If you're talking about the UF document, we've all read it.
-
Responding to email notices you receive.
**************************************************
In short, DON'T! Email notices are to ONLY alert you of a reply to your private message or your ad on this site. Replying to the email just wastes your time as it goes NOWHERE, and probably pisses off the person you thought you replied to when they think you just ignored them. So instead of complaining to me about your messages not being replied to from this site via email, please READ that email notice that plainly states what you need to do in order to reply to who you are trying to converse with.
-
IMPORTANT! PLEASE READ!! About the Google Adsense ads being displayed
=====================
Posted 08/15/2025
=====================
Yeah, I know. They are a pain in the butt. But they pay the bills to keep my server running. Just a fact of life, I am afraid.
Want to get rid of them? Simple. Just become a Contributor level member or above and they will be gone. -> Please click HERE."
Is that too much for me to ask of you to keep this site running? Well, sorry about that. I too wish I could get everything for free. But alas.....
=====================
Addendum: 01/10/2026
=====================
Google Adsense ad revenue for December, 2025 was just $30 over the cost of the lease for the server running this site. So, in effect, the money providing the incentive for me to continue running this site is coming SOLELY from the paid memberships and sponsorships here. Which honestly ain't much....
AV negative Breeders
- Thread starter JimD
- Start date
Quote:
And, what is good for the goose? wether you are deceitful or honest...selling a pos dragon is just that, the end result is a pos dragon sold
I disagree with this, if someone has to sell ones they know are positive, they have an obligation to disclose that to the buyer... no matter what. Not hide it like some did and do have deaths and sickness in their colony!
This is not something that just came up this year about testing, it has been going on for several years before there was EM or PCR available on live animals because there was a massive outbreadk of dying animals with being adneo positive and some of us were concerned our dragons may have been infected so we had them tested.
I know some have clear dragons beyond question as they had test more accurate than what is being stated here. PCR, EM, via blood and feces are not the only way to know and there are 2 much more accurate test that are being ignore but have many negative results. I have had some of those and most people that have had dragons for over a decade or lost one and had a necropsy with advance liver studies have 1 of those answers already, those are much higher negaitve statistic than the testing being done on fecal or blood which it seems the experts say may or may not be an adenovirus that is a problem. I would think any lab that does a necropsy with advance studies or does a liver bio can already give the best and accurate stats of positive and negatives and I know from the past you will find a lot of negatives.
Not only were they negative but after talking to Vicki and Rob years ago when this stated for me and being told by them all dragons have adenovirus and it was normal, I assumed the lab had to be wrong when given the results and made them pull the slides and check them again.... specifically for adeno and the response was there was no adeno present or any markers associated with illness from adeno!! Now why would someone tell me different?
__________________
There are some people who will continue to deny there is a problem even up to the point that their coffin lid is nailed shut. Soundproof coffins will be needed for these poor souls.
Elliott Jacobson
This is where I read it. There are a few more posts that talk about it also.
Again, not what I said but someone else.
Jim.
And, what is good for the goose? wether you are deceitful or honest...selling a pos dragon is just that, the end result is a pos dragon sold
I disagree with this, if someone has to sell ones they know are positive, they have an obligation to disclose that to the buyer... no matter what. Not hide it like some did and do have deaths and sickness in their colony!
This is not something that just came up this year about testing, it has been going on for several years before there was EM or PCR available on live animals because there was a massive outbreadk of dying animals with being adneo positive and some of us were concerned our dragons may have been infected so we had them tested.
I know some have clear dragons beyond question as they had test more accurate than what is being stated here. PCR, EM, via blood and feces are not the only way to know and there are 2 much more accurate test that are being ignore but have many negative results. I have had some of those and most people that have had dragons for over a decade or lost one and had a necropsy with advance liver studies have 1 of those answers already, those are much higher negaitve statistic than the testing being done on fecal or blood which it seems the experts say may or may not be an adenovirus that is a problem. I would think any lab that does a necropsy with advance studies or does a liver bio can already give the best and accurate stats of positive and negatives and I know from the past you will find a lot of negatives.
Not only were they negative but after talking to Vicki and Rob years ago when this stated for me and being told by them all dragons have adenovirus and it was normal, I assumed the lab had to be wrong when given the results and made them pull the slides and check them again.... specifically for adeno and the response was there was no adeno present or any markers associated with illness from adeno!! Now why would someone tell me different?
__________________
There are some people who will continue to deny there is a problem even up to the point that their coffin lid is nailed shut. Soundproof coffins will be needed for these poor souls.
Elliott Jacobson
This is where I read it. There are a few more posts that talk about it also.
Again, not what I said but someone else.
Jim.
That's your evidence? Sheesh... A rambling, poorly written post.
JimD said:
Not goin' there Jimbo. I don't feel like mud pig wrestling today. CYA
shrap
Freelance Philosopher
The tests she is referring to are for dead animals. The necropsy and the liver biopsy. These tests do exist, but are for dead animals. And she was referring to dead animals being tested when she was talking about these tests. I cant make it any clearer. Anyone who knows anything about animals should know that when a necropsy is mentioned it is about dead animals.
From Webster's Dictionary.
Necropsy: : an autopsy performed on an animal
Autopsy: : an examination of a body after death to determine the cause of death or the character and extent of changes produced by disease -- called also necropsy
Are we on the same page now?
From Webster's Dictionary.
Necropsy: : an autopsy performed on an animal
Autopsy: : an examination of a body after death to determine the cause of death or the character and extent of changes produced by disease -- called also necropsy
Are we on the same page now?
Wilomn
New member
Shrap, this tool jimd is too stupid to get it.
He's a for shore candidate to be on Ignore.
He's a for shore candidate to be on Ignore.
shrap
Freelance Philosopher
JimD said:
And as I said earlier, IN THIS THREAD, yes it can. But on MOST small animals the procedure itself will kill the animal because they have to operate and remove a section of the liver.
draggintails
New member
Post #15 JSRocket asks what are the two other more accurate tests mentioned
Post #22 JimD posts where he heard this, it is a post from CheriS...after the quote 3rd paragraph 2nd sentence.
CheriS is not referring to a necropsy in this sentence but 2 more accurate tests which can be performed on live animals which people are ignoring she says.
JimD was asking for information on these above referenced tests to the author of that original post. These tests could be very valuable if we can find out what they are and where they are available. Wes, I am sorry you have self esteem problems related to the size of your tool and that you are not very smart...but it is not proper to call others stupid because of your shortcomings.
Post #22 JimD posts where he heard this, it is a post from CheriS...after the quote 3rd paragraph 2nd sentence.
CheriS is not referring to a necropsy in this sentence but 2 more accurate tests which can be performed on live animals which people are ignoring she says.
JimD was asking for information on these above referenced tests to the author of that original post. These tests could be very valuable if we can find out what they are and where they are available. Wes, I am sorry you have self esteem problems related to the size of your tool and that you are not very smart...but it is not proper to call others stupid because of your shortcomings.
RAWDOG
New member
bi·op·sy (bps)
n. pl. bi·op·sies
1. The removal and examination of a sample of tissue from a living body for diagnostic purposes.
2. A sample so obtained.
tr.v. bi·op·sied, bi·op·sy·ing, bi·op·sies
To remove (tissue) from a living body for diagnostic purposes.
TheFreeDictionary
n. pl. bi·op·sies
1. The removal and examination of a sample of tissue from a living body for diagnostic purposes.
2. A sample so obtained.
tr.v. bi·op·sied, bi·op·sy·ing, bi·op·sies
To remove (tissue) from a living body for diagnostic purposes.
TheFreeDictionary
shrap
Freelance Philosopher
No Tammy she aint. She is plainly talking about necropsy's and liver biopsies.
Quote:"I have had some of those and most people that have had dragons for over a decade or lost one and had a necropsy with advance liver studies have 1 of those answers already, those are much higher negaitve statistic than the testing being done on fecal or blood which it seems the experts say may or may not be an adenovirus that is a problem. I would think any lab that does a necropsy with advance studies or does a liver bio can already give the best and accurate stats of positive and negatives and I know from the past you will find a lot of negatives."
See, she explicitly says NECROPSY and LIVER BIO.
Quote:"I have had some of those and most people that have had dragons for over a decade or lost one and had a necropsy with advance liver studies have 1 of those answers already, those are much higher negaitve statistic than the testing being done on fecal or blood which it seems the experts say may or may not be an adenovirus that is a problem. I would think any lab that does a necropsy with advance studies or does a liver bio can already give the best and accurate stats of positive and negatives and I know from the past you will find a lot of negatives."
See, she explicitly says NECROPSY and LIVER BIO.
RAWDOG
New member
biopsy
One entry found for biopsy.
Main Entry: bi·op·sy
Pronunciation: 'bI-"äp-sE
Function: noun
Inflected Form(s): plural -sies
Etymology: International Scientific Vocabulary 2bi- + -opsy (as in autopsy)
: the removal and examination of tissue, cells, or fluids from the living body
WebstersMerriam
One entry found for biopsy.
Main Entry: bi·op·sy
Pronunciation: 'bI-"äp-sE
Function: noun
Inflected Form(s): plural -sies
Etymology: International Scientific Vocabulary 2bi- + -opsy (as in autopsy)
: the removal and examination of tissue, cells, or fluids from the living body
WebstersMerriam
draggintails said:
Tammy, I was open to the idea that there were better tests. That letter from U of F says, that currently, the Nested PCR is the best way to go (on live animals). Obviously this is not automatically the final word on the subject.
draggintails
New member
No, shrap...we are discussing the "2 more accurate tests" she is telling us about in paragraph 3 (after the goose quote) sentence 2 of her original post which was copied into post #22 on this thread.
Where she tells us that there are 2 more accurate tests other than PCR and EM with many negative results......she is NOT talking about necropsies...please read it once again...that is what JSrocket meant when he asked what are the 2 "better" tests in post #15
Where she tells us that there are 2 more accurate tests other than PCR and EM with many negative results......she is NOT talking about necropsies...please read it once again...that is what JSrocket meant when he asked what are the 2 "better" tests in post #15
RAWDOG
New member
Percutaneous ultrasound-guided liver biopsies were conducted in 15 snakes using 18-gauge automatic biopsy devices. The liver samples collected ranged in size from 1.16 ± 0.40 mm to 8.3 ± 0.55 mm. Upon histologic examination, all biopsy samples were of diagnostic quality. Anesthesia with complete immobilization of the snake was necessary to allow proper selection of the target site and limit complications associated with biopsy collection. Percutaneous ultrasound-guided liver biopsy is a rapid, minimally invasive method for collecting liver tissue in snakes.
1Department of Small Animal Clinical Sciences, College of Veterinary Medicine, University of Florida. Gainesville, Florida 32610 (Isaza, Ackerman), and the Department of Large Animal Clinical Sciences, College of Veterinary Medicine, University of Florida. Gainesville, Florida 32610 (Schumacher).
1Department of Small Animal Clinical Sciences, College of Veterinary Medicine, University of Florida. Gainesville, Florida 32610 (Isaza, Ackerman), and the Department of Large Animal Clinical Sciences, College of Veterinary Medicine, University of Florida. Gainesville, Florida 32610 (Schumacher).
RAWDOG
New member
I just want the unbiased facts!!!