You can call it propaganda, but the problem is a real FACT. If there weren't irresponsible reptile keepers in the hobby, there wouldn't be this problem then would there?
1. Show me the proof of irresponsible reptile owners causing the Burm problems in Florida.
As a rescuer and wildlife rehabber, I'd say the answer is that you should do a better job of policing your hobby, and a BIG item on my list with sellers...is INDISCRIMINATE sales!
Again, show me proof of #1 above. Once you have proven that, then you can start blaming people for indiscriminately selling Burms, etc. I'm not saying this isn't a problem (I have my own views about whether pet stores should be able to sell large constrictors); I'm saying there is no proof it caused
this problem.
I have been involved with herps for over 25 years, and I was even a wild collector in a past life before being reformed as a rescuer and wildlife rehabber. It's my opinion that most sellers simply make a sale to whomever has the money, and a lot of times this is long distance, and don't know the buyer at all.
How many sellers have you directly spoken with about this? Anything else is hearsay.
Second, the problem species aren't often high dollar animals to begin with. I get contacted frequently about taking in big dangerous species that the people can't GIVE away! Whether its a "hot", or a Burmese or Retic, or a big male Iguana with a bad attitude. Those kinds of animals end up getting dumped by irresponsible buyers. This hobby is all too full of those kind.
Show me these non-high-dollar hots. I guess you should first quantitatively state your definition of "high-dollar" so we're all on the same page.
The problem isn't with the adult reptiles. It's with people buying them as babies without being informed of how big/nasty/whatever they get. You should not be comparing cost of the adults because that's not where the root of the problem is.
I see a lot of denial and putting heads in the sand when it comes to these issues in the herp community. I was part of taking in animals from the SPCA Arlington,Tx. / USGE seizure. As an SPCA Placement Partner, my rescue org took in more than 2,100 of the 26,000+ animals confiscated from USGE. During and after this event, I saw a lot of people in the herp community with their fingers in their ears about the situation...claiming that it was all "animal rights" activists fabricating evidence. I saw a complete knee jerk dismissal from many in the herp community, who did not look objectively at evidence at all, simply because PETA or SPCA were involved.
I would like to see your exact numbers on the fraction of the herp community who thinks it was animal rights activists fabricating evidence. A few loud people arguing on an Internet messageboard is not "a lot."
The problem of encroachment by non-native species in the southeast is not all at the feet of irresponsible individual keepers who let them loose. Some of the blame is on importers of wild caught animals too, which pass through ports like Miami. This community is still rife with that kind of trade too, and USGE and Jasen Shaw exemplified that. Shaw is now wanted by the feds for smuggling in case anyone hadn't heard.
What are the fractions of invasive species introduced by pet-owners? What are the fractions of invasive species introduced by importers? You need to show evidence, not hand-waving.
Read about the brown tree snake in Guam and how it got there. (Hint: You're gonna have to start blaming the Wright brothers.)
The fact that many herp keepers are responsible does not negate the truth that far too many are not, and that there is a SERIOUS non-native invasive species problem in FL. and the rest of the southeast, and this has been caused in LARGE part by reptile importers and irresponsible reptile keepers. I recently talked to a friend in Ft Lauderdale, and was shocked that it is worse than even I thought.
Again, show me the evidence this is mainly caused by importers and pet-owners.
Also, I'd like you to show me the type of pet where all owners are responsible. Definitely not dogs and cats, that's for sure.
I don't have the particulars of this broadcast by animal planet, but I do happen to know the problem is real, and it is a big one. I also happen to know that many people in this community label anything and everything that they don't agree with as "animal rights propaganda".
Who, in the reptile community, says the Burms in Florida are not a problem? For heaven's sake, USARK is one of the only groups actually trying to
do something about the problem instead of trying to pass laws that will do absolutely nothing to help solve the problem.
And by the way...don't try the "do you believe everything you gov tells you" line with me...I've been a field trainer and Constitutionalist patriot since 1994 when I left the US Army....long before anyone ever thought of a "Tea Party" movement...and long before most of you ever heard of Ron Paul...so save it.
Cool! I've been a member of the Republican party since almost that time as well! That must mean I know a lot more than y'all!
I know people who have gone into the Glades and found several large constrictors in a single outing. That's convincing enough to me, and I don't need to justify numbers to you to prove my point. I don't lay claim to any numbers, and you would be foolish to do so as well. It's well accepted that such creatures are getting quite established in the region, so playing numbers games with you is a little moot at this point.
Wow, you have one outing. That's one data point. That's not even enough data to try to estimate the error!
If you want to convince us that what you're saying is more than just you blowing off at the mouth, then yes, you do need numbers.
Yes, they're established. Does that say anything about the numbers of them
actually living in the 'Glades? Absolutely not.
Essentially what we have here is more denial by people such as yourself. You don't champion that there is "NO" problem. You simply want to debate numbers and state it's not "that bad", and that it's 'propaganda". You are wallowing in the mud trying to occlude the waters and split hairs, and claiming "propaganda" in order to dismiss the problem. That too shows a lack of leadership and commitment in this community, which I am a part of, and which will further show people in that community to be irresponsible and unwilling to take responsibility and self-police. The denial of the problem, no matter how far along you think it is, only serves to further hurt the community as a whole, and the whole community will suffer for that kind of attitude.
Uhhh, okay. Let's get on the same page, here since it's obvious you're misreading our intentions.
The propaganda we're referring to in this thread is not that the problem is small or not a big deal. We're talking about the propaganda from Animal Planet (among others) that exists only to rile up the public about Burms in Florida and make them think that the snakes are going to come into their backyards to eat their children. It's about the propaganda that tries to convince people that no one should own any of these creatures. It's about the propaganda that tries to convince people that pet owners are to blame. It's about all the propaganda with one motive: ignoring how to fix the problem in Florida.
It's not about trying to downplay the problem in Florida. It's about trying to downplay the whole snakes are evil, they're everywhere, they will migrate to your area, we need to pass all kinds of stupid laws to make people think we're doing something when we actually won't be doing anything about the actual problem in Florida.
I'm not part of the problem, because I never released any non-natives of mine, and never sold non-natives when I was selling.
Hey, cool, I haven't either, so I'm not a part of the problem! Great! I'll go on my way now, doing absolutely nothing to help the FL problem....
Perhaps nobody you know was involved with the USGE rescue, because they weren't up to par and weren't legit rescuers. Most of these animals were wild caught, and nobody in the pet trade got access to them. That's standard procedure, and if you have a problem with that, it says more about you than it does me.
I don't see the point of this...except to add a few steps up to your high horse.
