake, correct. My website is not finished # 1, #2 that ad is from a while ago and what does it say. JOLLIFF AXANTHIC And ill find out like i said everything you need to know from my vet of how he did everything exaclty. I dont give drugs to my animals i let the expert do it. Understand
Mike Brooks
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http://gallery.pethobbyist.com/index.pl?photo=80798
{Here is another one. 35 last night and 20+ this morning plus im about to go in and pull out some more not to count the ones that went yesterday morning. Whooooo Hooo wish me luck, it stinks in there.}
ITS THE SAME PIC, THIS IS THE POST I PUT ON PAGE 4 EXACTLY. WORD FOR WORD
Mike Brooks
{Here is another one. 35 last night and 20+ this morning plus im about to go in and pull out some more not to count the ones that went yesterday morning. Whooooo Hooo wish me luck, it stinks in there.}
ITS THE SAME PIC, THIS IS THE POST I PUT ON PAGE 4 EXACTLY. WORD FOR WORD
Mike Brooks
OK here goes (this will probably piss some people off, but oh well, I'm good at that)
Mike,
WELCOME TO THE WORLD OF WHOLESALE!
You problem is neither rare or should it be unexpected. You traded for 800 balls at a value of $5 or $5.50, that is wholesale. Wholesale means "as is, where is." I find it funny that you are trying to make it sound like a bad thing that you got to look these animals over before you did the trade. That was a bonus. If he had shipped them to you, you might have a leg to stand on. But now, after admitting that you personally looked these over and then ACCEPTED them, the deal was done at that point.
Farmed balls can go bad at any point. This year they are not looking so good, at least from where I sit. The first ones were healthy, but were finicky eaters. The last few weeks have shown up looking good and started eating fine, but are now doing just what you've seen happen with yours. Some reports say that the ones coming in this week look bad right out of the bag. That's the chance you take when you buy wholesale. That's why they only cost $5!
You stated you were "caring" for over 1000 animals. Let's take a look at that for a sec. Assuming you were giving each animal 3 minutes PER WEEK, not per day, but per week, that would be 50 hours of care time. I have a collection that ranges from about 120-500 animals depending on the time of year, so I know how this works. And even with every animal in it's own cage 3 minutes a week is pushing it. You also stated early you were keeping them "10 per bin" and you felt that was adequate. Sure that'll work, but how exactly are you feeding them? And if they are sick, that sure makes it a lot easier for them to cross-comtaminate each other doesn't it?
The Flagyl/Panacur/I did it/my vet did it/ who the hell knows really doesn't even matter. (Here's where people get pissed) You're right, you would be throwing your money away at this point. Once they start dying, hold on tight and hope for the best. By the time the necropsy is done, it won't matter. The one's that will die will probably be dead before the drugs had a change to work anyway, and that's assuming a lot as well. Might be the necropsy shows nothing, might be is shows a virus (can't treat those), might be it shows a bacterial infection that may or may not respond to drugs, this is wholesale. And before anyone screams "oh but the poor little snakes!" Think people, they shoot horses that are worth thousands of dollars if they break a leg. Why? Because the horse can no longer do what it needs to do. These $5 snakes need to make the wholesalers money. If they spend even $3 per snake w/ the vet then they've just priced themselves out of the business. No to mention, do you realize how long it would take to properly dose and treat the remaining 500-600 animals!!! Sure you take your $3000 albino ball in if it looks at you funny. But this is not the same.
Mike, you got a bad batch of snakes. It sucks A$$! But, it's part of the risk YOU ASSUMED when you went into the wholesale business. In 1998 I sunk what was a lot of money at the time into CH balls. 98% of them died. And that was with veterinary care. All the vet care got me was another handfull of money in the hole. You cannot hold Alex responsible, well that's not entirerly true, you can do whatever you want. But, he most likely knew no more about them when he got them, than you did when you looked them over. There is something going on with the balls coming in this year. Ride it out and hope for the best. If you come out with 200 good ones, save them for a couple of months and then sell them for $20-25 bucks apiece, you'll break even ( money-wise). Sometimes that's not so bad, and this year might be one of those times.
Mike,
WELCOME TO THE WORLD OF WHOLESALE!
You problem is neither rare or should it be unexpected. You traded for 800 balls at a value of $5 or $5.50, that is wholesale. Wholesale means "as is, where is." I find it funny that you are trying to make it sound like a bad thing that you got to look these animals over before you did the trade. That was a bonus. If he had shipped them to you, you might have a leg to stand on. But now, after admitting that you personally looked these over and then ACCEPTED them, the deal was done at that point.
Farmed balls can go bad at any point. This year they are not looking so good, at least from where I sit. The first ones were healthy, but were finicky eaters. The last few weeks have shown up looking good and started eating fine, but are now doing just what you've seen happen with yours. Some reports say that the ones coming in this week look bad right out of the bag. That's the chance you take when you buy wholesale. That's why they only cost $5!
You stated you were "caring" for over 1000 animals. Let's take a look at that for a sec. Assuming you were giving each animal 3 minutes PER WEEK, not per day, but per week, that would be 50 hours of care time. I have a collection that ranges from about 120-500 animals depending on the time of year, so I know how this works. And even with every animal in it's own cage 3 minutes a week is pushing it. You also stated early you were keeping them "10 per bin" and you felt that was adequate. Sure that'll work, but how exactly are you feeding them? And if they are sick, that sure makes it a lot easier for them to cross-comtaminate each other doesn't it?
The Flagyl/Panacur/I did it/my vet did it/ who the hell knows really doesn't even matter. (Here's where people get pissed) You're right, you would be throwing your money away at this point. Once they start dying, hold on tight and hope for the best. By the time the necropsy is done, it won't matter. The one's that will die will probably be dead before the drugs had a change to work anyway, and that's assuming a lot as well. Might be the necropsy shows nothing, might be is shows a virus (can't treat those), might be it shows a bacterial infection that may or may not respond to drugs, this is wholesale. And before anyone screams "oh but the poor little snakes!" Think people, they shoot horses that are worth thousands of dollars if they break a leg. Why? Because the horse can no longer do what it needs to do. These $5 snakes need to make the wholesalers money. If they spend even $3 per snake w/ the vet then they've just priced themselves out of the business. No to mention, do you realize how long it would take to properly dose and treat the remaining 500-600 animals!!! Sure you take your $3000 albino ball in if it looks at you funny. But this is not the same.
Mike, you got a bad batch of snakes. It sucks A$$! But, it's part of the risk YOU ASSUMED when you went into the wholesale business. In 1998 I sunk what was a lot of money at the time into CH balls. 98% of them died. And that was with veterinary care. All the vet care got me was another handfull of money in the hole. You cannot hold Alex responsible, well that's not entirerly true, you can do whatever you want. But, he most likely knew no more about them when he got them, than you did when you looked them over. There is something going on with the balls coming in this year. Ride it out and hope for the best. If you come out with 200 good ones, save them for a couple of months and then sell them for $20-25 bucks apiece, you'll break even ( money-wise). Sometimes that's not so bad, and this year might be one of those times.
herpcondo
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he told me the deal was off and he wasnt doing anything for me MONDAY moring but did we not see that in the beginning of the e-mail? Because i told him "he better have my axanthic in good shape because his s**t sucks " thats why i didnt ship them on monday because he said right in the e-mail that he is not not doing anything for me because of that comment. That was Monday morning before i would of had a chance to ship.
Mike Brooks
Mike Brooks
Hues1
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Mike
Didnt you post on the earlier thread that the reptiles were a full time business for you when someone asked how much time you had to care for this many animals ?????
And then today you post that you check them before going to work and then check them again after work ???
I know when I asked you what you did.......you stated to me that all you did were reptiles and that was your living.
I've had over 5,000 babies pass through here this year and have not had anybody with this problem.
The 75 replacements I sent you were here for 3-4 weeks and were all feeding...they were from my 2nd. shipment which were a different batch then the 800 you originally received, of which you stated just about 1/2 were dead. Why didnt you send me pics then to prove that they arrived dead ????? Yet you had the time to call and e-mail me ranting and raving???why is this the 1st. time any pics have been produced if you said that they were dieing within hrs. of me leaving ??? Why didnt you take pics then ???
Didnt you post on the earlier thread that the reptiles were a full time business for you when someone asked how much time you had to care for this many animals ?????
And then today you post that you check them before going to work and then check them again after work ???
I know when I asked you what you did.......you stated to me that all you did were reptiles and that was your living.
I've had over 5,000 babies pass through here this year and have not had anybody with this problem.
The 75 replacements I sent you were here for 3-4 weeks and were all feeding...they were from my 2nd. shipment which were a different batch then the 800 you originally received, of which you stated just about 1/2 were dead. Why didnt you send me pics then to prove that they arrived dead ????? Yet you had the time to call and e-mail me ranting and raving???why is this the 1st. time any pics have been produced if you said that they were dieing within hrs. of me leaving ??? Why didnt you take pics then ???
evansnakes
New member
Mike, I know exactly what I am talking about. You can get defensive and attack me all you want. It does not change facts. You have just blatantly lied. In the thread that existed earlier you said clearly the YOU soaked the snakes in a "cocktail" which does mean multiple drugs by the way, since you also argued later that it does not.
I have talked to Alex. You told him before the deal that it was a VPI axanthic. When he came to get it it was a Joliff axanthic. You are saying that the website is correct and it says that animal is a Joliff axanthic, then you have lied at least two more times. On your site you state that it was sold for $10,000 which it was not. And you state it as being 2-3 times the body weight/size that it is.
All it takes is an eye for detail to see so many holes in your info. Also, some comments made earlier were correct. An animal does not disintegrate or discolor that quickly after death unless it is at extremely hot temps.
You can debate facts with me all you want Mike, but I do know about ball pythons and medications. I am a pro and treat animals myself. I understand the drugs and how to use them. You are contradicting yourself from your earlier thread. You must have thought nobody read it before it was gone.
Mike, could you also please explain to me why there is a thread on this board, started by your girlfriend, pretending to be a satisfied customer posting a positive comment about you?
Evan Stahl
I have talked to Alex. You told him before the deal that it was a VPI axanthic. When he came to get it it was a Joliff axanthic. You are saying that the website is correct and it says that animal is a Joliff axanthic, then you have lied at least two more times. On your site you state that it was sold for $10,000 which it was not. And you state it as being 2-3 times the body weight/size that it is.
All it takes is an eye for detail to see so many holes in your info. Also, some comments made earlier were correct. An animal does not disintegrate or discolor that quickly after death unless it is at extremely hot temps.
You can debate facts with me all you want Mike, but I do know about ball pythons and medications. I am a pro and treat animals myself. I understand the drugs and how to use them. You are contradicting yourself from your earlier thread. You must have thought nobody read it before it was gone.
Mike, could you also please explain to me why there is a thread on this board, started by your girlfriend, pretending to be a satisfied customer posting a positive comment about you?
Evan Stahl
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Brian,
Your correct in everything you said except the time thing. But besides looking every minute of my life under a microscope everything else is correct. I did get a bad bunch of snake your correct and that is wholesale. BUT if Mr. Hue would of got that axanthic down the street he would of been on my door as soon as that thing croaked and i would of replaced it hands down. The world of wholesale does infact entail animals dropping dead and i understand that. Accountability is the problem here, he said he would make good on it and wanted me to ship. Then sent me an e-mail not to because of my comment Monday moring.
Mike Brooks
Your correct in everything you said except the time thing. But besides looking every minute of my life under a microscope everything else is correct. I did get a bad bunch of snake your correct and that is wholesale. BUT if Mr. Hue would of got that axanthic down the street he would of been on my door as soon as that thing croaked and i would of replaced it hands down. The world of wholesale does infact entail animals dropping dead and i understand that. Accountability is the problem here, he said he would make good on it and wanted me to ship. Then sent me an e-mail not to because of my comment Monday moring.
Mike Brooks
HerpVenue
New member
I did not ralize this earlier.
Flagyl?
As in metronazidole?
And you were soaking them in it?
Do this little experiment.
Take some Cherry gatoraide or cherry pedialite. Soak your snake for an hour. Then tell me what color your snake is at the end of that hour.
My point. They soak that stuff right up. You were soaking your snakes in metronidazole. They were also probably drinking that stuff up too.
You might have had multiple snakes dying on you.....But I think you might have done the rest of them in.
Flagyl?
As in metronazidole?
And you were soaking them in it?
Do this little experiment.
Take some Cherry gatoraide or cherry pedialite. Soak your snake for an hour. Then tell me what color your snake is at the end of that hour.
My point. They soak that stuff right up. You were soaking your snakes in metronidazole. They were also probably drinking that stuff up too.
You might have had multiple snakes dying on you.....But I think you might have done the rest of them in.
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Evan and Alex,
Please tell me when i sent you that pic of the snake on my website what does it say. JOLLIFF AXANTHIC, Alex the guy who is buying the snake knows exaclty what it is as well doesnt he? Yes he does because he knew what he was buying before you had it in your hands. Alex the only pic you ever got of the snake was from that website JOLLIFF AXANTHIC the same one ive had posted for MONTHS that everyone in in the world has seen. So please tell the truth here. As far as other things about what i do for a living is irrelevant. The snakes are dead SIMPLE. Now please tell everyone that the guy BUYING the snake didnt know what it was before hand? BECAUSE HE DID AND YOU KNOW HE DID BUT I WONT BRING HIM INTO THIS BECAUSE OF RESPECT FOR YOU AS OF NOW.
MIKE BROOKS
Please tell me when i sent you that pic of the snake on my website what does it say. JOLLIFF AXANTHIC, Alex the guy who is buying the snake knows exaclty what it is as well doesnt he? Yes he does because he knew what he was buying before you had it in your hands. Alex the only pic you ever got of the snake was from that website JOLLIFF AXANTHIC the same one ive had posted for MONTHS that everyone in in the world has seen. So please tell the truth here. As far as other things about what i do for a living is irrelevant. The snakes are dead SIMPLE. Now please tell everyone that the guy BUYING the snake didnt know what it was before hand? BECAUSE HE DID AND YOU KNOW HE DID BUT I WONT BRING HIM INTO THIS BECAUSE OF RESPECT FOR YOU AS OF NOW.
MIKE BROOKS
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ONCE AGAIN POEPLE ILL FIND OUT EXACLTY WHAT HE DID WITH THEM. BUT ILL FIND OUT FOR YOU FIRST THING TOMORROW SO YOU HAVE SOMETHING TO ARGUE WITH ME FOR A MINUTE AND TRY TO GIVE ME A REASON WHY ALL THESE SNAKES ARE DEAD.
MIKE BROOKS
MIKE BROOKS
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ONE MORE THING BEFORE I GO CLEAN SOME MORE DEAD, TIME THING IS GOING NOWHERE BECAUSE ITS NOT A FACTOR. THATS YOUR ARGUEMENT IS THAT I WOULDNT HAVE ENOUGH TIME TO CLEAN THESE THINGS? THOSE SNAKES ARE DEAD! ALL THE TIME IN THE WORLD COUDLNT HELP THEM NOW
MIKE BROOKS
MIKE BROOKS
evansnakes
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100% correct Ritchie! Every single detail about that is wrong and would destroy the animals that is why Mike is now changing his story and saying that it did not happen even though he very clearly stated earlier that it did.
Also Mike, maybe this something you just don't have the experience or a good enough vet to know, but you do not treat baby ball pythons with flagyl at all. Every major ball python breeder and dealer in this country pretty much, deals with volumes of baby balls each year. Nobody uses flagyl on them. I'll tell you why 1) 99.9% of them have no need for it 2) it is too rough a treatment for any baby that is stressed, you keep them for months and get them hydrated and fed and then when they have sufficient body weight to handle it, you can flagyl them if you like even though they don't need it. 3) just between myself and 1 of my friends, we have had over 15,000 baby balls the past couple seasons. I have been buying farmed baby African balls since 1990. I have never had more than 2-3% loss in any season. Also, we have never flagyled any of the animals and I have many here from last year, the year before, the year before and none of them have internal parasites. 4) it dehydrates the animals and the thing that kills the most baby balls each year is dehydration. So why would I treat them for parasites they don't have, especially with a medication that dehydrates them and is hard on their organs?
Evan Stahl
Also Mike, maybe this something you just don't have the experience or a good enough vet to know, but you do not treat baby ball pythons with flagyl at all. Every major ball python breeder and dealer in this country pretty much, deals with volumes of baby balls each year. Nobody uses flagyl on them. I'll tell you why 1) 99.9% of them have no need for it 2) it is too rough a treatment for any baby that is stressed, you keep them for months and get them hydrated and fed and then when they have sufficient body weight to handle it, you can flagyl them if you like even though they don't need it. 3) just between myself and 1 of my friends, we have had over 15,000 baby balls the past couple seasons. I have been buying farmed baby African balls since 1990. I have never had more than 2-3% loss in any season. Also, we have never flagyled any of the animals and I have many here from last year, the year before, the year before and none of them have internal parasites. 4) it dehydrates the animals and the thing that kills the most baby balls each year is dehydration. So why would I treat them for parasites they don't have, especially with a medication that dehydrates them and is hard on their organs?
Evan Stahl
Mike, the difference would be, that you got retail value for your snake. $4000 is retail for that animal. He got wholesale value for the balls. Had all the balls been great, and you been able to turn them out at retail, you would have gotten the better end of this deal. Even at low retail of $20 per snake you were lookking at $16,000 for a $4000 dollar animal.
Now, as far as moving forward. You need to separate those animals. I know that's probably not possible, but do as much as you can. The longer you "bin them" the more you will have that die.
One other thing, you've really typed yourself into the corner with the Flagyl thing. That story has more holes that the Titanic. You were pissed, I think everyone here can understand that. I know I can. And you wanted to make this story as bad as possible, but it's time to come clean and just admit what happened. $hit happens, you're not going to come out $12,000 grand ahead on this. Learn from it, and move on.
Now, as far as moving forward. You need to separate those animals. I know that's probably not possible, but do as much as you can. The longer you "bin them" the more you will have that die.
One other thing, you've really typed yourself into the corner with the Flagyl thing. That story has more holes that the Titanic. You were pissed, I think everyone here can understand that. I know I can. And you wanted to make this story as bad as possible, but it's time to come clean and just admit what happened. $hit happens, you're not going to come out $12,000 grand ahead on this. Learn from it, and move on.
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NOW ALEX AND EVAN PLEASE TELL ME THAT ON MY SITE OR AM I GOING TO HAVE TO POST THE AD THAT IT DOESNT SAY BIGGER THEN ANYTHING THAT THE SNAKE IS NOT AN JOLLIFF AXANTHIC? AND TELL ME THAT GUY WHO WAS BUYING DIDNT KNOW IT WASNT? TELL ME SO I CAN PROVE YOU WRONG. BECAUSE IF YOU WANT I CAN POST THE AD THAT I SENT YOU ONCE I TALK TO MY WEBSITE GUY TOMORROW AND EVERYONE CAN SEE WHAT AD I SENT YOU AND EVERYONE WILL REMEMBER AND I CAN REFRESH YOUR MEMORY AS WELL
MIKE BROOKS
MIKE BROOKS