Allen Belcher / Big Daddy's Wholesale ... WARNING

[hhmoore]

I can't believe I didn't mention this earlier. It was on the police report, however. The markings just say "AKB 56484", my initials and zipcode..

If you use the standard order (first, middle, last), it would appear that you have been omitting your last name from your posts - full names are required to all posts on the BOI (which I believe you referenced in one of the other threads you posted to). Your anticipated compliance with that rule is appreciated.

 

[HiddenHollowHerp]

My apologies, Mr. Moore. I'll poke around and see if I can figure out how to change it. Thanks for the heads up!

 

[Gecko_Den]

RJK890 in 5..4..3..2..1

 

[RJK890]

Quote GekoDen:
You need a new bank, $100 daily limit?

Yeah, the limit is $100. for ATM machines and gasoline pumps. I guess that is just standard security settings with my account and I never saw a need to try and have it changed.
I have not used it to make any other purchases yet, so I don't know if it is different for online shopping or not.

 

[Ed Clark]

I have had three positive transactions with Allen now. Two of them have already been shared. The last one was in July.
I had filled up my vehicle with gas and was driving over to Panama City, Florida to meet Allen for a trade. About 45 minutes into the trip I had car trouble and had to turn around and go home. I called my Dad and told him what was going on, and also asked if I could borrow his van for the trip. He said that it was no problem and that him and my 5yr old brother would take the ride with me.
Allen drove an extra hour and a half to meet me because his son had a softball game that afternoon in Panama City and he could not pull over and wait for me to get to the agreed upon meeting place, and I was way behind schedule.
Between gassing up my vehicle and then my fathers van I had reached the $100. daily limit on my debit card, and between my father and I we had just $15. cash on us, and 1/4 tank of gas.
When we met Allen to exchange animals he asked me how much gas it took to get there. I told him that I had put $60. in my Dads van and had just under 1/4 of a tank left. He pulled out a $100. bill and gave it to me.
We had never agreed for him to pay my gas, and I did not tell him that I did not have enough gas to get all the way home.
I traded Allen a 1400g .1 Albino (that I had gotten from him in our last trade) and another 450g .1 Albino for an early 08' 1. Pied, and a June hatch .1 Spider.
The 1. Pied is now 500g, and the .1 Spider is 300g. Both animals are healthy and thriving.

Robert, is cheap price so important to you that you would risk buying an expensive ball python morph that lives under these conditions?

A group of different morphs living in their own urine and crap!

 

[Cat_72]

And Myotis (I love bats), the show I am referring to was little more than a group of breeders who got together in the park with folding tables and whatnot. It was four or five years ago, and from what I understand, it was short and unproductive. I didn't buy anything there, nor did any of my friends. I was living in the area at the time and saw the gathering and got curious. I heard a rumor (from an aquaintance) that the breeders were asked to leave the premesis because they hadn't gotten the city's permission to use the area to sell their products. I can't say much about what exactly happened, because as I said, I was there for a very short amount of time, and I became disgusted and left.

That was the only show in Minnesota I have ever been to in my life.

Rofl.
Yes, he was there, or I wouldn't have posted it here (obviously). He had ball hatchlings for $10 a piece, and they didn't look like they'd eaten yet (to me).

Not defending Allen in any way, shape, or form here.....but you are 100% certain that it was Allen??? I do find it hard to believe that he would travel all the way from Georgia to Minnesota to sit at a card table in a park and sell hatchlings for $10 apiece.

As far as our buddy Rob (RJK890), we've already established long ago that it's all about the $$$ with him....no matter how many people would post pics of Allens animals covered in poo, or describe the sickly poor quality hatchlings they've seen Allen unloading at shows, he doesn't care, as long as he's getting a "good deal".

 

[RJK890]

Please

Quote Cat72:
As far as our buddy Rob (RJK890), we've already established long ago that it's all about the $$$ with him....no matter how many people would post pics of Allens animals covered in poo, or describe the sickly poor quality hatchlings they've seen Allen unloading at shows, he doesn't care, as long as he's getting a "good deal".

Yeah, it's all about the money with me
My first transaction with Allen was when I decided to work with BP's instead of BCI. I traded Allen my BCI collection for BP's. I went through the BP classifieds on KS and offered my BCI in trade to anyone with BP's I was interested in.
My second transaction was when I traded Allen the 1.Bee het O.G, and .2 Pastel het O.G that I had got from him in the first trade, for a PB 1.Spider and an Adult .1 Albino. Do you have any idea how many other people would have been interested in hets that I had gotten from Allen without papers?
The last transaction was when I traded him the 1400g .1 Albino and another 650g .1 Albino for an 08' 1. Pied and an 08' .1 Spider.
Where is the "good deal?" Every one of our trade deals were in his favor when it came to the $$$. I just got animals that took me in the direction I wanted to go with my collection.
I have never made a cash purchase from Allen. He does have some nice animals but his prices are a little too high.

Just how many people have posted pics of Allens animals covered in poo? Oh yeah, One.
I went to Allens facility and saw the current condition his animals are kept in. His place was clean and so were his enclosures. There was one animal per enclosure, except the breeding pairs. The bedding was clean and each enclosure had clean water.

You are right though. I don't care if someone comes on here and describes the condition of some "poor sickly" hatchlings that Allen may have had at a show years ago.
There is a market for $8 -$10 CH import hatchlings. Why, I don't know, but there is. As long as he is accurately representing his animals, who cares? Someone got upset because they were trying to sell CBB normals for $20 at a show and Allen was selling CH hatchlings for $8 -$10 at the table next to him, and people were buying Allens snakes. Get over it. Either be happy selling to the people who prefer CBB, and let him have the CH market, drop the price on your animals, or start selling CH hatchlings for $8 -$10.

 

[RJK890]

Quote Ed Clark:
Robert, is cheap price so important to you that you would risk buying an expensive ball python morph that lives under these conditions?

Ed, first of all, I went to Allen's facility and saw the conditions that the animals I traded for were kept in. They were clean.
Secondly, I have made three trade deals with Allen where the cash value was in his favor. So No, it is not all about the cheap prices.

I understand that you and Allen are having a pissing match here in the BOI but why are you fing with me? I am not the one that was flipping $10k purchases from Allen, you are.

I am not sure that someone posting positive feedback from a transaction with you would be treated any better than someone posting positive feedback from a transaction with Allen.
I would purchase from you if you had something I was looking for at a reasonable price even though you have like 10 "Bad Guy" threads. Even though you have not handled them properly, I don't think they had enough merrit to them to put you on a black list.

 

[HiddenHollowHerp]

Not positive it was Allen. Didn't see his name anywhere. Dunno what he looks like..

The table had a piece of folded tagboard (like a sign) that said "BIG DADDY" on it. I only assumed it was the same fella.

The table only had normal BPs.. No other herps of any kind. And they were all hatchlings in delicups without substrate/paper. I had come to the assumption that there were Midwest people selling Allen's critters for him. Maybe he'll comment, I dunno.

There is a market for cheap (ill, dying, inbred, etc.) hatchlings because inexperienced owners don't know what a healthy snake looks like. I can attest to this myself. My first snake was an imported BP hatchling. Mine was $126, but hell, I thought that was cheap! I didn't know anything about anything. This snake lived in a glass tank with a blanket and a (hotter than hell) infrared lamp. It was never done shedding.. It always had 3-4 sheds' worth of caps over its eyes, and I thought it was just fine and dandy!

When beginners see two snakes side by side, they haven't got a clue as to which one is healthier. They don't know the signs. With today's pets, people think every living thing needs to be on a diet. They see a well-fed snake next to a slender one, they take the slender one. They see a snake with 'prety blu eyez' and that's the first one they grab. What we need to work on is educating people as to what a healthy animal looks like. That way, there will be no market (for sick animals), because there will be no customers to support it.

...I have to apologize. That rant was completely irrelevent. Still.. I can't make myself delete it..

 

[big daddy's wholesal]

Never been there.
Allen Belcher 706-615-4772

 

[Tim Cole]

Not positive it was Allen. Didn't see his name anywhere. Dunno what he looks like..

The table had a piece of folded tagboard (like a sign) that said "BIG DADDY" on it. I only assumed it was the same fella.

The table only had normal BPs.. No other herps of any kind. And they were all hatchlings in delicups without substrate/paper. I had come to the assumption that there were Midwest people selling Allen's critters for him. Maybe he'll comment, I dunno.

There is a market for cheap (ill, dying, inbred, etc.) hatchlings because inexperienced owners don't know what a healthy snake looks like. I can attest to this myself. My first snake was an imported BP hatchling. Mine was $126, but hell, I thought that was cheap! I didn't know anything about anything. This snake lived in a glass tank with a blanket and a (hotter than hell) infrared lamp. It was never done shedding.. It always had 3-4 sheds' worth of caps over its eyes, and I thought it was just fine and dandy!

When beginners see two snakes side by side, they haven't got a clue as to which one is healthier. They don't know the signs. With today's pets, people think every living thing needs to be on a diet. They see a well-fed snake next to a slender one, they take the slender one. They see a snake with 'prety blu eyez' and that's the first one they grab. What we need to work on is educating people as to what a healthy animal looks like. That way, there will be no market (for sick animals), because there will be no customers to support it.

...I have to apologize. That rant was completely irrelevent. Still.. I can't make myself delete it..

Unfortunately, we have a store here in Austin Texas that makes their money on these kind of ignorant people.

 

[Cat_72]

As long as he is accurately representing his animals, who cares?

So does that apply to when he was selling normals as hets?

 

[aleria]

My first snake was an imported BP hatchling. Mine was $126, but hell, I thought that was cheap! I didn't know anything about anything. This snake lived in a glass tank with a blanket and a (hotter than hell) infrared lamp. It was never done shedding.. It always had 3-4 sheds' worth of caps over its eyes, and I thought it was just fine and dandy!

When beginners see two snakes side by side, they haven't got a clue as to which one is healthier. They don't know the signs. With today's pets, people think every living thing needs to be on a diet. They see a well-fed snake next to a slender one, they take the slender one. They see a snake with 'prety blu eyez' and that's the first one they grab. What we need to work on is educating people as to what a healthy animal looks like. That way, there will be no market (for sick animals), because there will be no customers to support it.

For the most part I have just been a lurker here on the BOI to stay up to date on all of the good and bad situations out there. But this part of this post in particular just really got to me. To classify "beginners" so generally as being that completely naive, ignorant and down right stupid is entirely off base.
Yes unfortunately 90+% of beginners out there are just that stupid, but to correct the statement it should be most beginners. I for one, at 10 years old no less, was no where near that stupid. The day I decided I had to have my first BP I did months of research prior to my purchase, built my own enclosure(with my dad's help), and made sure to have everything setup and tested prior to purchase, and no this was not because of parents with any knowledge of reptiles, or the fact that they didn't think I could handle it. Which is why today, that snake is still alive and healthy.
Starting out as you did, as a "beginner", I really feel sorry for that snake. It is good to admit to ignorant mistakes but playing it as lightly as you seemed to in that post just irks me. That type of behavior is far from excusable no matter what the circumstances. Age or previous experience matter not, simple research and education by ones own choice of any subject matter shouldn't be the exception, but the standard.
I hope by now you, or anyone else that started out as that type of beginner, have learned to research and prepare far prior to making purchases on a species they have not dealt with prior.

But just take this post as it is, a simple opinion.

 

[HiddenHollowHerp]

LOL. Lady, what makes you think I didn't do research? I was not a wealthy kid growing up, and even now, this computer is probably worth more than my house.

That was far from a simple opinion. That was insulting.

A man at the petshop told me I should buy a snake. I went in looking for a pet that was easy to take care of, and affordable with my $150 from my birthday (still the best birthday ever). He said to me, "This snake just lives in a box with some blankets. He's really easy to take care of. Just feed him mice." He was in a cardboard box with a light inside of it. He was hiding in a pillowcase. No substrate.

When I took him home, he had newspaper on the floor of his tank and a fleece blanket. He also had a rock cave with a basking surface. The light was way too hot though, and the humidity was ridiculously low. But, compared to the petshop, I'd say it was an improvement. Atleast he had a water dish.

When we got our computer, the first thing I did was google for pictures of ball pythons. That was when I learned.

Patch lives with a friend of mine who used to breed balls, and stopped (because of the abundancy of neglected snakes in the country) "he" is a lovely female ball python living in a massive enclosure with all of the love and care she will ever need.

Don't try to tell me I'm a terrible pet owner. I cried for a week straight, day and night, when I gave my first snake up. And guess what, I made that decision on my own, and even though it broke my heart, I'd do it again a hundred times.

 

[aleria]

I did not state anywhere in my reply that you were a "terrible pet owner". I stated that classifying all first time snake owners by using an example of yourself, and all of the things you did wrong, was an off assumption. You stated your first time you made a lot of mistakes, I agree, and I would say the same about anyone else that does the same thing. And research 10 years ago didn't require a computer, and at the time I didn't own one either, at least not with an internet connection. Library's were around though and entirely free, that and the school library is where I did my research as a beginner. Money is no excuse, I paid a total of $40 for my first bp, and the rest of the small amount of money went towards the heating and lighting of the cage.
And of course, again, I agree that having to give up an animal is horrible and I would cry too.
I'm sorry you took my opinion as an attack on you, but I plainly stated that I didn't like the way that you used the whole example of what you did as a description of all beginners, because it is entirely false that every single beginner is going to make the same mistakes that you did, that is where my issue with the statement was, not the choices you made in the care itself.
I'm fully aware of how many others make those mistakes so going off on a rant targeting you for making them would be asinine. Which is why I prefaced the entire post with "To classify "beginners" so generally as being that completely naive, ignorant and down right stupid is entirely off base." because that is the part of the post I took issue with.

 

[HiddenHollowHerp]

If you find a library within 100 miles of this town, I will catch you a unicorn.

Deal?

Money is a reason, but never an excuse. In my case, even if I'd had money, I doubt it would have hopped into my lap and told me everything I needed to know about my pet.

Computers were available ten years ago, and convertables are available now, but that doesn't mean everyone can afford to buy one, darling.

I'd have to agree that not all beginners are uninformed, but most of them really are to start out with. Thank God most of them are also rich kids with multiple computers, high-speed internet, and alot of time on their hands.

 

[critical bill]

I was not a wealthy kid growing up, and even now, this computer is probably worth more than my house.

I do understand your passion for this hobby, but it seems you're wasting an awful lot of your time on the wrong things if by what you're stating above is totally true. If my home was in such disrepair, to the extent that my computer was worth more than it, I wouldn't be spending a great deal of time and money collecting animals as my hobby and posting on forums. I would be trying to get things sorted in the priority and order of importance. The last thing I think I would need were animals to be dependent on me when my whole house was falling down around me. Needless to say, if I were not wealthy, I wouldn't need animals that could become sick and require veterinarian care that I truly could not afford.

And before you get upset with other peoples opinions you need to understand that most of it comes from experience and they are only trying to help. You're 20 years old, some people have furniture older than you.

 

[critical bill]

If you find a library within 100 miles of this town, I will catch you a unicorn.

I'd have to agree that not all beginners are uninformed, but most of them really are to start out with. Thank God most of them are also rich kids with multiple computers, high-speed internet, and alot of time on their hands.

WTF is Minnesota a third world country?

 

[HiddenHollowHerp]

How on earth do you know how old I am? (Probably a stupid question, I'm just curious).

I've got money in the bank which I recently inherited from someone very, very important to me. I was told to spend it carefully, so I decided against the condo in Hawaii (although I will admit, it's not THAT much money).

You're probably right about people trying to help me, but if you haven't noticed, I have some sort of freakish barrier in my head which prevents me from thinking that anyone other than me is correct.. About everything.

What is this thread about again? Oh yeah.
SO HOW ABOUT THAT ALLEGED HULLABALOO WITH ED & JOHN?

Scandalous~

 

[aleria]

Hey, I can try to be as un-insulting and mature as possible, but I know most people would prefer not to be told that someone disagrees with something they say. I didn't expect any different. But I think I've explained my point well enough. And thank you Chuck, that was most of the point I was trying to get across.