Bad Guy Beware Evan Stahl from Stahl Reptiles!

[Teatime]

I'm confused as to where people are getting the idea Evan is refunding her nothing.

Paypal had given him all of the money back when they denied the buyer's claim, and then he spent part of it for some reason. Even though he hadn't given her the animals or the money yet, he created this situation where he pretty much refuses to give her anything until he sells the animals. $800 is the only money he had to pay his bills? Really?

 

[ShadowAceD]

Paypal had given him all of the money back when they denied the buyer's claim, and then he spent part of it for some reason. Even though he hadn't given her the animals or the money yet, he created this situation where he pretty much refuses to give her anything until he sells the animals. $800 is the only money he had to pay his bills? Really?

And yet he says he is refunding her when payments clear.

So, either way, he's still refunding her.

 

[Teatime]

Yeah, no, making her wait until he finishes his other business is not being a good guy. It's being kind of petty.

 

[meowmeowkazoo]

And yet he says he is refunding her when payments clear.

So, either way, he's still refunding her.

It's good that he is refunding her, but he shouldn't have spent her money until she had received the animals. What if it takes weeks or months for the animals to sell? She'll just be out of luck until then?

 

[ShadowAceD]

It's good that he is refunding her, but he shouldn't have spent her money until she had received the animals. What if it takes weeks or months for the animals to sell? She'll just be out of luck until then?

He said it will be within the next few business days as he is waiting for payments to clear at this moment.

As for me referring to him as a good guy, I don't believe I said that once, Meredith.

Both parties are at fault. Evan spending the money prior to the animals being shipped out does not change a bad buyer being a bad buyer, which the OP is.

What I was pointing out is people in an uproar repeating over and over again Evan is not refunding her when the only thing he stated was he did not feel (his opinion) that she deserved a refund. He has every right to keep her deposit and refund her 700.00, but he is not doing that either. He is giving her 800.00.

 

[Fangthane]

I really find it amazing that not one person has anything to say about this awesome buyer trying to steal from me!!! How awesome that she emailed me and pressured me to ship after she had filed for a refund through paypal without telling me???

That's a pretty big accusation. The buyer says that she asked for a refund before initiating her PayPal dispute. You claim to have all of the emails and such, so let's see you prove your version of events. Let's see a screenshot of the PayPal notification or invoice where it shows exactly when she initiated the dispute. We can then compare that to the posted emails, which clearly show that she asked for a refund as early as March 5th.

Am I really the only person that's calling on the idea that someone could be in the middle of a PP dispute and not know it? Unless something has drastically changed, PP issues prompt email notification of every little thing that's going on with one's account. You can try to say that maybe they went into the SPAM folder. If that's the case, does it make sense to ANYONE here that someone who heavily uses PP wouldn't have noticed this in their years of using that service, and compensated for it? Both Yahoo and GMail clients allow you to mark something as "Not Spam," and it's always worked for me. I'd imagine that other email clients offer a similar option. I'm no "poster child for online sales," but I'm not buying that he didn't know about a dispute. As it seems that he uses it not only for online buying/selling, but also for paying bills, it's pretty unlikely that he hasn't figured out how to receive his notifications.

Also, if you read the emails, she told me to resell the animals and refund her money. It was not my idea or game plan.

To which you replied that you wouldn't issue the refund, and that she just had to wait. At some point after that, you changed your mind and decided to re-sell them. As with every other aspect of this transaction, YOU were in complete control and had all of the power. You made the choice to re-sell them. You don't seem to have had any interest in the buyer's input before she brought this to the BOI, so I think it's funny that you're now trying to use it as some sort of justification.

 

[evansnakes]

Dan, you are totally out of line. I not once ever said that I was unaware of anything, in fact I very clearly stated that I knew of the paypal disputes. What is evident is that she for some reason thought that I would not be told by paypal when she filed a dispute as her emails tell me with her asking for a refund and asking for me to ship the animals both while never mentioning the paypal dispute that she filed and the fact that they told her they had removed the $ from my account and she still wanted the animals shipped to her.

As for your other point, I am not trying to justify anything, as I have now publicly stated about a dozen times that I am refunding her money any day now as soon as the payment for the snake posts to paypal, I was just posting the truth, that she brought up reselling the snakes and then refunding her, it was not my idea and I did not bring it up. How about you stop looking for some huge criminal conspiracies where there are none.

 

[Fangthane]

Dan, you are totally out of line. I not once ever said that I was unaware of anything, in fact I very clearly stated that I knew of the paypal disputes. What is evident is that she for some reason thought that I would not be told by paypal when she filed a dispute as her emails tell me with her asking for a refund and asking for me to ship the animals both while never mentioning the paypal dispute that she filed and the fact that they told her they had removed the $ from my account and she still wanted the animals shipped to her.

Ahh I see. So you just chose to keep mentioning that she supposedly initiated the dispute before first asking for the refund as a bit of a red herring. Your posts have strongly implied a lack of knowledge about the fact that there was a PP dispute.

For anyone who's actually used PP to any degree, I'm sure they've noticed that PP gives notifications about everything. So, it's pretty laughable to try to say that she'd assumed that you wouldn't know about it, and was trying to get two refunds or free snakes. If your version of events is the truth, it still doesn't show that she was trying to steal from you. It could have very easily been meant to show you that she wasn't playing around.

Either way, I can't help noticing that you chose not to provide proof for your accusation. She says she didn't initiate the dispute until after you refused her refund. You say that it was before. It doesn't make a whole lot of sense for someone to go through the hassle of a dispute, before asking the seller to refund of their own volition. It'd be a very simple matter to clear it up and prove that she lied. Can't imagine why you'd want to avoid doing so. Let me guess, we should just instantly take the word of such a renowned seller, right?

As for your other point, I am not trying to justify anything, as I have now publicly stated about a dozen times that I am refunding her money any day now as soon as the payment for the snake posts to paypal, I was just posting the truth, that she brought up reselling the snakes and then refunding her, it was not my idea and I did not bring it up. How about you stop looking for some huge criminal conspiracies where there are none.

You're trying to twist the situation into appearing that there was some nefarious plot to get you to send her snakes, as well as getting a PP refund, and I'm the conspiracy theorist??

You said "no" to her idea. If you're not trying to use her idea to justify anything, what's the point in bringing it up? My point still stands. I highly doubt that she was advocating you making her wait for her refund until after you'd re-sold the snakes.

 

[Magic]

Mid march I requested I be refunded for my purchase for 800 and was told I would not receive a refund I would get my animals !

Sierra wanted a refund because Evan wouldn't ship when she felt the snakes could be shipped. She then initiated a dispute because she either wanted the snakes stat or a full refund despite the weather being unreasonable.

Evan was clearly planning on shipping as soon as he felt it safe to do so. Sierra wasn't happy with that. The posted emails show this.

 

[Fangthane]

Sierra wanted a refund because Evan wouldn't ship when she felt the snakes could be shipped. She then initiated a dispute because she either wanted the snakes stat or a full refund despite the weather being unreasonable.

That's what she says: That the request came before the PayPal dispute. Evan says differently. He's using his version of the timeline to try to make it appear that she had larcenous intentions. Although I think filing a dispute first would be a bonehead move on her part, I don't feel that that would automatically support his theory. Either way, since he did choose to level the accusation, I think he should back it up.

 

[Focal]

Evan, did it really take you 12 days to respond to the dispute? It seems like if the money being tied up was such an issue, you would have responded to it sooner.

 

[leaveittoweaver]

I wish someone would post screencaps of the dispute and try to establish the time line better.

I personally think the seller's only mistake was spending money they didn't really "have". But in my opinion the buyer seems to be a pain in the butt as well. Until more details are revealed, I would not deal with either of them.

 

[CircleCityConstrictors]

I know the situation is frustrating for you, but losing your cool and throwing vulgarity around is about the worse thing you can do.

This has ever been his weakness. Combined with what seems to be just a plain old pigheaded meanness, sometimes not always, and you get even.

I saw this on display pretty clearly at the Midwest Reptile Show on April 7th. A kid that I heard was 13 years old was caught stealing items from vendors at the show and had taken an item from Mr. Stahl's table and had gotten clear to the back of the room before Mr. Stahl caught up with him.

Mr. Stahl grabbed the kid by the collar of his shirt and began to drag him all the way to the front of the venue while throwing F Bombs the entire way at the top of his lungs and ranting about the kid stealing from him. It was so loud that the place (with hundreds of people) went completely silent. I saw parents with small children immediately grab them and exit because of the profanity and Mr. Stahl being physical with the kid. Hopefully these patrons will return in the future.

I understand being upset about being ripped off, but the reaction was way over the top considering it was a kid and because there were kids in the venue. His post reflects what I saw on display that day.

 

[NIGRO51]

I understand being upset about being ripped off, but the reaction was way over the top considering it was a kid and because there were kids in the venue. His post reflects what I saw on display that day.

Considering it was a kid?!?? Stealing is stealing no matter what age and at 13 you should definitely know better. Plus I'm sure the 13 year old didn't drive himself. Not that I defend anyoother actions but I totally understand dragging a theif to justice while venting.

 

[ShadowAceD]

Considering it was a kid?!?? Stealing is stealing no matter what age and at 13 you should definitely know better. Plus I'm sure the 13 year old didn't drive himself. Not that I defend anyoother actions but I totally understand dragging a theif to justice while venting.

^---- That.

If a kid stole from me at an expo you better believe I'd be dragging his butt somewhere while making a scene so I can embarrass the crap out of them and the entire expo is aware that he is a thief.

I have intercepted kids trying to leave retails stores I've worked at after shop lifting and I've drug them kicking and screaming to the back to contact management and the police while people are telling me to "Take it easy, he is just a kid".

That's a dangerous way of thinking.

 

[RichsBallPythons]

I saw this on display pretty clearly at the Midwest Reptile Show on April 7th. A kid that I heard was 13 years old was caught stealing items from vendors at the show and had taken an item from Mr. Stahl's table and had gotten clear to the back of the room before Mr. Stahl caught up with him.

Mr. Stahl grabbed the kid by the collar of his shirt and began to drag him all the way to the front of the venue while throwing F Bombs the entire way at the top of his lungs and ranting about the kid stealing from him. It was so loud that the place (with hundreds of people) went completely silent. I saw parents with small children immediately grab them and exit because of the profanity and Mr. Stahl being physical with the kid. Hopefully these patrons will return in the future.

I understand being upset about being ripped off, but the reaction was way over the top considering it was a kid and because there were kids in the venue. His post reflects what I saw on display that day.

I would of done the same thing, And only way id let him go without getting him in trouble with the law on charges, was make his ass pay for what he stole. Otherwise kid be dealing with probation!

 

[tsthompson]

Has this been resolved yet?

 

[CircleCityConstrictors]

I would of done the same thing, And only way id let him go without getting him in trouble with the law on charges, was make his ass pay for what he stole. Otherwise kid be dealing with probation!

I think people are missing the point. I'm not debating the merits of what happened, or if the kid deserved it or not, just that Mr. Stahl's lack of control in person seemed to match his posts here.

I am also not exaggerating that paying customers were leaving with kids in tow because of the incident. There were other vendors there that had items stolen by this kid that didn't throw the F Bombs at the top of their lungs while dragging a kid past even younger kids. In fact other vendors had to ask repeatedly for Mr. Stahl to let go of the kids collar, because of the fact that he was surrounded by numerous people and he wasn't going anywhere (although he actually did try to run at one point and was attacked buy a small mob and choked and actually punched in the face by one of them). I overheard many non-vendors complaining about how over-the-top the reaction was. Of course, some of the vendors I overheard (as I am hearing here) thought there was nothing wrong. I guess it is just a perspective thing.

And yes I have been the victim of theft before and the total was much higher than the items here, so I know how it feels. Also, the cops were called and the kid was hand cuffed and taken away. So he got exactly what he deserved in that respect.

 

[evansnakes]

Get facts before you convict!

The kid at the Indy show stealing was 16 years old. I never touched his body in any way because I know the law and could obviously tell he was a minor. I picked him up by the collar of his jacket. I never got "physical" in any way with him other than that. I made a scene purposely to silence the crowd because he was with three other kids, that ran out as soon as I caught him. Sure enough, we recovered from his person property that he stole from 8 vendors at the show! When the police took him into custody he not only was revealed to have had multiple arrests for theft and shoplifting but he also voluntarliy confessed to the police to try to avoid going to jail, that he comes to the show every time and steals from dealers every time. He has stolen, by his own admission, several hundred dollars worth of product from dozens of dealers at the show.

I understand the criticism, but when you vend at the shows and get animals that you put your time, love and money into just to have people steal them it is very personal and very upsetting and I dont give a rats arse how young or old they are!!! It is not my job to have to teach YOUR children right from wrong!!! I was pissed, you are darn right I was pissed and if the show promoter and the stupid parents of these stupid kids are not willing to keep them from stealing from me, you had bet your arse THAT I WILL. You better believe that because of that scene I made hundreds of people who vend at the shows will not be stolen from.

 

[evansnakes]

In fact other vendors had to ask repeatedly for Mr. Stahl to let go of the kids collar, because of the fact that he was surrounded by numerous people and he wasn't going anywhere (although he actually did try to run at one point and was attacked buy a small mob and choked and actually punched in the face by one of them). I overheard many non-vendors complaining about how over-the-top the reaction was. Of course, some of the vendors I overheard (as I am hearing here) thought there was nothing wrong. I guess it is just a perspective thing.

Big time BS! When I brought the kid up front not one person said one negative thing to me, in fact over a dozen vendors and the police all thanked me repeatedly. It was a group of vendors that grabbed the kid and started beating him, I just stood by the door waiting for the police. I did nothing to him. THE ONLY person that had anything negative to say to me at all was Brian Hahn, the show promoter. And while I understand that he was not happy with the scene I made, I WAS NOT HAPPY THAT HE ALLOWED PEOPLE TO STEAL FROM ME AT THE LAST THREE SHOWS IN A ROW THERE! And in fact when I caught a thief at a show there several months ago he made me release him and wanted it kept quiet. He was an adult. I will not allow people to steal from me. Brian is a good friend of mine, a great guy and I have been doing his show for 19 years. BUT, If he will not prevent people from stealing my animals, you better believe that I WILL. And if you want to know what happened next time ask. And when people steal you blind at the next show you do, do not come to me.