Bad Guy Beware Evan Stahl from Stahl Reptiles!

[Peter Seay]

Hey,
New here to this forum.

Here we go, my first post will get me banned, but honestly, I'm sick of this trend on forums. This is how it goes; the moderators pick on those being picked on, threaten to ban them, while blissfully turning away from all of the other rule-breakers. HELLO! Was the original topic not covered? Now we are reduced to a bunch of you, likely older men who should have much better things to do with their time, ridiculing each other, WAYY off topic, just for a hit below the belt. And the moderators turn a blind eye. I don't, and NOR DO ONE OF YOU BESIDES THE OP know Mr. Stahl. I think you would do well to keep your mouths shut about someone whom you have done NO BUSINESS with EVER in your lives. How do you know the OP is not lying to you? What unrefutable proof has been presented here for either side?
So, I would say, though the ads here on fauna are top-knotch, the advertising capabilities are unmatched, I find the way situations are handled throughout his BOI FAR from how it should be run, and this is definitely not HOW it could be run. Want to clean it up? Start with 3-day mutes of whoever keeps running their mouth about a situation which they aren't involved in. And don't threaten and ridicule those for behaving in a certain manner by YOURSELF behaving in that same exact manner. Please set an example by behavior.
So, how about we all either shut our mouths, or start talking in the form of proof, shall we?

 

[meowmeowkazoo]

Hey,
New here to this forum.

Here we go, my first post will get me banned, but honestly, I'm sick of this trend on forums. This is how it goes; the moderators pick on those being picked on, threaten to ban them, while blissfully turning away from all of the other rule-breakers. HELLO! Was the original topic not covered? Now we are reduced to a bunch of you, likely older men who should have much better things to do with their time, ridiculing each other, WAYY off topic, just for a hit below the belt. And the moderators turn a blind eye. I don't, and NOR DO ONE OF YOU BESIDES THE OP know Mr. Stahl. I think you would do well to keep your mouths shut about someone whom you have done NO BUSINESS with EVER in your lives. How do you know the OP is not lying to you? What unrefutable proof has been presented here for either side?
So, I would say, though the ads here on fauna are top-knotch, the advertising capabilities are unmatched, I find the way situations are handled throughout his BOI FAR from how it should be run, and this is definitely not HOW it could be run. Want to clean it up? Start with 3-day mutes of whoever keeps running their mouth about a situation which they aren't involved in. And don't threaten and ridicule those for behaving in a certain manner by YOURSELF behaving in that same exact manner. Please set an example by behavior.
So, how about we all either shut our mouths, or start talking in the form of proof, shall we?

Rich isn't just a moderator, he is the owner of the site. He's entitled to run it however he pleases, regardless of whether or not you approve. I'm sure if he had a penny for every time some self-important jerk decided to criticize him, he'd be able to retire on that alone. Fauna is a privilege, not a right. If you don't like how he runs the forum, make your own and run it however you want.

And lurk more. Spend more time reading the BOI and maybe you'll understand why it is run this way. Heck, maybe try reading this entire thread before commenting. The "bad guy" here admitted to keeping the money of the OP, and eventually refunded it. Saying that the OP could be lying is ridiculous at this point.

I don't think I would buy from (or sell to) either the OP or Mr. Stahl at this point. There was a lot of headache and drama that could have easily been avoided, but they both seem fairly high strung. I do commend Mr. Stahl for refunding the OP, though.

 

[hhmoore]

Hey,
New here to this forum.

Here we go, my first post will get me banned, but honestly, I'm sick of this trend on forums. This is how it goes; the moderators pick on those being picked on, threaten to ban them, while blissfully turning away from all of the other rule-breakers. HELLO! Was the original topic not covered? Now we are reduced to a bunch of you, likely older men who should have much better things to do with their time, ridiculing each other, WAYY off topic, just for a hit below the belt. And the moderators turn a blind eye. I don't, and NOR DO ONE OF YOU BESIDES THE OP know Mr. Stahl. I think you would do well to keep your mouths shut about someone whom you have done NO BUSINESS with EVER in your lives. How do you know the OP is not lying to you? What unrefutable proof has been presented here for either side?
So, I would say, though the ads here on fauna are top-knotch, the advertising capabilities are unmatched, I find the way situations are handled throughout his BOI FAR from how it should be run, and this is definitely not HOW it could be run. Want to clean it up? Start with 3-day mutes of whoever keeps running their mouth about a situation which they aren't involved in. And don't threaten and ridicule those for behaving in a certain manner by YOURSELF behaving in that same exact manner. Please set an example by behavior.
So, how about we all either shut our mouths, or start talking in the form of proof, shall we?

Since you are admittedly new here, you might want to take the time to get a clue about how things work before you start spouting off. I'm not going to respond in detail to the comments, because most of it was irrelevant to this thread. If you have something to say about how things are done on this site, use the Fauna Feedback Forum.

 

[hhmoore]

Oh, btw, I have done business with Evan Stahl in the past...have you?

 

[WebSlave]

Hey,
New here to this forum.

Here we go, my first post will get me banned, but honestly, I'm sick of this trend on forums. This is how it goes; the moderators pick on those being picked on, threaten to ban them, while blissfully turning away from all of the other rule-breakers. HELLO! Was the original topic not covered? Now we are reduced to a bunch of you, likely older men who should have much better things to do with their time, ridiculing each other, WAYY off topic, just for a hit below the belt. And the moderators turn a blind eye. I don't, and NOR DO ONE OF YOU BESIDES THE OP know Mr. Stahl. I think you would do well to keep your mouths shut about someone whom you have done NO BUSINESS with EVER in your lives. How do you know the OP is not lying to you? What unrefutable proof has been presented here for either side?
So, I would say, though the ads here on fauna are top-knotch, the advertising capabilities are unmatched, I find the way situations are handled throughout his BOI FAR from how it should be run, and this is definitely not HOW it could be run. Want to clean it up? Start with 3-day mutes of whoever keeps running their mouth about a situation which they aren't involved in. And don't threaten and ridicule those for behaving in a certain manner by YOURSELF behaving in that same exact manner. Please set an example by behavior.
So, how about we all either shut our mouths, or start talking in the form of proof, shall we?

Eh, back seat drivers.... Don't you just LOVE 'em?

Warning: Please note that my warning to Evan about posting off topic material in this thread concerning how I run this site most definitely applies to everyone else as well. If you want to discuss that topic, then that is what the Feedback Forum is here for. Please don't clutter up unrelated threads of this nature with such material.

 

[turtlepimp]

After reading 15 pages of the same topic being beaten to death, Sierra got more than she deserved monitarily. From pre spending her tax return, to prematurely filing a complaint with Paypal, Evan Stahl definately gave more than I would have. But to take a deposit on animals that a customer openly states they do not have the money for is a double edged sword. Siera might have unknown obligations against her refund that she doesn't know about. On Evan side, what if an animal gets sick or in this case, weather.

It teaches us that in a perfect world, animals are paid for, we ship them, our shippers do thier part, the animal eats and thrives, and we go on to the next. But in a less than perfect world, things can go south in a hurry.

I applaud Mr. Stahl for manning up and issueing a full refund where most would keep the deposit and deduct any fees. Even if the timeframe was unaccptable to most, but I understand why he did what he did. Ms. Sierra seemed only to lack focus and comprehension that any transaction in any part of the country, weather will be a first thought for the sake of the animals. It seems all the trouble stemmed from Sierras inability to comprehend that a dead snake is not worth the "gotta have it now" mentality of many behind the keyboard.

I would certainly buy from Evan Stahl based on my ability to pay attention. It seems the quality of his animals rarely come into question. And his buisness ethics seem to be inline with a proper buisness. But because of customers like Siera, I stopped sellling my offspring to the general public four years ago. Too many people lack the social skills as well as comprehension of a little thing called TOS.

Andrew Sury
Keeper of many turtles

 

[Fangthane]

From pre spending her tax return, to prematurely filing a complaint with Paypal, Evan Stahl definately gave more than I would have.

You're awfully quick to believe the guy who - despite crying like a baby about the injustice of anyone being able to make unsubstantiated claims - absolutely refuses to back that statement up. The context clues tell a different story. In the posted communications, he never once references the PayPal dispute until 4/3. Nearly a month after we first see the OP asking for a refund. No one finds it odd that his refusal wouldn't come with some reference to the dispute that she supposedly already initiated?

From: Sierra <[email protected]>
To: evansnakes <[email protected]>
Sent: Tue, Mar 5, 2013 1:23 pm
Subject: Re: Message about: Super Bright & Clean Killer Bee Female from [email protected]

Is there a way to just get a refund and let you resell the animals?....

His reply:

On Mar 5, 2013, at 12:27 PM, [email protected] wrote:

no, this is life with live animals. you really cant wait a few days?...

If - according to his claims - she'd already filed the PayPal dispute, why would he still be asking her to wait "a few days"? Doesn't make any sense to me. Especially considering the tone of the following email, which is his first time referencing the PayPal claim:

On Apr 3, 2013, at 3:47 PM, [email protected] wrote:

did you really think that I would refund or ship you when you had a claim open with paypal for the money, without talking to me first???...

I applaud Mr. Stahl for manning up and issueing a full refund where most would keep the deposit and deduct any fees. Even if the timeframe was unaccptable to most, but I understand why he did what he did.

It's very easy to understand that it was most likely an admixture of pettiness and simple lack of forethought, in spending money that many would agree isn't actually his until the transaction is completed to the buyer's satisfaction. In your obvious fanboy mentality, you've chosen to ignore aspects that don't present him in the rose-colored light that you clearly perceive to be beaming from the pedestal upon which you've obviously placed him. The most relevant being that PayPal returned the money to him well before he deigned to finally issue the refund. Although he's quick to blame the PayPal claim for his monetary woes, I suspect that the money was spent before she ever initiated it.

Ms. Sierra seemed only to lack focus and comprehension that any transaction in any part of the country, weather will be a first thought for the sake of the animals. It seems all the trouble stemmed from Sierras inability to comprehend that a dead snake is not worth the "gotta have it now" mentality of many behind the keyboard.

It's so easy to play the "for the sake of the animals" card. However, if she's the uncaring person that you'd both like to portray her as being, why would he be so dead set on holding her to the transaction? If it's all for the "sake of the animals," would it not have been best to simply issue a refund and find a buyer who he felt sincerely cared about their welfare? That'd seem to be the most sensible course of action, unless, of course, he really cared about nothing more than the money.

She clearly lacked comprehension of exactly what kind of person she was dealing with. I suspect that many eyes have now been opened, and the view isn't nearly as flattering as the picture you're trying to paint.

I would certainly buy from Evan Stahl based on my ability to pay attention. It seems the quality of his animals rarely come into question. And his buisness ethics seem to be inline with a proper buisness. But because of customers like Siera, I stopped sellling my offspring to the general public four years ago. Too many people lack the social skills as well as comprehension of a little thing called TOS.

I seriously question your definition of propriety, especially in regards to business ethics. I notice you haven't commented on the glaring lack of social skills coming from the guy who's chose to threaten at least one person in this thread. I suppose it's just another example of your comically selective myopia. It's also laughable that you'd bring TOS into this, considering that his own are so extremely vague that they'd allow for an open-ended timetable for shipping, based wholly on whatever arbitrary criteria he'd choose to stipulate, after the sale. From a TOS standpoint, there's nothing for him to righteously hide behind. They're actually more supportive of the OP's position, since he did fail to "produce or supply the animal as agreed upon."

 

[evansnakes]

You're awfully quick to believe the guy who - despite crying like a baby about the injustice of anyone being able to make unsubstantiated claims - absolutely refuses to back that statement up. The context clues tell a different story. In the posted communications, he never once references the PayPal dispute until 4/3. Nearly a month after we first see the OP asking for a refund. No one finds it odd that his refusal wouldn't come with some reference to the dispute that she supposedly already initiated?

His reply:

If - according to his claims - she'd already filed the PayPal dispute, why would he still be asking her to wait "a few days"? Doesn't make any sense to me. Especially considering the tone of the following email, which is his first time referencing the PayPal claim:




It's very easy to understand that it was most likely an admixture of pettiness and simple lack of forethought, in spending money that many would agree isn't actually his until the transaction is completed to the buyer's satisfaction. In your obvious fanboy mentality, you've chosen to ignore aspects that don't present him in the rose-colored light that you clearly perceive to be beaming from the pedestal upon which you've obviously placed him. The most relevant being that PayPal returned the money to him well before he deigned to finally issue the refund. Although he's quick to blame the PayPal claim for his monetary woes, I suspect that the money was spent before she ever initiated it.

It's so easy to play the "for the sake of the animals" card. However, if she's the uncaring person that you'd both like to portray her as being, why would he be so dead set on holding her to the transaction? If it's all for the "sake of the animals," would it not have been best to simply issue a refund and find a buyer who he felt sincerely cared about their welfare? That'd seem to be the most sensible course of action, unless, of course, he really cared about nothing more than the money.

She clearly lacked comprehension of exactly what kind of person she was dealing with. I suspect that many eyes have now been opened, and the view isn't nearly as flattering as the picture you're trying to paint.


I seriously question your definition of propriety, especially in regards to business ethics. I notice you haven't commented on the glaring lack of social skills coming from the guy who's chose to threaten at least one person in this thread. I suppose it's just another example of your comically selective myopia. It's also laughable that you'd bring TOS into this, considering that his own are so extremely vague that they'd allow for an open-ended timetable for shipping, based wholly on whatever arbitrary criteria he'd choose to stipulate, after the sale. From a TOS standpoint, there's nothing for him to righteously hide behind. They're actually more supportive of the OP's position, since he did fail to "produce or supply the animal as agreed upon."

Wow, so somebody you dont even know, that I dont even know, comes on here and posts their opinion, which is all that any of you are doing since none of you have dealt in facts for weeks and have no idea what really happened so you are just throwing your feces on the wall and watching it run down. Lovely. So when somebody outside your click posts on here, you just attack and insult them, even though they have said nothing to harm you, you just attack, like animals. What makesyou so much better than everyone else you self rightious sob??? Who died and made you Jesus Christ? Or even better, God? why is your opinion more valid than anyone elses'? You are so pissed off at me even though you dont know me and have never dealt with me? You have mental problems. you need therapy. If you think you are getting to me, I could care a less. I have had nothing but phone calls and emails the past few days commenting about how bad people think you hyenas behave and echoing the sentiments of what I and others said here about what you are posting in this thread.

On top of all that you are since I breed snakes my tos says clearly, if I fail to produce the snake, as in if I DO NOT MAKE IT. I do not believe outside of a court room that anyone says produce meaning to make something appear. The snakes existed already when she purchased them. I did not fail to produce them, but even by your dated definition that you are only using to drag out this tired garbage, I did nothing to violate my tos. The weather is just slightly out of my hands and for not recognizing that fact you are really cool, right?

1)She sent me a deposit, I held the animals for her.
2)she paid the balance and demanded animals ship immmediately
3)I refused to ship due to weather, she asked for a refund
4)I told her no and it would only be a couple weeks before the weather was good enough to ship the snakes
5) she agreed to wait and then filed a dispute with paypal without discussing it or informing me that she was doing it
6) I am out of town all the time for reptile shows, I was out of town and did not access my email so I had no idea that she had filed the claim until a bill that I have auto paid every month came back unpaid. I used a computer at the hotel to check my paypal account at that point and it was -$800 which paypal took from my account due to her claims.
7)I had monies going in and out of paypal like I do every day, I do thousands of transactions a year on paypal so I worked from a balance of -800.00
8) at this point the buyer and I had exchanged over 29 emails, she accused of me of lying to her about the weather to avoid shipping, I sent her weather.com info as others have posted in this thread, it was too cold to ship live animals. simple.
9)eventually I got sick of her and told her that I would resell the animals and refund her money, which at this point paypal still had for two weeks.
10) since then I have refunded every cent she paid including the non refundable deposit she aggreed to and the fees that I lost because paypal did not release the money back to me until after the period for refunds was over.

simple. it is all done now. even though she has posted mirror images of this thread all over the internet and has not posted on them that she received a refund and in fact I still do not believe she would have posted it here without being pushed just like when she lied and said she had gotten refunded that day when I posted proof from paypal that it was four days earlier. So that is that.

You guys keep posting that you dont understand why I dont post more info, simple, you are nobody to me, I dont owe you anything, you are not a customer and should not even be part of the conversation, so I will continue to do nothing for you. good bye.

 

[Fangthane]

You have mental problems. you need therapy.

Oh, sweet irony. I'm not "pissed" at you. You simply don't rate high enough to elicit any kind of emotional response from me. You could live forever or die tomorrow, and it'd make no difference in my little world. Methinks someone needs to get over himself. Given your nature and how you've chosen to conduct yourself, I suppose I can see why you'd have such a problem with someone who's not interested in genuflecting to the greatness that you clearly perceive within yourself. Sorry, but that's just not how I roll. I simply call it like I see it.

It is simple. When she asked for a refund I did not have her money she had filed a dispute with paypal and they had her money, not me. AND I do not offer refunds for buyers remorse. Her deposit was also non refundable but I have not even brought up that point. I need to now get paid for the snake that had not been paid for because you have to cover 100% of the funds to refund at the same time, you can not do partial refunds.

OOPSIE. It seems that the story has changed. First, the PP claim came before the request for a refund. Now, it's a different story.

3)I refused to ship due to weather, she asked for a refund
4)I told her no and it would only be a couple weeks before the weather was good enough to ship the snakes
5) she agreed to wait and then filed a dispute with paypal without discussing it or informing me that she was doing it

You guys keep posting that you dont understand why I dont post more info, simple, you are nobody to me, I dont owe you anything, you are not a customer and should not even be part of the conversation, so I will continue to do nothing for you. good bye.

I guess it's a shame that none of your previous customers bothered to acknowledge the same glaring lack of proof that you, yourself, recently chose to rail about. If one had, you'd have had to scramble to think up another justification for not producing it.

 

[Wilomn]

EvAn, do you remember a bit of advice I gave you a few days ago? That little bit about making one more post about you refunding her money? The one you didn't make?

That advice is even more applicable now.

hint hint

 

[Quest]

Yea I gave him a deposit which did indeed clearly state deposits were nonrefundable. Well, I ended up splitting with my wife after 10 years. Had nowhere to go. I explained my situation to him and he had no compassion. I needed the money to get a hotel room becuz I didnt have a roof over my head. No refunds though. It is what it is....lol Im actually right around the corner from him. No hard feelings. Not on my end. Im back with my family. But sure wish I coudve got those beautiful Super Enchis from him ! I am looking for a couple animals now. Id appreciate it it if youd give me a call. See wht you hve available. Hes not a bad guy at all fellas.
Derek B.

 

[evansnakes]

You went to paypal without talking to me and filed for a refund on your deposit. Paypal denied your request. I was not even involved in it. If you wanted another animal I would still let you use that as a deposit.

 

[Guy Castro]

Yea I gave him a deposit which did indeed clearly state deposits were nonrefundable. Well, I ended up splitting with my wife after 10 years. Had nowhere to go. I explained my situation to him and he had no compassion. I needed the money to get a hotel room becuz I didnt have a roof over my head.
Derek B.

Not to self,put some money aside, in case of an emergency.

 

[Guy Castro]

Note^^^

 

[Casey Hulse]

Derek, You might want to reconsider your priorities. You do not have $100 emergency funds, no credit card etc.. for a hotel room, yet you are buying reptiles. I think your "family" should take priority.
This is a "ding" on Evan Stahls reputation (and you know it), and he did not do anything wrong.

 

[reticlvr]

Evan has always not only been a stand up guy, but has fantastic animals. I have recommended several people to buy from him, and none have been disappointed.

 

[Jason Kuta]

Evan Stahl

I've done business with Evan on a number of occasions and he has always been extremely professional! The communication was great and his animals are top notch. I'd recommend Evan without hesitation. In my humble opinion EVAN is one of the good guys!

Just my 2-cents...

Best Regards,