Argentine Boa Help

[kmurphy]

Northern Ohio Association of Herpetologists
Dr. Martin Rosenberg
Dept. of Biology
Case Western Reserve Univ.
Cleveland, OH 44106

Martin Rosenberg
[email protected]
216-368-3558
_________________

NOAH is one of the longest running herp societies in the country and probably one of the best. Marty Rosenberg has been involved with it for at least 25 years that I know of.

 

[Psone]

well the snake has finally eaten yesterday when i got up i threw the rat in a second later he was eating it he knew exactly how to grab it to so he seems to be doing great now.

 

[armchairangel]

I don't know if you're still following this thread or not and how the snake is doing now, but I thought I'd add my thoughts to the situation. I just recently finished a vet tech internship with an exotic vet who specializes in reptiles and I own a snake who we acquired with retained eye caps and other issues.

First off, yes, a visit to the vet is very important, particularly if the wheezing comes back or you see any discharge coming from the mouth or nose, even if it is clear liquid. As stated earlier, wheezing can come from loose shed in the nostrils or a variety of other harmless things.

One thing that may tell a lot about what's going on is how its next shed goes. When I brought my snake in with retained eye caps and heat pits and a nostril plugged with retained shed, our vet said that we should see how much of the old skin comes off with the next shed. If stuff was still there, then we'd try other methods of removing it. I would suggest waiting to see what happens with the eyes after the next shed and it will help determine what should be done to fix it.

It is very important to keep it in the correct temps and humidity level in the meantime, as that is one of the most common reasons for poor sheds. Another simple way to ensure good humidity is to offer a moist hide. Put some sphagnum moss or other moisture retaining substrate (we use shredded coconut mulch for instance) into a plastic container that it can fit into, making a hole just big enough for it to fit through, and spray the substrate so its moist. If you give it the correct environment and it still doesn't shed completely, there could be underlying, internal reasons for shedding poorly.

Be very careful in trying to remove the old skin around and over the eyes. Using a damp terry cloth towel is a fairly safe way of loosening it and pulling it away. However, if it doesn't come away easily, don't pick at it because the skin (or eye!) underneath can be damaged. I had to manually remove the retained shed over my snake's head and as I pulled off the eye caps, the eyeball underneath almost seemed to pull out of the socket. As I lessened the pulling, it went back in and it was fine. Please don't fuss with the eyeball as it is very delicate and vulnerable right after a shed. Wrinkles can occur in the surface and very well may stay there for the rest of its life (there may be some there already). They are typically harmless, and trying to smooth them out yourself can cause further damage.

I don't know if what your snake has is actually retained eye caps. My snake had several layers over his eyes and they were not blue and cloudy like yours is, they were only slightly cloudy. From your pictures, it looked more like the eye was clouding over as if it was getting ready to shed. However, the other eye was normal, so that wouldn't explain why it was that color. Perhaps that eye has retained many more than 2 or 3 caps, but I have a feeling it is from a different reason. A vet would need to make a diagnosis as I can't examine the snake and wouldn't be able to tell you what was wrong even if I could.

I'm glad that its finally started eating and hopefully it will continue to do well. Everyone has given you great advice regarding how to deal with the pet shop (wow... can't believe they're doing what they are!) and I wish you good luck!

 

[Psone]

Wel he is doing really well,

He has no weezing no mucus nothing,
and he eats about 3 medium rats a week i am thinking about switching him to Large rats,every night i have been putting baby oil on his eye it seems when i rub it witht he Q-Tip it wants to come of but not in a normal way but like his whole eye wants to come out,So i just put it on gently and hoping for the best,

I really dont know how this could of happened to him except form neglect from the pet shop,

I went back to the pet shop about a wekk ago and they have completely sold all of there snakes for what reason i do not know,

But i have recently got a Red tail boa female forma breeder she is about 5 foot long,
i have her in the same cage as him, now i know since there not the same exact type of snake there is no way they can mate ut its seems they get along really well,

i having a hard time finding good deals on live rats here in cleveland ohio,
it seems even the medium sized ones are 5 dollars,i went to parma pets and he gave me 2 little ass ones for 7 bucka and those where just snakes to them,

And they wont eat frozen so i have to feed them live.

Yeah there doing great but i am thinking if i would need to get medicine i have this feed store where i coul probally get what i need and administor it to them myself but i dont htink there is no need for it.

 

[crotalusadamanteus]

A couple concerns from what you posted above, have arisen with in me. Don't take it personal, but I'm about to point them out to you.

First off, You need to separate them. Not just because THEY CAN AND WILL MATE, but for health and safety issues. Unless you see it yourself, you don't know which one defecates, so how do you know they are both passing OK? If one has an underlying ailment, then it won't be long before the other one has it too. Just ain't good to house two snakes together unless, first, you know both snakes to be of good health, and, you are trying to breed them.

It's been recommended by everyone to go see a vet. You're putting the animals health at risk by not doing so, and trying to pick up something from the feed store to treat it with. That just ain't cool with Me. The animal deserves a vet visit, or someone else who will.

I fed live for many years, until I found out people started feeding F/T. So I tried it, and even the ones who had only had live their whole life switched with only a little effort on my part. So i don't buy they won't do it.

If they don't eat it, make them wait until their next scheduled feeding, and try again. Not in a couple days, but a full week at least. Try leaving it in the viv at night for them to find when all is quiet. (dead of course) No wait, you can't do that because you housed them together. But if you housed them separately like a responsible owner, you could. There are tricks to switching, it's been proven time and again that they WILL switch.


My humble opinion
Rick

 

[crotalusadamanteus]

Oh yeah, you mentioned 3 rats a week, is that in one sitting? Not good to feed every few days. You're sure to have problems at some point if you do.

 

[Psone]

Well thanks for your advice,
i didnt know they would be able to mate they are both over 3 years so who knows
i didnt know a argentine boa could mate with a red tail and actually produce babies,

And i only have them together i the Meantime while i am building a special cage that can house 2 snakes one on each side,with a barrier in the middle this will also be good,
for when and ifi do want them to mate,i heard the female has to be in special temps anyways,

Also i didnt feed all the medium rats at one sitting i fed them 1 every 2 days,
my argentine is fine but i went out and bought the red tail a jumbo rat so she should be goos to go for atleast 12 days,

And if a bad problem would arise i would surely go to the vet,but if the wet told me it was a medicine that i knew i could buy and administer myself that woul dbe what i would do,if anyone wants to see pics of the red tail let me know,

But thanks again for your advice i would like ot know more about this mating thing and what i should look out for.

 

[liquidleaf]

The female doesn't have to be at any special temps to breed, though some breeders do cool them a little before breeding. Many large breeders now do not reduce temps at all.

There are plenty of articles online about boa breeding, do some searches here and on other sites. Also, there are a few cheap books that cover the basics.

I'm not quite sure why you're saying this..

And if a bad problem would arise i would surely go to the vet,but if the wet told me it was a medicine that i knew i could buy and administer myself that woul dbe what i would do,

You should find a vet. No one can diagnose your animal for you online. Exotic animals do cost money to keep healthy.

And, if it hasn't already been pointed out, when acquiring any NEW animals or animals from different sources, they should be caged apart (in different rooms even) because anything the one has, the other, especially if kept in the same cage, will catch. This includes infections, worms, mites, and viruses.

That will double your vet bill. If you wait until the last moment to take your snake to the vet (ie 'if something serious happens), you'll likely wind up with a dead snake, because snakes don't show many signs of illness, and by the time they do show signs, it's usually serious and they may be close to death.

Even if you post pictures, no one can tell you for absolute certain what's wrong via the internet.

 

[Psone]

i have plenty of vets here, but you know how some vets can be crooks and i dont want to pay forty bucks for someone to just tell me a lie,i want to go to a few differant vets and see who i think is the best but i think most vets charge a fee just to look at your pet, so i am going to call around and see who i can find just to be safe.

i am going to look up on boa breeding i am thinking that since there like almost 2 differant snakes they may not mate but i coul dbe wrong also i am going to look up and see what i can find out to know if she is pregnant what to do cause i know these types of snakaes have live young.

 

[crotalusadamanteus]

That's why I posted a link to herp vets in your state, and Kevin gave you a link to a respected one.

Personally, I'd welcome a 40 dollar vet bill. Mine are never that cheap for my snakes.

 

[Psone]

No i mean its jsut 40 dollars to go to there office and look at it,if they have to treat it or give it a shot could be up to 150 so i will let you guys know what happens thanks for all of your help.

 

[hhmoore]

i am going to look up on boa breeding i am thinking that since there like almost 2 differant snakes they may not mate but i coul dbe wrong

You've already been told that Argentine boas (BCO) can Breed with Colombian boas (BCI), it has been proven time and time again. They are also not "like almost 2 differant snakes"...they are different subspecies of Boa constrictor, which means they are fairly close to being the same snake.

 

[liquidleaf]

Yes. "Salmontines" that you see advertised are Argentines crossed with hypo Columbians, they mate and produce young all the time. Do not assume things when keeping exotic pets, do your research.

All vets charge an "office visit" fee. They need to do this to stay in business, just like your family doctor does (though your medical insurance pays for most of that office visit). There aren't "free estimates" when it comes to veterinary care, so you need to understand that if you cannot afford occassional vet visits, you probably can't afford to take care of exotic pets.

Have you bothered contacting the vets names posted above? Even the one who is part of your local herpetological society, who is also a vet and might be more willing to help you out?

Don't nickel-and-dime the health of your pet.

 

[crotalusadamanteus]

i am going to look up on boa breeding i am thinking that since there like almost 2 differant snakes they may not mate but i coul dbe wrong also i am going to look up and see what i can find out to know if she is pregnant what to do cause i know these types of snakaes have live young.

You are not ready for breeding. I'll tell you that right now. Breeding is a big responsibility. You put the females health at risk each time you do it. It takes a lot out of them, they quit eating for 4 months or more, and some have been known to die from it. She has to be in good enough health to withstand the rigors of gestation.

You won't even take the BCo to the vet to get the eye checked out. That tells me you do not have the amount of concern for the animals that you are leading us to believe. When the female becomes gravid, and gets sick, (which MANY gravid females do) are you going to hold off on that too and risk her life?

Sorry, but I'm all for the animals going to someone who will foot the responsibility of their health. A boa is not the kind of snake to practice and learn with. There are more hardy species out there, that are more tolerant of husbandry mistakes, etc. Maybe you should start with one of them.


My 2¢
Rick

 

[Psone]

Tell me This,

Snakes have babies all the times in the wild and they dont go to the vet.
i dont know what your trying to get at here but i think you should go flame someone else,cause i take care of my snakes very well,

and like i said i do have other species of snakes i know when somethings wrong with one of my snakes. and you must not understand i take my pets to the vet.
i have called about five vets already and i amthinking about this one in parma,

so if your going to leave messages like that i recommend not leaving any cause it makes you look like a Flamer Goodbye.

 

[crotalusadamanteus]

I thought I held back pretty good myself. I'm not as eloquent as some, and ain't going to pretend to be. But I wasn't attacking, or flaming you. I was showing concern for the Boa.

Your own words made me draw those conclusions.

Good luck with your snakes.

 

[Psone]

Well,theres no need to show concern i know how to take care of animals and i surely wouldnt let one of my snakes die,

 

[crotalusadamanteus]

OKEE DOKEY

 

[Miss Tuniwha]

He wasn't flaming you AT ALL!!! I never saw one attack. All he stated were facts.

snakes breed when together.. no special nothing needed.

ANY good reptile owner knows to quarantine a new animal. Think about it.. if you KNOW this boa came from a bad pet store.. then why are you so sure that there are no internal parasites, etc.

you may love your snakes, but you are not being a responsible owner.

and a 40$ exam is cheaper then I can find! it is 60$ here to walk in the door.

and that eye cap? eye caps don't look like that *from what your pics showed*
you may just have a blind snake at this point *out of that eye*

It is not flaming you to give you constrictive criticism..

Remember many people on here breed for a living.

oh, and I breed boas, and NEVER change anything.. they just do the deed.

and a rat every 2 days is not good either.. give him bigger food less often.

not being mean.. just telling you the truth. you want an honest vet, are you gonna argue when he tells you things you dont want to hear also?

please do some more research.

thank you

 

[crotalusadamanteus]

Here, recommended reading. You can never know so much, that you can't learn some more.

http://home.att.net/~crinaustin/BoaGeneral.htm