• Posted 12/19/2024.
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    I am still waiting on my developer to finish up on the Classifieds Control Panel so I can use it to encourage members into becoming paying members. Google Adsense has become a real burden on the viewing of this site, but honestly it is the ONLY source of income now that keeps it afloat. I tried offering disabling the ads being viewed by paying members, but apparently that is not enough incentive. Quite frankly, Google Adsense has dropped down to where it barely brings in enough daily to match even a single paid member per day. But it still gets the bills paid. But at what cost?

    So even without the classifieds control panel being complete, I believe I am going to have to disable those Google ads completely and likely disable some options here that have been free since going to the new platform. Like classified ad bumping, member name changes, and anything else I can use to encourage this site to be supported by the members instead of the Google Adsense ads.

    But there is risk involved. I will not pay out of pocket for very long during this last ditch experimental effort. If I find that the membership does not want to support this site with memberships, then I cannot support your being able to post your classified ads here for free. No, I am not intending to start charging for your posting ads here. I will just shut the site down and that will be it. I will be done with FaunaClassifieds. I certainly don't need this, and can live the rest of my life just fine without it. If I see that no one else really wants it to survive neither, then so be it. It goes away and you all can just go elsewhere to advertise your animals and merchandise.

    Not sure when this will take place, and I don't intend to give any further warning concerning the disabling of the Google Adsense. Just as there probably won't be any warning if I decide to close down this site. You will just come here and there will be some sort of message that the site is gone, and you have a nice day.

    I have been trying to make a go of this site for a very long time. And quite frankly, I am just tired of trying. I had hoped that enough people would be willing to help me help you all have a free outlet to offer your stuff for sale. But every year I see less and less people coming to this site, much less supporting it financially. That is fine. I tried. I retired the SerpenCo business about 14 years ago, so retiring out of this business completely is not that big if a step for me, nor will it be especially painful to do. When I was in Thailand, I did not check in here for three weeks. I didn't miss it even a little bit. So if you all want it to remain, it will be in your hands. I really don't care either way.

    =====================
    Some people have indicated that finding the method to contribute is rather difficult. And I have to admit, that it is not all that obvious. So to help, here is a thread to help as a quide. How to become a contributing member of FaunaClassifieds.

    And for the record, I will be shutting down the Google Adsense ads on January 1, 2025.
  • Responding to email notices you receive.
    **************************************************
    In short, DON'T! Email notices are to ONLY alert you of a reply to your private message or your ad on this site. Replying to the email just wastes your time as it goes NOWHERE, and probably pisses off the person you thought you replied to when they think you just ignored them. So instead of complaining to me about your messages not being replied to from this site via email, please READ that email notice that plainly states what you need to do in order to reply to who you are trying to converse with.

AV negative Breeders

JSrocket,

I am open to better tests too, if I can find them I will use them...I can't find them and asked Florida...he just tells me exactly what he wrote in the document. However, if someone knows of "2 more accurate tests that are being ignored" I will get on that wagon and participate.
 
How am I being biased?
 
So, the next question would be, are liver biopsies being done anywhere in dragons?
 
Tammy,

Here is CheriS email: [email protected]

Email her and ask what she was referring to since you dont believe me. Is that really that hard?
 
No Shrap, she is not offering us information on necropsies as being the 2 more accurate tests that are being igorned that are yeilding many negatives.
 
Tammy,

Here is CheriS email: [email protected]

Email her and ask what she was referring to since you dont believe me. Is that really that hard?
 
Come on RAWDOG..... TELL ME HOW I AM BEING BIASED. If you are going to accuse me of something then back it up.
 
This is going south fast.
The qeustions being asked.
Who has these negative colonies and where are these labs.
Shrap
These are serious questions. You yourself had said this doesnt even effect you as you dont even own a dragon. Most of us do and it matters to us.
Thanks.
Jim.
 
I know some have clear dragons beyond question as they had test more accurate than what is being stated here. PCR, EM, via blood and feces are not the only way to know and there are 2 much more accurate test that are being ignore but have many negative results.


Shrap, this is the sentence I am referring to..this a post to me several days ago. She uses the word "have" instead of "had" in referring to clear dragons, had would indicate the animal is not around anymore and the have indicates a current possesion.


If there is a more accurate test than the PCR and EM like she indicates then we need to be using that method or consider using it.
 
Honestly people, if you dont want to believe me to what she was referring to then fine. I dont really care.

But I gave you CheriS' email addy, the person who posted that info. Email her to go get clarification straight from the horses mouth. But none of you will use it to do so. It just proves you aint truly looking for answers, you are just looking for arguments. Otherwise you would email her and get an answer directly from her.

[email protected] That is the answer to all your questions. She made the posts you all are talking about. Why are you all making this into another argument when it is soooooooooo simple to email someone and get the info?
 
OK, did a little reading, and found that, yes, liver biopsies CAN be done on live dragons, but here's why they are not used:

(This is entirely my subjective interpretation)

Liver biopsy involves inserting a special needle into the animal's liver, and a "plug" of liver tissue is removed. This procedure is not without risk to to life of the animal.

It STILL produces a lot of false negatives, making it a much riskier, but not more effective test.
 
Come on RAWDOG..... TELL ME HOW I AM BEING BIASED. If you are going to accuse me of something then back it up.

Who said you were being biased?

You wrote:
And a liver biopsy is performed on dead animals as well in most cases. There are some live animals that a liver biopsy can be performed, but with

most small animals the procedure itself will most likely kill them because they have to operate and remove a section of the liver to test.

The tests she is referring to are for dead animals. The necropsy and the liver biopsy. These tests do exist, but are for dead animals.

And as I said earlier, IN THIS THREAD, yes it can. But on MOST small animals the procedure itself will kill the animal because they have to operate and remove a section of the liver.

I provided the references and definitions to what I am already aware of:

bi·op·sy (bps)
n. pl. bi·op·sies
1. The removal and examination of a sample of tissue from a living body for diagnostic purposes.
2. A sample so obtained.
tr.v. bi·op·sied, bi·op·sy·ing, bi·op·sies
To remove (tissue) from a living body for diagnostic purposes.

TheFreeDictionary

biopsy
One entry found for biopsy.
Main Entry: bi·op·sy
Pronunciation: 'bI-"äp-sE
Function: noun
Inflected Form(s): plural -sies
Etymology: International Scientific Vocabulary 2bi- + -opsy (as in autopsy)
: the removal and examination of tissue, cells, or fluids from the living body

WebstersMerriam

Percutaneous ultrasound-guided liver biopsies were conducted in 15 snakes using 18-gauge automatic biopsy devices. The liver samples collected ranged in size from 1.16 ± 0.40 mm to 8.3 ± 0.55 mm. Upon histologic examination, all biopsy samples were of diagnostic quality. Anesthesia with complete immobilization of the snake was necessary to allow proper selection of the target site and limit complications associated with biopsy collection. Percutaneous ultrasound-guided liver biopsy is a rapid, minimally invasive method for collecting liver tissue in snakes.

1Department of Small Animal Clinical Sciences, College of Veterinary Medicine, University of Florida. Gainesville, Florida 32610 (Isaza, Ackerman), and the Department of Large Animal Clinical Sciences, College of Veterinary Medicine, University of Florida. Gainesville, Florida 32610 (Schumacher).


You are wrong and I am pointing that out to the readers. The fact that I extract DNA everyday from breast biopsies from patients in clinical trials makes me pretty well qualified to answer this question. I refuse to get involved in the drama but I will be a resource for scientific information.
 
Tammy,

A liver bio can be done on a live animal, it use to be the ONLY way to determine if a bearded dragon had an adenovirus that was affecting it so I would think that was also detecting one that was having a negative affect on the animal, not a benign in case there is more than one strain. No other testing tells you if the dragon has actually got a type that may be affecting it and also that bio will look at other possibilities that may be making arn animal sick. That is also usually done with a blood draw also, this is in all vet medical books and was the common way to detect adeno PRIOR to PRC or EM which is fairyly recernt, within the last few years.

Again, I can not imagine that DR Stacey told you there was no other way but PRC and EM, which now it seems can not detect strains that may cause illness..... if there is more than one. My understanding is that needs to be researched and had not been done yet, so no one can answer it.

When I first started learning about adenovirus, this on a live and a necropsy on a dead animal was the only way PRC and EM came much later and any lab could do this. If further studies were needed, they sent it out to a contacted lab
__________________
There are some people who will continue to deny there is a problem even up to the point that their coffin lid is nailed shut. Soundproof coffins will be needed for these poor souls.
Elliott Jacobson



Jim.
 
Wrong about what? What tests CheriS was referring to? GO ASK HER WHAT SHE WAS REFERRING TO IF YOU DONT BELIEVE ME.

About liver biopsies in live small animals.... MY VET PERSONALLY TOLD ME THAT IN MANY SMALL ANIMALS THE PROCEDURE CAN BE FATAL. ANIMALS AND PEOPLE ARE DIFFERENT THINGS.

And testing the liver of a dead animal may not be called a liver biopsy, if I am wrong about that then excuse me. But I dont know every medical term in the book.
 
Anyway I am done here. Have at it since all you people want to do is split hairs and argue. That is not what I came her for.
 
Hey dawg, do you know the difference between a snake and a lizard? You know, the legs, ears, eyelids, that kind of stuff? There is also, particularly with smaller lizards like beardies, the fact that it is MUCH more difficult to put a lizard under than a snake.

Did you have weights for the SNAKES you use in your defense?

Let's at least compare apples to apples here.

You're so friggin smart you have to pull a doody like that to make your point?

You and that dumbass jimd belong together, in the ignore pile.

PILE being the key word there since you probably missed the humor.
 
Shrap,

So she is suggesting liver biopsy and necropsy as the 2 more accurate tests?

My lizards are alive and I do not want the biopsy, I can't comprehend that this would be mentioned for the live animals....
 
Wilomn.
If I was child like yourself I might get upset about your name calling.
If you have nothing to add to this post, start something in the BOI so we can act like children.
Thanks.
Jim.
 
draggintails said:
Shrap,

So she is suggesting liver biopsy and necropsy as the 2 more accurate tests?

My lizards are alive and I do not want the biopsy, I can't comprehend that this would be mentioned for the live animals....
Click to expand...

From KS, by Daniel S. Wentz, DVM

"The virus has been found in all types of tissue but is consistently found only in the liver and the small intestine. The problem with these tissues is that they are not always positive in affected animals. An ante mortem liver biopsy can be collected safely by an experienced reptile veterinarian. However, negative liver biopsies can occur in affected animals. Post mortem, liver and small intestine samples should be collected at a minimum, but all other tissues should also be taken."

This publication is not dated, however and could very possibly be outdated info, before the PCR was economically feasible, or even available.
 
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