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Bad Guy Andrew Hermes of Arizona Tortoise Compound

I JUST WASTED 2 HOURS OF MY LIFE READING THIS ENTIRE MESS HOPING TO SEE SOME PROOF (PICS OF DAMAGED BOX, PICS OF DEAD TORTOISE, EMAILS, ETC) FROM ERIK AND GET TO THE END WITHOUT ANY EVIDENCE AT ALL. I'M NOT DEFENDING ANDREW IN ANY WAY BUT I THINK IF EVERYONE (10-12 PEOPLE) ARE DEMANDING FULL REFUND FROM ATC THERE AT LEAST OUGHT TO BE SOME PROOF POSTED FROM ERIK. ISN'T PROOF REQUIRE TO POST ON THE B.O.I.? I COULD SWEAR THAT IS A RULE. SEVERAL TIMES PEOPLE HAVE ASKED TO SEE THEIR EMAIL CORRESPONDENCE OR PICS OF THE DOA RADIATED OR PICS OF THE SHIPPING BOX AND NOTHING COMES. I WOULD LIKE TO SEE SOME PROOF AFTER READING ALL THE HATE. I HESITATED TO WRITE ANYTHING ON HERE FOR FEAR OF DRAWING THE VENOM TO MYSELF BUT AFTER 2 HOURS ON THIS DAMN THREAD, I WANT TO SEE ERIKS PROOF OR I FEEL I'VE JUST WASTED 2 HOURS FOR NOTHING. POST SOME PICS OR EMAILS OR SOMETHING. OTHERWISE IT'S JUST A SAD, PATHETIC, HATEFUL STORY.
 
It really took you 2 whole hours to read this nearly 2-year old thread? And then you post in all screaming caps about proof you need to see?

Whew!! Dam good thing you didn't waste two whole hours of your life back in 2013 when this was first posted!

Hey, you're there in AZ ... betcha Andrew and ATC would be thrilled you dredged this thread up from the dead. :)

Not spewing venom, but your indignation seems a tad late and a tad feigned.
 
lizardmaster1 said:
I JUST WASTED 2 HOURS OF MY LIFE READING THIS ENTIRE MESS HOPING TO SEE SOME PROOF (PICS OF DAMAGED BOX, PICS OF DEAD TORTOISE, EMAILS, ETC) FROM ERIK AND GET TO THE END WITHOUT ANY EVIDENCE AT ALL.
Click to expand...

ErikL said:
I have been miserable about this since the day it happened. I notified Mr. Hermes immediately and sent pictures. Upon telling him that the tortoise was dead, he told me he needed 24 hrs to figure out what to do, that actually it was more complicated in that the tortoise he advertised was not his, it was owned by a third party. I had no knowledge of the third party until this time.
Click to expand...
ATC never contested anything that the OP stated, so it's pretty laughable that you're now trying to do just that. If you're going to try pointing out unproven contentions, you should start with Andrew Hermes. There was never a shred of evidence given to show that he was nothing more than a broker in this deal - he apparently never felt the need to mention it before the SHTF and the situation made its way here - nor did he provide anything to back his claim that the tortoise sent by the OP subsequently died. Although I do have to doubt your reading comprehension skills; I can't help feeling that your mind was made up before the reading actually began. It's interesting that you'd be quick to focus on the OP's perceived lack of proof, while casually ignoring ATC's actual lack of proof. :rolleyes:

lizardmaster1 said:
ISN'T PROOF REQUIRE TO POST ON THE B.O.I.? I COULD SWEAR THAT IS A RULE.
Click to expand...
No, it is not "required." A fact for which ATC is very grateful, I'm sure.
 
the allegedly dead animal was delivered not to Erik directly, but per Erik's instructions, left at the front gate?

what if it was not the bagging of the box, but the leaving out in the sun unattended in the bagged box that precipitated the alleged death?

is there any proof the animal died in transit, rather than died sitting at an unattended gate?

my thoughts are sure, animals are stressed enough during any delays and complications while en route. but by the time they reach their destination address, there's just no excuse for the buyer to neglect to be actively tracking and anticipating the arrival of their rare multithousand dollar animal, poised for the moment it finally does reach their door.

for a buyer/receiver to actually direct the shipper to waive direct signature requirement and thus carrier liability is one flag. to not be present during delivery attempt, however tardy, is another. and the third and final flag i see is that there is no proof of a dead animal, just a claim that the box that arrived was wrapped in plastic and that it was left at the front gate unattended - per the recipient's instructions to do just that.
 
I picked up the box at my gate within 20 min of drop off, the weather that month was nOt hot, the seller knows I contacted him in under an hour of the arrival of the dead tortoise. The box was in a plastic bag. The reason for the signature waiver was that the gate is 300 yards from the house, there is no buzzer, and I didn't want to take a chance of the animal getting put back on the truck.
 
ErikL said:
I picked up the box at my gate within 20 min of drop off, the weather that month was nOt hot, the seller knows I contacted him in under an hour of the arrival of the dead tortoise. The box was in a plastic bag. The reason for the signature waiver was that the gate is 300 yards from the house, there is no buzzer, and I didn't want to take a chance of the animal getting put back on the truck.
Click to expand...

oh. :eek:

Andrew will be missed :(

RIP
 
I'm really sorry Erik :( . I thought for sure you would of taken him to court. 3 grand is a bucket of money. I definitely can see this thread might of hurt. This thread has I believe 38 k views on it WOW ! That definitely had to hurt !
 
ErikL said:
At this point I have no other choice but to join Mr. Hermes and UPS in a small claims lawsuit over the matter.
Click to expand...

Would love to hear details about the case; considering there seems to be no actual demand from UPS for compensation; just from Andrew - despite it being the receiver who in effect, directed that the animal be just left at the gate (thus insurance waived and animal's value thus expendable) like the morning newspaper.
 
UpS doesn't guarantee live arrival of animals under any circumstance therefore no insurance available. For this reason i shipped the tortouse i sent him via "ship my reptiles" which does offer such. Atc was comfortable using ups. The animal was in no way expendable, aNd I have explained ag bosom the reason for the shipping directions.
 
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