Bad Guy Andrew Hermes of Arizona Tortoise Compound

[Arizona Tortoise Compound]

I do not currently have hatchlings available, just the holdbacks which are more valuable then hatchlings. No shipping to you sir. 10 hour drive, come on down.

 

[ErikL]

What are the rough sizes of the hold backs?

 

[Arizona Tortoise Compound]

Pictures can be seen on our Facebook page -

Arizona Tortoise Compound -
https://www.facebook.com/pages/Arizona-Tortoise-Compound/179857695368687

 

[ErikL]

What would you estimate their value?

 

[Jennbell0725]

I don't think you owe him a thing Andrew! I've done business with you before and wouldn't hesitate to do it again. Sometimes things happen, this was out of your control and you did everything in your power when the buyer notified you of the delay in shipping. Since you are obviously in compliance with your terms then there is nothing to worry about, anyone who reads the whole story and still has a problem probably isn't someone you want to do business with anyway.

 

[David Scarboro]

So if you order a VERY expensive animal from someone and it dies during shipping from their mistake you are going to say don't worry, after the shipper will not make it right? Just trying to get this for the record.

 

[Fangthane]

Sometimes things happen, this was out of your control

Whether his actions directly played a part in the tort's demise is VERY debatable. Fortunately, your oh-so-objective opinion doesn't really apply to the situation. The base idiocy in your comments is fairly astounding. I suspect that the fact that you've done business with ATC is about as far as you're willing/able to think the situation through. I bet you'd be singing an entirely different tune, had you paid dearly for an animal that arrived dead. It absolutely IS ATC's responsibility to provide an animal that arrives as-described - ALIVE. Much like the rest of his supporters, you apparently lack the capacity to see beyond your own interests. I have to assume that you're grubbing for a future discount. Or maybe you're just clueless. Not sure which the lesser of those two evils would be.

Since you are obviously in compliance with your terms then there is nothing to worry about, anyone who reads the whole story and still has a problem probably isn't someone you want to do business with anyway.

In my eyes, anyone with even the slightest modicum of intelligence and integrity can see that his terms are highly unethical and laughably self-serving; quite possibly unlawful. I'd counter that anyone who actually reads this thread and continues to support him, is someone who lacks ethics and basic decency; clearly someone to be pointed out and avoided. Thanks for standing up to be counted among those who support the idea that it's okay to rip someone off. Welcome to The List.

 

[Jennbell0725]

Whether his actions directly played a part in the tort's demise is VERY debatable. Fortunately, your oh-so-objective opinion doesn't really apply to the situation. The base idiocy in your comments is fairly astounding. I suspect that the fact that you've done business with ATC is about as far as you're willing/able to think the situation through. I bet you'd be singing an entirely different tune, had you paid dearly for an animal that arrived dead. It absolutely IS ATC's responsibility to provide an animal that arrives as-described - ALIVE. Much like the rest of his supporters, you apparently lack the capacity to see beyond your own interests. I have to assume that you're grubbing for a future discount. Or maybe you're just clueless. Not sure which the lesser of those two evils would be.


In my eyes, anyone with even the slightest modicum of intelligence and integrity can see that his terms are highly unethical and laughably self-serving; quite possibly unlawful. I'd counter that anyone who actually reads this thread and continues to support him, is someone who lacks ethics and basic decency; clearly someone to be pointed out and avoided. Thanks for standing up to be counted among those who support the idea that it's okay to rip someone off. Welcome to The List.

How are his terms unethical? The fact that you think that shows how full of it you are. How can someone guarantee live delivery with no conditions? Shit happens!!! He would be an idiot to do that. The fact that the buyer purchased such an expensive animal and then didn't want to go through the hassle of having it shipped via delta nor was he willing to pick it up at the hub shows so much. If I had forked out thousands(cash+trade) I would do everything in my power to make sure the shipping was a foolproof as possible. I've driven 12+ hours do pay 600 for a tortoise before, I would be willing do do much more for a specimen worth thousands. How is this Andrew's fault? He called UPS as soon as he was notified and got the buyer a chance to pick up the tort that night, he shipped per his conditions. It wasn't his fault the shipping was delayed, he didn't put the tort in a plastic bag, he didn't refuse to pick up the tortoise at the hub. Please explain how he is at fault?

As for my motives for this post. ANY TIME you purchase a live animal to be shipped, death is a possibility. When you consider the amount of shipping ATC goes through it was bound to happen sooner or later, the only reason this post has gotten so much attention is because so many people have heard of ATC. I can tell you right now I've done business with ATC once, but I have also done business with some of his competitors ALL of which have recommended him to me if they didn't have what I wanted at the time. That tells me way more that one bad review any day. As for me wanting something out of the deal, I have never dealt with Andrew on Fauna so I highly doubt he will even recognize my name or remember my transaction without looking it up. As for a discount? I look at way more than price when I purchase a tortoise.

 

[David Scarboro]

Every reputable and aboveboard dealer will guarantee live delivery if signed for on first attempt. Anything else is crooked and a bad deal. I think that almost EVERYONE will agree on this. Why don't you read his TOS carefully before we get too deep into this discussion. As far as "****" happening, that doesn't sit well as an excuse. I sell very expensive antique radios. If you pay for one and it gets busted during shipping will it be ok if I tell you "****" happens and refuse to make it right?

 

[demonseed38]

My tortoise came in good shape.

 

[LauraB]

You did get a nice healthy looking tort. You did get a nice tort packaged PROPERLY in a wood crate as it should have been, if your photos are true. You have made your position and stance very clear.

That said, since the OP's tort was NOT shipped in a wood crate, but rather a simple cardboard box, it's highly likely that tort defecated during shipping and that waste weakened the box and caused the box to leak. In that event, it also makes sense the carrier would contain such a leak in a plastic bag and then another larger box, and that may have delayed the shipment.

Andrew has already claimed, relative to the permits that they ALL should have, that when he turned over the $1K cash and the traded tort to "the breeder" he was helping out with this sale that he was the rightful owner of the animal he then shipped to the OP. Therefore, he is responsible for packaging errors and compensation.

Period.

I hope they both can work it out. The sooner the better.

 

[dhct301]

I'm glad I read this atc dropped the ball. to bring up a third party is ludacris. how convient the female you sent died a week latter. that is total bs I believe. I will not purchase my indian star from them. good luck eric

 

[coolbord9]

Talk about hitting 2 birds with one stone (or however many have chimed in at this point). Point out one seller's bad practices on the BOI and 10 others come out of the woodwork to offer defense. You end up with a dozen new names on your list and a helluva story to go with em

 

[Dennis Hultman]

It seems like there was almost a deal on the table to resolve this?

It has been almost a month after those posts. Just wondering if the resolution talks are ongoing?

 

[Dthompson2634]

Is it not interesting that a deal is being made for Erik L to admit he was wrong and he knew the shipment was delayed and all that? Either he's selling himself out OR he was wrong to begin with. This post just seems a little over the top to me. I could understand the frustration but its almost like a high school girl's fight.

 

[Bobby Douglass]

Is it not interesting that a deal is being made for Erik L to admit he was wrong and he knew the shipment was delayed and all that? Either he's selling himself out OR he was wrong to begin with. This post just seems a little over the top to me. I could understand the frustration but its almost like a high school girl's fight.

This doesn't make much sense.

 

[Lucille]

From: [email protected]
To: "Lucille @ FaunaClassifieds" <[email protected]>
Sent: Tuesday, December 9, 2014 3:32:12 PM
Subject: Re: BOI

No, he has not taken care of me. Thank you for asking. Erik

Sent from my iPhone

On Dec 9, 2014, at 9:33 AM, "Lucille @ FaunaClassifieds" <[email protected]> wrote:

> This is a message from Lucille at FaunaClassifieds ( http://www.faunaclassifieds.com/forums/index.php ). The FaunaClassifieds owners cannot accept any responsibility for the contents of the email.
>
> To email Lucille, you can use this online form:
> http://www.faunaclassifieds.com/forums/sendmessage.php?do=mailmember&u=9283
>
> OR, by email:
> mailto:[email protected]
>
> This is the message:
>
> Erik, I am following up on your BOI thread about ATC. Another thread was started and ATC has said he took care of you, did he do so? Thanks, Lucille
> http://www.faunaclassifieds.com/forums/showthread.php?t=444291

 

[Arizona Tortoise Compound]

I never received any response from Erik, he has not contacted me to come pick up any animals like offered in the deal on Post 279. If Erik ever contacts me I will proceed as planned. Rules of post 279 would need to be met in full. After two years of back and fourth on this Boi thread, the horse is way past dead. This will be my last post on these BOI's. Its way too much hatred without understanding from a small handful of the same people. I encourage all to read the thread in full and come to your own conclusions. If and when Erik gets his animals, you will see a post from him as per post 279. I do not think we will ever see that post though, as he has already got want he wanted from this.

Per Lucille , the situation is taken care of, if he doesn't want to be taken care of.

 

[Lucille]

I do not currently have hatchlings available, just the holdbacks which are more valuable then hatchlings. No shipping to you sir. 10 hour drive, come on down.

This is a deal? Making your customer drive 10 hours after he went through the fiasco with the dead turtle, and then having to deal with this seller and maybe coming away empty handed?
The seller is the one who should have delivered.

 

[Lucille]

This will be my last post on these BOI's.

Translation:

I never expected that someone would get in touch with the buyer and find out that I've done squat. There's no way I can BS my way out of this one so I'm going to leave