Bad Guy Avangel Reptiles- parasitic reptiles, and more

[Kristi23]

I believe she is saying that Fed-Ex didn't have a properly labeled box to know anything was alive in there.

I know you know the proper way to ship. Styrofoam lined box. The outside should be labeled "Eublepharis Macularius" "2 leopard geckos" "Live Harmless Reptile".

At least have Live Harmless Reptile. The species and number can be on a paper inside (on top) or written outside. I have always written it outside.

 

[jusmebabee]

I've bought from small breeders and well known sellers.
I've never received a box (approx 45) with species name written on it.
They have all said the same simple thing "Live Harmless Reptiles".
I think adding anything else is a bit over kill.

 

[bcr229]

At least have Live Harmless Reptile.

This. I caught a FedEx counter worker tossing my incoming snake shipment from one hand to the other as she brought it from the back area for me to pick up at the hub. She thought "Perishable" meant something like perishable food, and she had no idea there was a live animal in the box.

Then I told her it was a baby snake and she shrieked, ran to the back, and someone else had to check me out.

 

[favrielle]

I've bought from small breeders and well known sellers.
I've never received a box (approx 45) with species name written on it.
They have all said the same simple thing "Live Harmless Reptiles".
I think adding anything else is a bit over kill.

Actually, Reptiles Express includes it as part of their required shipping guidelines. Ship Your Reptiles requires you to label the box as "Live Harmless Reptile" and have the species info on paperwork inside the top flap.

Either way, just labelling the box as "Perishable" without any of the additional labelling is not acceptable.

 

[Kristi23]

Actually, Reptiles Express includes it as part of their required shipping guidelines. Ship Your Reptiles requires you to label the box as "Live Harmless Reptile" and have the species info on paperwork inside the top flap.

Either way, just labelling the box as "Perishable" without any of the additional labelling is not acceptable.

Exactly. That is the way I was taught and most breeders did it that way 7-8 years ago. I still label the same way now as I did back then. I receive some with just live harmless reptile, but I still receive many with the full info on it. But with the Lacey Act, it must have Live Harmless Reptile on the outside. I prefer to stick to the old way with all the info.

 

[Kristi23]

When I say most breeders, I mean leopard gecko breeders since that's mostly who I deal with.

 

[coolbord9]

This thread dragged on, I just want to make sure I have the gist of it:
Stressed/thin(er than advertised) geckos have a pinworm outbreak, and Chaz comes out too aggressive after reading 4 pages of accusations of stolen valor?

 

[Kristi23]

This thread dragged on, I just want to make sure I have the gist of it:
Stressed/thin(er than advertised) geckos have a pinworm outbreak, and Chaz comes out too aggressive after reading 4 pages of accusations of stolen valor?

Geckos with worms and very thin/unhealthy. Improper shipping. Those are the main things I've seen so far.

 

[nikki9093]

This thread dragged on, I just want to make sure I have the gist of it:
Stressed/thin(er than advertised) geckos have a pinworm outbreak, and Chaz comes out too aggressive after reading 4 pages of accusations of stolen valor?

You make it sound comical. Its really not. Its not just the pinworm issue, or the skinny issue, its the fact that its not just one animal. Thats a fluke. Its two or more of these animals that are ill, underweight, and definitely NOT the color they are suppose to be. Even after a shed. Its a shipping issue and they way they arrived. Granted, after the animal leaves the breeder, the shipping company does what it likes to the boxes, but the security and welfare within that box is totally on the shipper and not the company he or she uses to ship. AND, It may drag out even longer. I have two vids to post still.

The skinny I have actually was only stressed for two days. His lack of body fat made it necessary to hand feed him slurry so regain some type of weight as soon as he could. He was not eating, but did when presented with the slurry. It helped him a lot. That was last week. As of today, well, yesterday, he and the wormy female have eaten some dubia, but nothing else. The other two bigger ones, well, the male has eaten, but only a couple dubia. The other bigger female, nothing. No fecal that was usable has come from the bigger leos as of yet. Its a waiting game for test results and poop.

 

[coolbord9]

The skinny I have actually was only stressed for two days. His lack of body fat made it necessary to hand feed him slurry so regain some type of weight as soon as he could.

You started hand feeding this animal within 2 days of arrival?

How many of these geckos are wild caught? How many of the geckos that look bad are wild caught? I apologize if it was earlier in the thread I must have missed it.



I am sorry that you feel that I am laughing about the health/wellbeing of your geckos, this is certainly not the case. I also obviously don't condone knowingly selling animals that are not in perfect health. I am not trying to criticize you, I am trying to understand the situation to decide where my business does and does not go.

 

[favrielle]

You started hand feeding this animal within 2 days of arrival?

How many of these geckos are wild caught? How many of the geckos that look bad are wild caught? I apologize if it was earlier in the thread I must have missed it.

With the genetics involved, there's no way these were wild caught, even if finding such in the U.S. were possible. As far as I know, the closest you could get to a "wild caught leopard gecko" here is an F1 offspring of wild-caught parents, imported from Europe. Whatever the issues involved, this thread has nothing to do with fresh import/wild caught geckos.

 

[nikki9093]

YeS I actually did. I had to. He has NO FAT STORES. NOTHING. Did you not read that? or SEE IT? You can not test fecal without fecal. I needed SOMETHING. I got them on Tuesday, the 31st of March. I let them settle for about two days. I got a small dab of poop from the little tangerine female, then a better one after I gave her slurry, and it was not normal looking. SHE was the wormy one, so far. I offered mealworms on day one of arrival... I offered food for to all of them, and no one ate. even NOW, they won't eat out of the bowls, but i can drop them in front of them, and they grab it up. I know about letting them settle in. I hate having ANY animal shipped.It is stressful, but that male, he was in need...he couldn't go without. He's too skinny and I needed to get calories in his body. Intervention was needed to make sure this lil guy survived. Going a week or two without eating food was not an option. IF he had a heavier body frame. and more fat, there would have been no issue leaving him alone for a week or so, but it was not a realistic thing that could be done. ALL but one has eaten on their own, so my hand feeding is not needed now. UNLESS I can not get his weight to where it should be, I won't need to give him repta-boost again. I actually have carnivore care and critical care coming also.

None are wild caught...as in from the wild. ONE male is of "wild caught lines". The Ray Hine x hypo female, she is the off-spring of that male. Bubba is what I named him. She is not eating still. Not that she is skinny tho. She was the biggest of the bunch, with enough fat stores to go a few weeks of not wanting to eat if she chose to. I also have almost ALL my females here ovulating, so maybe that triggered her to start too. ANYTHING at this point is possible.

Today I will be assessing all of them again. Feeding and cleaning...I will also take up-to-date pics of them all for my records. I will pop in some photos here too.

 

[mikew1234]

Well everything is from "wc lines at some point. Point of it all is that they're likely 10-20 generations into cb. There's no way worms show up in a healthy collection.

 

[Kristi23]

Well everything is from "wc lines at some point. Point of it all is that they're likely 10-20 generations into cb. There's no way worms show up in a healthy collection.

Pinworms can show up in a healthy animal if it is very stressed (like from shipping). They get them from insects. But those worms generally go away quickly and don't bother the animal. I do have concerns that these geckos have other worms that are not visible to the naked eye and that's what is causing them to lose so much weight. They may one type of worm or many.

Most geckos have a small amount of parasites. It's when they are ill or extremely stressed that they multiply to levels that are unhealthy. Until they get fecals done, we won't know what types they have. We just know that there is something wrong because they are super skinny and don't look healthy.

And leopard geckos in the US are all captive bred. This isn't a reply to the quote above, but the other person that questioned it.

 

[coolbord9]

Nikki I am not attacking you, please stop yelling at me. (and patronizing me about basic tests?)

My understanding is that pinworms are typically a symptom, rather than the cause of a problem. In this case, I would like to get all the info I can to try to illuminate the cause of the worms. Was it simply stress due to a degradation of husbandry quality, or is there a more sinister underlying condition? Hopefully your tests will tell.

PS: fingers crossed that crypto test is negative, that stuff is so hard to kill

 

[nikki9093]

Im crossing my fingers too. And my "yelling" was my emphasizing what was already noted. Apologies if it seemed that I was. My frustration level and blood pressure is out of the ballpark on this whole situation.

Until i get at least one viable fecal from each (the skinny male included) I won't know much of anything. I got some from that little females, but only enough to get the pics of the worms she has. There was not much to work with. The crypto test for Oswald, the skinny, got to the lab today, but being the weekend, it will be looked at sometime next week. So, it may be 3-7 days after they look at it before I hear anything.

Today is hornworm experiment day. I will see if I can get the bigger female to eat something.

 

[coolbord9]

Good luck with the worms, and I am sorry for what you are having to go through. Are you considering further tests?

 

[nikki9093]

When I have the poop to do a full panel at the vets from all of them, you better believe it. I can treat for pinworms, and pretty much the spectrum, but there may be things that only the vet can treat that I don't have the right meds for.

AND, here is Oswald, after going on week number two...he has gained 3 grams. For him, thats a lot. Amazing what a couple pinworm treatments, calcium with vitamins and food will do to a leos body. He is an active eater too. NOW, I wait for fresh poop. lol. He ate a hornworm, and two big dubias. He also ate all his mealworms that were in there, so yeah....

 

[Flashpoint]

Congrats Nikki! He's looking much better, considering everything the poor thing has been through.

 

[Flashpoint]

@Ross, yeah, these animals are never wc anymore. At best, as mentioned, they are F1. And those are pretty rare nowadays. But I understand why you asked, since wc animals are typically infested with parasites like this, so always good to check. IMO, it was conditions at the breeders that caused the stress that instigated the infestation. Since they arrived skinny, the infestation clearly didn't happen from the shipping stress as was suggested by the breeder at one point. We all hope it's not crypto

Also, on the topic of the photo discrepancy... I have taken several awesome pictures of my bright orange enigma with my iPhone that were very true to color. Not all of them are true to color, but i have a few that are. Just because you have the fanciest camera and the best setup doesn't mean your photos are more accurate, or extremely less accurate for not having that stuff. Even the photos Chaz showed weren't that extremely different. But the color difference between his photos and the photos from Nikki and Kayla is so great that I also tend to think they were altered somehow. Whether altered photos or fed something to enhance the color, I can't say for certain. Eyes also don't lie either, and I don't think Nikki and Kayla would be so concerned about the photo discrepancy if they didn't look so extremely dull in comparison to the advertised photo to their own eyes, in person. I'd be concerned too. Maybe they'll color up as they get the worms out of their systems and start feeling better. I sure hope so, If the old photos of Oswald are even the least bit accurate, he could be a gorgeous gecko.