Allen Belcher / Big Daddy's Wholesale ... WARNING

[Griz]

You say that, Griz, but BOI threads always take twists and turns and many times get completely off topic. Like it is now.
What if (and believe I do not believe this is what has happened) Bryon has an axe to grind with Allen and set-up the whole thing. The direction of this thread would turn pretty fast. The point is you don't know what direction to take until you try them all. Jim's stance certainly isn't popular but I can't see banning him from anyone's friendship list for it. If I only had friends that agreed with me I don't think it would be a very long list, and I probably wouldn't like the guy or gal.

I agree with you! But, at some point there has to be a line drawn in the sand. I know Justin was kidding but he was alluding to requiring copies of Bryon's cell phone records so that we, the people here at Fauna, could determine if he was a bad employee or a good one. I'm sorry but we, again myself included, overstep our bounds sometimes and cross the lines of common decency.

Griz

Griz

 

[Chameleon Company]

Griz, we have some agreements ...

Griz says:
When looking at the value of our time, I often see forums such as these as a huge detriment to society. Sure they are fun and often times serve a purpose, but if we were to spend half the time volunteering that we spend here then wouldn't we all be in a better place.........

Anyways, I digress......

After this post, my crickest are screaming for work, so to the relief of many, I will be silent for some time.

My issues with Bryon are serious. I think that I am well within BOI rules to question his actions surrounding the event which he turned into a BOI thread. Sure, I could start a new one, but happen to think that these issues cast doubt on the extent of his believability, and if not, are still properly addressed here. Judge it as you will, but Here's my biggest problem:

Bryon, you acknowledged in an earlier post that you had had some contact with customers of Allen's initiated by you, either linking them to this thread or informing them of your concerns, after you left his employment.

1) You were once a satisfied long-term customer of Allen's. Did you make a customer list based on your interactions with customer's of Allen, while you were an employee?

2) Did you take or copy information from any customer lists that you may have had access to, either electronically or via more physical means, with the intent of contacting those people in order to enlighten them as to Allen's true husbandry shortcomings?

3) While Friday was your last day at Allen's (no one knew but you, BTW), did you email Allen Friday night requesting information about his upcoming shows? BTW, neglecting to then inform Allen that you were no longer an employee?

4) Were you provided the information the following morning via email by Allen.

5) Was Allen's first knowledge that you were no longer an employee the posting of the thread at 11PM Saturday night (I believe you already answered that, but its here for the viewer).

6) How many customers, business associates, etc, did you contact by any means, email, phone call, etc, and either inform them of this thread, or just provide information incriminating about Allen to?

I believe that Allen owns and operates a pet store. He also has other businesses. To include being a long-term reptile and amphibian supplier in his region. He has long-term satisfied customers. If it was just a BOI thread, and they came upon it, such is the BOI. You only wanted to improve the condition of the animals, and protect customers. Maybe you thought you were only providing his existing satisfied customers with information they had to have. Bryon, there is already a growing body of hard evidence. If you did all of the above, many here may still agree with your actions in total. I just don't.

BTW, I never knew Allen before yesterday. Dittos for you Bryon, although we have participated in the same threads here. I did find out yesterday though, that Allen and I have mutual customers. Call it a connection if you will. It has been a source of information.

Maybe just in my eyes, but Bryon's actions (above and otherwise) make me take all his posts with a bigger grain of salt than most. Still straight-faced when I say that I wish him well.

 

[Fedawg]

It is amazing to me the some are ready to hang Jim for offering different approach to this. I've been reading BOI threads for about a year now and often times I've seen where everyone backs the original poster until someone asks a seemingly off the wall question. Then, with more digging, it turns out that it wasn't so black and white after all, and sometimes the original poster is actually the bad guy.

I am certainly not saying that is the case here but discovering all the facts is what an inquiry is all about.

You think its bad that we go after JIm for a different approach??????

Do yourself a favor and read my posts on the Weissman thread , and see how Jim treated me.

 

[big daddy's wholesal]

The animal control supervisor came out and inspected my facility and found NO infractions. Here is his name and phone number which he has given me permission to post for anyone who would like to contact him to verify this information.
David Pate 334-291-4847 work

 

[hers]

If that is true, of course they found nothing, you had ample warning to clean it up!

 

[Scott Ashton]

If that is true, of course they found nothing, you had ample warning to clean it up!

Good point Lori.

Besides, how do we know that you don't have a prior relationship with Mr. Pate?

 

[Casey Hulse]

If that is true, of course they found nothing, you had ample warning to clean it up!

3 days to clean up is ample time, and Bryon was an employee for 6 weeks?

 

[Bill & Amy]

The animal control supervisor came out and inspected my facility and found NO infractions. Here is his name and phone number which he has given me permission to post for anyone who would like to contact him to verify this information.
David Pate 334-291-4847 work

I assume Mr. Pate wouldn't like 100 phone calls on this. So I will ask this has anyone already or will someone volunteer to call Mr. Pate and ask him if he has any knowledge on the husbandry, quarantine and health of reptiles

 

[Scott Ashton]

3 days to clean up is ample time, and Bryon was an employee for 6 weeks?

Given what's at stake - I'd have every one of my sewer, pet store, and party jumper employees - plus family in there cleaning.

 

[Bill & Amy]

3 days to clean up is ample time, and Bryon was an employee for 6 weeks?

Depends were there any employees being pulled off other jobs and getting overtime to come and pitch in? I guess we don't know. How many employees does it take to clean a shop in three days?

I'm just glad it finally got cleaned.

 

[hers]

3 days to clean up is ample time, and Bryon was an employee for 6 weeks?

Yep, like everyone said, you don't know how many people he had helping him, plus, if I were in his shoes and stood to loose everything, you can bet I would be pulling some all nighters to get it done no matter what. And again, Bryon was put on other jobs instead of cage cleaning, much to his dismay - did you read the entire thread?

If this is in fact true, I am glad to know the animals aren't suffering any longer. Now, the big question is, how long will it last and does it even matter at this point? I know we will never be purchasing anything from him, how about you guys?

 

[Chameleon Company]

Lori, I have no trouble with those who feel as you do:

I know we will never be purchasing anything from him, how about you guys?

Some of us might look at potential employees with a better eye as well now, eh? Of course, some readers here may still do business with Allen, and some may extend job offers to Bryon !

 

[norsmis]

Some of us might look at potential employees with a better eye as well now, eh? Of course, some readers here may still do business with Allen, and some may extend job offers to Bryon !

I don't think I will be doing either.....

 

[Ron Billingsley]

I have a question.... what is a party jumper?

 

[hers]

Just an assumption here, but I think it is those giant playthings filled with air for kids' birthday parties.

 

[Scott Ashton]

I have a question.... what is a party jumper?

See attached.

 

[screamdreams]

Cheese & Rice!!

I can't believe I actually sat down to catch up on this thread. I am officially stupid now.

Not a single one of what I would call significant questions have been answered from my previous post about 20 pages ago. Nonsense runneth over on this one.

I'm sure you're all going to be broken hearted but I obviously need a break from this place, no - not this place, but some people who live here.

 

[Zoo Supply]

You know...so many times on the boi, personal attacks take away from the original thread, people get on vendettas, and a lot is lost along the way.
Can we go back and take a look at what is at the core of the complaint?
An employee felt things were not as they should be at his employment. Now do not get things muddled by thinking about if he handled this the right way. He did or he didn't, that is an opinion we all have. Facts are facts. The simple fact is, these animals cannot take care of themselves. Big daddy's wholesale is solely responsible for the animals in their care.
Ultimately Allen is responsible for their care. If Bryon wasn't doing his job, then Bryon should have been fired.
As an employer, we hire people that we feel will be good employees. They should be hard working, and give us the most bang for our buck. I do not expect someone to stay till midnight without pay if it needs to be done, nor is anyone else LEGALLY obligated to work without pay, so those arguements hold now water.
So lets take one more look at this.
Animals not kept right.....who is ultimately responsible...>>>>> OWNER OF BIG DADDY'S WHOLESALE.
Too bad DNR found the place clean, I personally would have gone to them without saying a word to anyone else....but thats not how it happened.
TOM

 

[screamdreams]

Thanks Tom...I needed that.

A post that actually had substance

I might just keep hangin' around here if we keep getting posts like this...lol...

 

[Chameleon Company]

Tom, IMO of course ...

I agree with all of your post that concludes that the ultimate responsiblity is the owner/manager's, etc. To many of us, as you know, this thread, and others in the BOI, are not as cut and dry as:

You know...so many times on the boi, personal attacks take away from the original thread, people get on vendettas

I agree. Many of us feel that Bryon's actions and motives are absolutely integral to the thread, and more than a few personal attacks have been leveled at us for having that opinion. Is that what you meant And if the thread started with some degree of vendetta? If the thread starter has a motive beyond his or her stated intentions, or acts in a way that many of us would feel is significanlty less than honorable, it matters. To us, it means we can't take the accuser verbatim. It may matter not to others here, and that is fine. But so many in this thread have had a very difficult time respecting the values of others as they have been applied here. I do wish that Bryon had handled it more cleanly than he did, and think it would have been easy if it were in his heart to have some semblance of the Golden Rule in his approach to this. But 80% "pro-Bryon verbatim" isn't enough, with only 20% saying "wait a minute"? In less than 72 hours since the start of the thread, we've had the state inspect the place ..... that's a diversion? At least a half-dozen of us are now skeptical of Bryon, and that is wrong? I'm not saying he's lying ... never even suggested it. But some spin? What a concept!

I am puzzled by so many that actually fein disappointment that Allen had the State Authorities in there in less than two business days, and passed? With regard to your saying this, can you tell me what you would have rather happened at this point in time?

Too bad DNR found the place clean. I personally would have gone to them without saying a word to anyone else....but thats not how it happened.

My impression is that you would have preferred that they reported back that the place was dirty, or needed to be shut down? What's wrong with them just calling it as they see it? There are a few of us that believe that the actual state of things was somewhere between what the two opposing parties claimed. Like the latter part of your statement, I would have preferred the objective views of DNR last week as well. Bryon chose a different means. I don't have an answer, but have "wondered why" at more than one of his choices.