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Bad Guy Andrew Hermes of Arizona Tortoise Compound

Agreed, Jeff. ATC can blame UPS till the cows come home, but this delay happened BECAUSE the WRONG type of shipping container for the animal being shipped was selected, not because UPS mishandled the package. The UPS agents were doing what they had to do to keep the contents from falling out the bottom of the box. They couldn't send it on its way when the box was deteriorating, so had to hold on to it a while until they figured out what to do.


By the way, it is 350 miles from the Ontario hub to Erik's house, so it is no wonder he could not run right over and pick up the dead tortoise.

Additionally where has any proof been provided that the one he sent ATC is really dead? It would seem to me that with all this controversy starting right away it would have been a very wise idea to document the death of that animal, which hasn't been done unless I missed something.


To address Bill, the mix up happened in Ontario fist is what caused the delay in shipping. Erik does know the hub and details from what UPS provided him when they got it to his city's hub. I do not know the name of the hub any longer, but Erik does. He could of went there to receive instead of putting it on the truck for the second day delivery. Also Bill I didnt blame UPS to correct a linking package after the second day, of coarse they cant have a leaky box on top of others. I only blame UPS workers for ignoring the live animal labels and placing the animal in plastic. I also blame them for the mix up in Ontario by missing the first truck. Further I do put some blame on UPS to let me insure shipments when they know they do not cover it because it is considered a perishable. A few years back I had UPS on one other occasion re box my package because the tortoise was almost breaking out. They didn't bag him in plastic, they put my package in a new box and charged me for the box. This too was because of the carrier's delays but the tortoise was fine and arrived safe the second day. My shipments and shipping containers are setup for Priority over night shipping as stated in the terms and conditions. I can not control or guarantee what happens to my packages after the carrier has delayed the shipment for reasons out of my control. This transaction between Erik and I is and was done and finalized a long time ago.
 
Arizona Tortoise Compound said:
Agreed, Jeff. ATC can blame UPS till the cows come home, but this delay happened BECAUSE the WRONG type of shipping container for the animal being shipped was selected, not because UPS mishandled the package. The UPS agents were doing what they had to do to keep the contents from falling out the bottom of the box. They couldn't send it on its way when the box was deteriorating, so had to hold on to it a while until they figured out what to do.


By the way, it is 350 miles from the Ontario hub to Erik's house, so it is no wonder he could not run right over and pick up the dead tortoise.

Additionally where has any proof been provided that the one he sent ATC is really dead? It would seem to me that with all this controversy starting right away it would have been a very wise idea to document the death of that animal, which hasn't been done unless I missed something.


To address Bill, the mix up happened in Ontario fist is what caused the delay in shipping. Erik does know the hub and details from what UPS provided him when they got it to his city's hub. I do not know the name of the hub any longer, but Erik does. He could of went there to receive instead of putting it on the truck for the second day delivery. Also Bill I didnt blame UPS to correct a linking package after the second day, of coarse they cant have a leaky box on top of others. I only blame UPS workers for ignoring the live animal labels and placing the animal in plastic. I also blame them for the mix up in Ontario by missing the first truck. Further I do put some blame on UPS to let me insure shipments when they know they do not cover it because it is considered a perishable. A few years back I had UPS on one other occasion re box my package because the tortoise was almost breaking out. They didn't bag him in plastic, they put my package in a new box and charged me for the box. This too was because of the carrier's delays but the tortoise was fine and arrived safe the second day. My shipments and shipping containers are setup for Priority over night shipping as stated in the terms and conditions. I can not control or guarantee what happens to my packages after the carrier has delayed the shipment for reasons out of my control. This transaction between Erik and I is and was done and finalized a long time ago.
Click to expand...

Wow, you can throw the blame around. How about some for you. So you are willing to tell anyone who buys from you that whatever happens you are not at fault for problems and will not make it right. Even with a leaking package that you packed. That should throw any potential customers a warning right there. A statement along the lines of "as long as everything goes good, I'll be there for you". The trouble is that is not and will not be good business. Buyer Beware! Also your last statement above is not true. I'm SURE that you would LOVE for it to be done, that isn't going to happen!
 
Who shipped the tort? You did.

YOUR TOS DONT MEAN CRAP IF YOU WONT HONOR THEM!!! You don't get to have terms of service and then pick and choose if you'll make good on them, unless to earn that BAD GUY RATING.

YOU stated you have a live arrival guarantee. YOU PUT THE TORT IN AN INAPPROPRIATE CONTAINER. Stop it with all this other nonsense. "Well he wanted it shipped UPS" So? You gonna jump off a bridge if all your friends tell you to? "I can't be held liable!" Shut up. Yes you can. Fauna and all your future customers that come here are telling you that yes, indeed, you are. "But the trade tort died!" Really? Are you seriously expecting anyone to believe that lie and let it slide?

You can stomp your foot and tell everyone that "this business" with Erik is done and that's that, but you wishing this problem away won't solve anything.

Take care of your customer!!!! You killed that radiated!
 
I have adressed why I didn't go to my local hub in a previous post. I had to work that day, UPS said I could not pick the package up until after 10 am and I think they told me or I suspected it would be delivered by 2 pm as it was late. Retrospectively, I suspect the animal perished a few hours after the box was put in a plastic bag. When that occurred, I do not know. Frankly, it was not even in my frame of reference that could happen. Lastly, as to the shipping modality, Andrew and I had a discussion regarding it, UPS was mutually decided upon as HE felt comfortable shipping the tortoise that way as he had good experience in the past. Alternatively, I chose "ship your reptiles", as I did not have experience in this and they allowed for insurance.
 
You are starting to smell bad Andrew. I would like to point out another statement YOU made earlier. You told the OP that if he brought this matter to the BOI that you would be done. That is another cop out. You already had told him that you were basically not going to do anything to make it right. Kind of like a store that says "if you have a complaint, we will not help". Really? Everyone is watching now Andrew. I am glad that you have come out in the open again after quietly visiting this thread and watching from behind the curtain, but you are not helping yourself here.
 
Andrew, why won't you just refund him?

Is it a matter of money? The whole industry is watching you, talking about this. If you honestly need some time to put together the funds, no one could judge. But you definitely need to do better concerning this. It's not ever going to go away.

You've been around long enough to see a seller start out great, and then due to some bad judgement, crash and burn. This deal is FOREVER going to be a blood stain on your reputation unless you make it right. Only YOU can right this wrong.

Why won't you? Is your pride worth all this negative press? Is your business forever being etched into Fauna as a place to avoid worth this?

Make this right, and I think you'll be surprised at how many criticisms become compliments.
 
Magic said:
Is it a matter of money?
Click to expand...

Check with your CPA, this may count as an uninsured business loss and be deductible.
In any case, the business cost to you because of lost biz of NOT refunding is likely to be substantial.
 
[QMy shipments and shipping containers are setup for Priority over night shipping as stated in the terms and conditions. I can not control or guarantee what happens to my packages after the carrier has delayed the shipment for reasons out of my control. This transaction between Erik and I is and was done and finalized a long time ago.[/QUOTE]

You know how many times I've had delays in shipping and had the animals arrive in perfect shape? In my 22 years in the hobby, I have lost count. If the animal is boxed right a delay, especially of only 1 day makes no difference. You have purposely avoided the subject of the substandard box and whether the tort Eric sent you is really dead or not about a half dozen times each. If I'm not mistaken Eric said the bottom of the box was destroyed not simply wet. You CAN control things despite carriers delays by packing properly. And I'm still not convinced the "carrier delay" wasn't actually because of your packaging anyway. Your transaction with Eric is not completed because Eric is out his tort and money he sent you and has nothing to show for it. You have a LONG way to go before this transaction is complete!
 
I guess it never occurred to Andrew that the delay was caused by the leaking package. No matter how you spin and twist it, it always will come pack to you.

Do you really think you can fall into a pile of crap and come out smelling like roses?!
 
Mr. Hermes needs to stop putting blame on UPS. He's the one that packaged the animal, he's the one that shipped it out. How is it their fault that his packaging job was not adequate? An animal died because of his lackluster packaging job, and then he has the gall to blame the buyer and UPS that the animal died? Seems to me that he is looking for any out he can to not have to address anything. Again, he has yet to address the fact that people want to know that his shipment he received actually died, as there have been 2 separate stories for that as well.

I do not see how this "gentleman" is still wanting to sweep all of this under the rug, and talk people into starting Good Guy threads for him. What sense does that make? Those Good Guy threads will have links to this damning thread. I sincerely hope that he (Mr. Hermes) either makes right, but the chances of that happening are slim to none.

BTW, you said you did take care of this matter? HOW? Provide Proof of it, as Erik says you still haven't.
 
Just wanted to say that I work at UPS and after hearing this story went to the people I work beside that would be responsible for processing a leaking package and asked them what they would do in this situation.

If the package was discovered leaking it would have been inspected first by a hazmat responder to determine if the liquid was hazardous.

To do this the responder would have had to open the box. Upon inspection it would have been discovered that the box contained a live turtle and the liquid was likely urine and it would have then been sent to a PSC (package service center) clerk to repackage and forward.

I spoke with 3 PSC clerks to see what they would have done if they came across a live reptile in this situation. All 3 said they would have first checked to see if the animal was even allowed in the system. If it was, they would have tried to repair the package and if unable to do that would have tried to repackage it as close to it's original packaging as possible. I can tell you that at least in our HUB we don't have insulated boxes like I have seen reptiles shipped in, so insulation would have not likely been included in the repackaging, unless it could be repaired satisfactorily.

I then asked them if they were aware that there was a living creature in the box, under what circumstances would they place it in a plastic bag. Each of them said that they would only do that if the creature were already dead to keep the fluids from leaking from the box at a later time during it's travel to the destination.

I realize that this doesn't prove that that was the case here, but it would seem like pretty much common sense not to place an animal that has to breath in a plastic bag, so I believe that the animal was already dead when it was placed in the plastic bag and repackaged. This may not have been UPS's fault at all. Regardless of the reasons, I feel like the seller should refund the buyer's money since the animal didn't arrive alive.
 
I understand that Andrew was doing a favor for a friend and really was gaining nothing in this. But Andrew took on the responsibility of getting his friends animal to Eric safely. That didn't happen because of his own doing. His friend tells Andrew it's his problem about the dead tort and won't give Eric's tort or money back. It's now going to cost Andrew big bucks to straighten it out so he's trying any way he can t get out of it. Lesson for Andrew, don't do expensive favors for friends. Lesson for everyone viewing this thread, on big deals ATC cannot be trusted to do the right thing if something goes wrong.
 
As a breeder and seller of reptiles. I can tell you that ups. Usps. Fedex. . . All handle the packages rough. Some animals, especially turtles , can stress out over it and die from the mishandling alone. I just ordered a sulcata from Andrew. It's being flown in tomorrow and I'm well aware of the risk. But the airport does a much better job than these idiots that handle the mail. He offered you a refund or another animal and I think you just wanted a reason to cry and whine. Grow up. This guy didn't do anything wrong.you should have tracked your package and got to it on time.
 
He never oferred anything but hatchling radiated tortoises that I could buy from him at his cost then resell to recoup my loss. He never oferred any money just store credit. Read the old posts thoroughly before passing judgement.
 
How long did you let it stay in the package though. You have to track it and then go get it asap . I've called the post office after missing them at the door. Tracked the driver down and met them in a parking lot to get my animals. Nobody is going to give a live arrivel guarantee if you don't get your animal on time. But in the case that you did receive it on time and it was dead then. He should replace it immediately
 
I tracked it, I was working when it arrived at the ups office. I was at the gate at my house when they dropped it off. The animal was likely dead 30 min after some moron put the box in a plastic bag. It arrived late as the packaging was broken. I insured the tortoise that I sent him.
 
ErikL said:
we both shipped our tortoises on March 18th. I shipped mine via "ship your reptiles" paid extra for insurance, and the tortoise arrived as promised at just before 10am the following day Tuesday alive and well according to the email Mr. Hermes sent me. The tortoise Mr. Hermes sent me arrived on Wednesday March 20th at 5 pm, DEAD.
Click to expand...

theres a HUGE hole in the OP's story as it is portrayed.

the OP claims UPS did not deliver on the next day(Mar 19), but the 2nd day(Mar 20).

who in the right mind would miss next day delivery, and NOT drop by at the UPS hub for their town/city that same evening to pick up their missed delivery?

especially when its a multi-thousand-dollar LIVE PERISHABLE tortoise?! :confused:

a UPS tracking history was omitted from the OP most likely because it would have shown delivery was attempted on Mar 19 and MISSED.

and we all know whose fault it is for missing delivery on the first attempt, especially when we are looking out for that precious perishable cargo from morning til end of the UPS business day.. dont we? ;)
 
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