Bad Dragon Dealer, Colby Laidlaw

[Neverland Dragons]

A dehydrated dragon may have wrinkled skin and minor symptoms. This girl has her ribs showing. She has not fat stores what so ever. When are you going to step up and accept responsibility for this situation? The most damaging part of this comes from your own emails, not from Rachel.

 

[colbyandamber]

Nothing more to say

I have nothing more to say. As I've stated before- everyone has a right to he/she's own opinion. This is a deal gone very wrong- and there's no way/sense in trying to prove to the world what I already know, and what Ms. Puckett knows-but is misconstrueing.
Colby and Amber

 

[LV426]

She's 16 1/2" long and weighs 356g. I don't have a way to scan the vet report until Tuesday but I do have picture proof.

http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y11/LV-426/Scale.jpg

 

[CheriS]

Colby,

It may be very possible that you have no idea what a healthy dragon is, but this dragon is extremely ill, it did not happen in shipping, or since the dragon has been with her.

Even your own photo on the ad for sale and that you provided shows a dragon sick with depleted fat pads, spine showing and ribs sticking out through skin... thats an indicator of something serious going wrong and you had to have seen that, if you look close in your own photo of the ad, it does show it. The lighting and shadow make's it appear she is normal on the head, until you look close and can see she is not.

You shipped out a dragon that was crashing, not one just out of a normal brumation, but one that was crashing badly, your own photo's show that... and the stress of shipping a critical ill dragon is just getting her there faster... you need to cut your loses to a reputation you harmed and continue to trash yourself

This is YOUR photo from the ad, look at the back of her head, look at her spine and look at her ribs showing. Now, open your eyes and look again

 

[Dennis Hultman]

This is the date of the first email posted, when she arrived.

Date: Feb 14, 2006 12:34 PM
Subject: Re: Dragon Auction
To: colby laidlaw <[email protected]>

Colby,
She's here and alive but she's REALLY skinny.

This is the date when she was taken to the Vet.

From: LV426 <[email protected]>
Date: Feb 15, 2006 5:55 PM
Subject: Re: Dragon Auction
To: colby laidlaw <[email protected]>

Well this is why she is acting this way.
Protozoans, some nematodes, coccidea oocysts, no live ones but still not good.

In her care for one day beforehand!

This is the date you blame the buyer.

From: colby laidlaw <[email protected]>
Date: Feb 16, 2006 2:35 PM
Subject: Re: Dragon Auction
I've decided that i'm not sending a refund- it's sickening to me that she looks the wya she does- and it akes me wonder what kind of a set up you had prepared for her- and what food you've been offering.

Two Days!!

Rachel,
What you have proven to me- is not only that you are a poor pet owner, but
you are a poor person as well.  You didnt even wait until this issue got
resolved - before you went to every website you knew to slap across a
bulletin board of slanderous remarks about me.  YES slanderous!  You have made me out to be an animal abuser, christ, you honestly DO NOT know me.

I can’t think of anyway to address you professionally or without using words that would lead to a suspension. So, plain and simple, In my humble opinion, Buyer Beware!
Thank you Rachel, for posting this thread.

In YOUR care- her health depleted

as well as get the friends I have who are big in the reptile business to vouge for me
that YOU are the one at fault.

Bring them on! You disgust me, trying to intimidate her. Not one single reputable breeder will come on here and defend you.

 

[ByRandom]

I never claimed to be a dragon breeder, I never claimed to be an expert, I never claimed a live delivery guarentee,

In this business it is implied that live arrival/delivery is guaranteed. It's pretty much selfexplanitory that if we, as consumers/breeders/hobbyists/enthusiasts purchase an animal from an individual or a company, that we expect the animal to be alive whenever the box is opened.

I never claimed a satisfaction guarentee, I never claimed to be any more then a guy who had a dragon to sell- with good intentions.

You don't have to claim a satisfication guarantee. It is implied that, if you are a moral and righteous human being that you would honor your animals instead of laying the blame squarely upon Rachel's shoulders whenever it is blatant that this animal was ill far before it ever entered Rachel's care. Good intentions? I think not.

If you were a person with good intentions then you wouldn't have posted this animal for sale to begin with. The animal was severely emaciated in the picture that was on your ad. If you had good intentions, then you would have allowed her (the dragon) a sufficient amount of time to rehydrate herself, eat, and gain weight after brumation before even considering selling her. It is physically impossible for the dragon to have lost so much weight, to have become so dehydrated, and such within the day or two that Rachel had her in her possession. The dragon could have not eaten for those two days, as well as not drank a single drop of water, and not look like that.

Buyer Beware!

I agree 100%. Buyer/Seller/Human Population Beware!

 

[Dennis Hultman]

I can go as far as to have MY vet look at pictures of how
she was before and how she is now- and get her oppinion on it, as well as
get the friends I have who are big in the reptile business to vouge for me
that YOU are the one at fault. This is outragous, and if you do not remove
your slander- I will be seeking legal advice, as this is my reputation not
only as a reptile breeder

First line- Worthless and tainted coming from YOUR friend.

I dont have a mountain of money to send to you for vet bills. Especially because my vet here and I are good friends

We can also see why you will not correct this issue and why the animal is in the condition that it is. Money!
Last Line-

I will be seeking legal advice, as this is my reputation not only as a reptile breeder

Threatening her because of harming your reputation as a breeder?

Your Quote!

I never claimed to be a dragon breeder, I never claimed to be an expert, I never claimed a live delivery guarentee, I never claimed a satisfaction guarentee, I never claimed to be any more then a guy who had a dragon to sell - with good intentions. She e-mailed and asked about it- I responded telling her what I thought becuase she was active and healthy looking before she left.
There was no obligations or contracts to speak of. This dragon was a pet- who was bred TWO years ago- TWICE- she bore two clutches. So overbreeding is out of the question. Where you guys get off on justifying these accusations is beyond me.

You just said, You’re just a guy selling a dragon. You can’t have it both ways!

You did more to harm your own reputation in that one post then anyone ever could.

 

[LV426]

Thank you Dennis.

This has certainly been a lesson learned and from now on before I buy a dragon I'm having CheriS look at them first. She's shown me more in a few posts than I ever would have picked up on my own.

 

[colbyandamber]

From Amber

Someone posted earlier- I wonder where Amber is and what she has to say. This is Amber- I have been posting these ads in defense of Colby-and have said WE WE WE. I live in Seattle- yes far away from Minnesota- but I make frequent visits home. We- TOGETHER- have cared for numerous animals. Never has this happened. Speaking of me being in Seattle- I'm awefully close to Everett- and would like to meet up with Rachel- to see this dragon in person- and I'd also like to speak with this vet. It just isnt feesible that her health depleted so quickly like that. We aren't TRYING to place the blame on Rachel. We ADMIT that she may have been sick- but for goodness sakes- we didnt KNOW that she had internal parasites- otherwise we'd have taken them in. It's just really hard to see an otherwise healthy dragon (yes- healthy is what we thought she was- even though she was thin) get sent off- then all of a sudden get an e-mail from a lady saying that the dragon is in horrible condition- our heads were spinning! What could have gone wrong- is all we could think of. Knowing that she was okay (in our opinion) when she was sent off- it's hard to want to refund the money as WELL as pay for vet bills for a lady saying that she's deathly sick. Of course we want the best for this dragon- and if that means having to refund Rachels money- and pay for these vet bills then SO BE IT. We can DO that- we're not rich- but we dont want this dragon to die anymore then any of you do. We never intentionally sent a sick dragon. And we're sorry that we did- profusely. Had we have known- we never would have sent her. And we're sorry that you people believe that we are such evil-doers. And some of the things we said- I can understand that it angers you- but we're just trying to defend ourselves. This just ISNT the dragon we knew. And some of the things this lady is saying- just doesnt add up. She SAW the pictures of how she looked- and she bought THAT dragon. She GOT THAT dragon. If she thought that she looked sickly from the pictures- why did she even buy her? What do you want us to do? We did NOT intentionally send a sick dragon- and we DO want what is best for this animal.

 

[colbyandamber]

From Colby

It should be fairly obvious that we didnt mean to do anyone any wrong. We used our real names, our real address, we weren't trying to hide behind anything. We ARE sorry- we feel just as bad as you do. And we're willing to make this right in any way we can. It's just pretty bad that people just jump on someones side without knowing the circumstances and hearing the whole story. We just dont want to be known as bad people- because we're anything but that.

 

[colbyandamber]

To Rachel

Rachel, if you want to resolve this- e-mail me. We are not bad people and dispite what you may think- we do care for that dragon. We never intended to rip you off or any such thing. We never intentionally sold you a sick reptile. Nor would we do so to anyone. You bought her based on that picture- so you obviously thought she was in good condition- so I guess that makes you no more of a reptile expert then we are. Resolution can be resolved through EMAIL- it is not doing any good getting everybody and their brother involved. I understand everyone cares about an animal being neglected- which is a good thing- but there is NO intentional neglect here.

 

[colbyandamber]

Colby is a real standup guy, pays when he says etc. Do not hesitate to do bussiness with this guy, he is a real straight shooter. Good to see a newer guy doing things right. Craig Kade

Does this say anything?

 

[LV426]

I never said I was an expert. I didn't notice key elements I admit that. However what you said was she was a happy healthy dragon, that is not what I got. I've emailed you. The ball is in your court.

 

[colbyandamber]

We never claimed to be experts either!


I would just like the money I paid for her returned.


And we can do that. I will send it to you when I can. What are we going to do about this forum thing though? There's how many people here thinking we are horrible people? And because of this thing- they'd never consider dealing with us. Any future we may have had- is therefore gone. So I feel that we are outed way more then you. Is this fair? Where would you like the payment sent to?

 

[LV426]

Colby has offered to refund my money so we shall consider this matter closed pending confirmation.

 

[Dennis Hultman]

Does this say anything?

Yes, it says you’re a great customer.

And we can do that. I will send it to you when I can. What are we going to do about this forum thing though? There's how many people here thinking we are horrible people? And because of this thing- they'd never consider dealing with us. Any future we may have had- is therefore gone.

The true measure, is how you handle situations when they don’t go as planed. This situation was not handled well. There are many people on this forum have made mistakes such as this and they were willing to learn from those mistakes, address them and move on.

So I feel that we are outed way more then you. Is this fair?

Yes, the mistakes were made on your part. You are now willing to correct them, which will also be here for all to see. That is a positive.

Colby has offered to refund my money so we shall consider this matter closed pending confirmation.

This is right course of action, as far as the business aspect of this thread.

Far as heath and care of this animal-

would like to meet up with Rachel- to see this dragon in person- and I'd also like to speak with this vet.

That’s a reasonable request. Maybe, the both of you could meet at the veterinarian’s office. I would say the best course of action, would be for you to at least speak with the Vet, to give you a better understanding of what everyone here is trying to explain.

 

[CheriS]

Someone posted earlier- I wonder where Amber is and what she has to say.

I asked, as it was obvious that the person who wrote those first few emails, was not the same person who wrote the later ones. It switched to correct grammar and punctuation with the email written on Date: Feb 15, 2006 6:31 PM. Yet they were all signed Colby, not Amber. There is a reason to get someone admitting who is who and who is writing things as many things on this board has shown in the past with "partners".

Amber, a dragon can appear to go down fast when it already was sick, especially when they are shipped and exposed to altitudes, pressurized and swinging heat and cold temperatures. By the time they are showing visually being ill, they are well into being seriously sick. But, this dragon has collapsed fat pads even before she was shipped. She was already well on her way to crashing. The ad photos shows it, an experienced person would have seen that, a new person just getting into dragons would have missed it. Once she was shipped being like she was, it was just hours before she totally crashed from the additional stress. You admit she was thin, did you never question why... dragons do not just get thin for no reason.

Since you live so close and not in MN like the impression was made on others, it is unfortunate that you did not offer to come see the dragon in the first place and since the dragon knows you, offer to assist in her care or done whatever was within your power to help her recover and correct the situation with the buyer. At least you are offering to do that know and that does go a long way toward clearing both you and Colby's name. Will this thread be forgotten? No, and it should not be, it's a lesson in what not to do initially when a buyer is not satisfied with a purchase, has grounds and notifies the seller timely. ALSO, to never ship a dragon that is not in peak condition, find out why an animal is thin with collapsed fat pads, don't just say give it wax worms or sell it.

I also wonder when the last time was that you saw this dragon in person, cared for it and who was the one that did the actual shipping?

I do hope you follow through with Rachel and made this right for her and the dragon. It's the right thing to do

 

[Neverland Dragons]

Colby, this thread is here to stay. The best thing you can do it resolve this fairly, for all to see. Cheri S had a great idea of Amber meeting at the Vet with Rachel. The vet could go over her findings and you guys might learn something. It is just painfully obvious that this girl is critically ill. You saying she wasn't does not make sense and it makes it appear that you are trying to cover up selling a sick dragon. Yes, it is possible that you didn't realize how sick this girl is. If you have ever bred dragons or had them for an extended period of time, you should KNOW something is wrong with this female. It is your responsibility as seller to know whether or not this animal is healthy before selling her. So, this thread can serve a purpose for you. You can step back and realize that this girl was ill and should not have been sold. I think Amber meeting with the vet would help clarify this for you. It should also be a lesson in customer service. You really did handle this poorly. Rachel expressed her concerns from the very beginning. You could have resolved it and it may have never been brought here. Everyone is watching to see what you do. You can accept responsibility and make this right, for Rachel and the bearded dragon. Where it goes from here really is up to you.

 

[clarinet45]

She SAW the pictures of how she looked- and she bought THAT dragon. She GOT THAT dragon. If she thought that she looked sickly from the pictures- why did she even buy her?

THAT is the sadest excuse i have ever read.

100% Buyer Beware

 

[Powderfinger]

Colby and Amber have agreed to refund the purchase price, so they should be spared further bashing until they have had time to do so...

Hopefully the dragon will pull through and be able to recover.

For the record, I would contact Cheri as well if I wanted info or opinions on BDs!!! I have been to her home and have seen her reptiles, and they are very nice.


Now....that Axe guy is another story...LMAO!!!!