Beware Kelly Sharp

[Wilomn]

Around the 20th of July of this year I saw an add on ks for 100% het albino boas. After a few emails I sent kelly sharp a money order for 300.00 for a 100% het albino female boa.

The snake arrived in good condition, a little smaller than I was expecting for a year old snake, but not so small that I was mad about it. However she did NOT come with any paperwork to prove she was indeed a het.

kelly said she had just moved from Salt Lake City to Portland Oregon and couldn't find it but she would "guarentee" that the snake was in fact a het for albino. I explained that I did believe that she did believe it was a het but, I did not want to go through the expense and time to raise an animal that I was not postive about. She said she would look through her boxes which had not been unpacked yet.

Then she got called out of town.
Then she couldn't find it.

Then, almost three weeks later I get an invoice that simply has a somewhat scribbled name that I think is Mark Wallace, it says it is for a het albino boa. That's it. No address, no phone number, no nothing to verify.

I had asked her for verification, pictures of the adults, number of the breeder, even the name of the show she got it at so I could try to track him down through a vendors list.

Nothing. And then more nothing. Last night she said that she is sorry that I am not happy with the invoice she sent me, that it was all she had, and that there was nothing she could do for me.

I AM NOT PLEASED. The snake is fine and healthy. I won't know until next year or possibly the year after whether or not it is a het for a fact.

I offered her a couple of options- to refund me my money and take the snake back or to refund me 200.00 and if the snake proved out I would send her back 200.00 and a free het for her trouble.

She did have several other 100% hets for sale when I made my deal with her. If she hasn't sold them, and you are thinking of buying them, get your proof of genetics BEFORE you send her money.

Wes Pollock

 

[gmherps]

Thanks for the heads up!! Greg Holland

 

[[email protected]]

I've dealt with Kelly a couple years ago and have corresponded with her off & on ever since...she's definitely a "good guy" in my book!

To be honest, I'd take her word for it if she say's your snake is definite het albino... that's how much I trust her

 

[PAUL BOLLINGER]

Yeah but,

She may have been dooped as well, that's the reason Wes wanted some legit paperwork. I really hope she proves out but I would think that if Kelly was buying 100% hets she would require some sort of piece of mind as to the real genetics, ie paperwork, pictures of the parents and/or a guarantee from the Originator.
Good luck Wes.

 

[Wilomn]

Mike, I got a good vibe from Kelly too, however, I am now in the position of having to raise, at some expense, this boa, then breed her to my albino male, and I figure he's good for three females at best, then hope she is indeed a het. If not I will be out anywhere from several hundred to several thousand dollars. Perhaps you and Kelly will be willing to split it with eachother if this girl does not prove out.

As much as I like this snake, this was a BUSINESS investment for me. And let's be honest, hets are worth less than a good true redtail. That will be even more true next season if she goes and like I said she was somewhat small for her age.

I'm glad you're taking up for Kelly, and I truly hope this is just paranoia on my part. But.........

Wes Pollock

 

[Suncoast Herpetological]

At the very least she should be willing to supply contact info for the breeder who produced the animal. Bottom line is that if she can't produce proper documentation, she has no business selling any hets she did not produce herself.

 

[Urban Jungles]

I never thought I'd say this but I agree with Mike H.

I've dealt with Kelly a few times and don't think she's the type to purposely mislead someone at all...if the snake is not a 100% het I'd bank on the fact that Kelly got duped and not that she would misrepresent an animal on purpose, not her style.

Have you been in contact with Kelly now that she's settled in from her move to ask her for details? Perhaps she can contact the original vendor.

I understand your frustration Wes and you are entitled to what you paid for. I hope the snake proves out for you and your investment is worth while.

 

[Wilomn]

Hey Danny,

Like I said in my original post, I do think she thinks it's a het. However, she wouldn't or couldn't provide me with the show she got it at and the invoice is less than acceptable.

I did not post this as a bad guy post because I am inclined to think that if the snake is NOT a het, Kelly didn't know. But, I have trusted in the past and gotten burned, so now I want some proof. If she can't provide it, I think one of my options should be given. I think they are more than fair given the time that's gone by and how long it took to get what I did, which, once again, is unacceptable.

I posted an inquiry about Mark Wallace, which I think is the guy's name on the invoice, and not one person had anything to say about him. I called Jeremy Stone in Salt Lake City and he didn't know of anyone working with albinos by that name either. So I want a little more proof.

Wes Pollock

Wes Pollock

 

[Urban Jungles]

Wes,
Your absolutely right...if the animal is what it is, then it should be relatively easy to prove. I just wanted to point out that my past experiences dictate that Kelly is a top notch person.

Good luck man, I hope you either get written proof or lots of little pink & white beauties!

 

[Hues1]

I would have to think that regardless if the snake came from a "big" breeder or not, anyone purchasing a Het. for anything would want in writing that the particular animal is what the breeder claims it to be, its almost absurd not to ask for documentation.

A het. animal is only as good as the guarantee and documented proof a breeder accompanies it with.

Who's to say when Wes breeds her and produces NO albinos, that he didnt actually buy a normal. Where would he be then with no documents or guarantees of genetics ???

I just cant imagine purchasing a het. and not getting documentation with it.

I hate to play devils advocate....but how many times have we heard of stories where someone purchased a het. and it did not produce, then when the seller was confronted....they always wanted to drop the ball in the lap of the person whom they purchased it from ???

Not good Wes, I would send it back and get a refund or at least get a guarantee of some sort from Kelly stating that if it didnt produce, then she would buy it back plus the cost of keeping.

 

[Stardust]

I agree with Alex, if you buy an animal with documentation, that is what you should get, an animal WITH documentation.
It is not like Wes is asking for a lot, only what he paid for.
It is better to nip this in the bud now rather than taking a chance.
If indeed she is innocent, she should have no problem either A) giving a refund or B)providing Wes with all the info that she has, including where she got the snake from so Wes can do the leg work (not that it is his job to do it).

 

[Wilomn]

As of Sunday afternoon, my last contact with Kelly, she refuses to do anything about this situation. I made the offer of sending the snake back for a full refund, and I offered to pay shipping, of her sending me 200.00, which is all a normal is worth or perhaps even a bit more than a normal is worth, and if the snake proved out I would send her back her 200.00 and a FREE 100% het from the breeding for her time and trouble. She has opted to leave me with a scribbled on peice of paper, a pre-printed form invoice, with no phone number, address, email, website, or any other means of contacting the supposed breeder and I am not even sure his last name is Wallace. I think it is but, as I said before, it is scribbled so much I am not 100% ( heh heh heh) positive on this one either. I have also asked her at least 3 or 4 times for the name and date of the show she got the snake at and she has not provided that as yet either, which also makes me somewhat suspicious. Should be a no-brainer to remember the wheres and whens of this purchase.

I was not informed that this was the only evidence she had for the status of this snake when I paid for her.

I really would like to send this snake back to her for a full refund as I am very uncomfortable with how this has gone. There is NOTHING wrong with this snake, she came to me in the blue, shed and has eaten a couple of times with no problems at all. I just am not a satisfied customer here and I've worked patiently with Kelly for several weeks now on this.

Wes Pollock

 

[Wilomn]

Hi Wes,
Thanks...
i don't have pics of the adults breeding, and i just moved 800 miles
here to
oregon last weekend, so i am hunting for the paperwork on her. i did
get her
from a reputable breeder of albino boas, and i am contacting the
breeder
this weekend just in case i don't find the paperwork right away, so he
can
verify it for you. if nothing else, i do offer my personal guarantee
that
she is a het...but i will have paperwork for you by the time i ship.



The above is Kelly's response to my asking about the proof of this snake being a het for albino. Since she had the number a few weeks ago, which is more than a year after she originally bought the animal, she should be able to provide it now. Which is really all I need. Then I can drop a dime, so to speak, and verify or not the true status of this snake. Or perhaps she had an email address, either way, she had some way to contact him not too long ago and should either do so and give me the proof or give me the contact info and let me do it for her.

Wes Pollock

 

[Clay Davenport]

I never have been fully clear on the requirement of documentation when buying hets.
What if she did buy a het from a big breeder with a certificate proving such? Who's to say she sold you that animal and not another with the certificate.
Or she bought the snake with paperwork and she was scammed. She sends you the paperwork she got and it still doesn't prove out. The breeder then just claims he sold her a het and she switched them. Either party can make the other look like they did it.
My point is paperwork alone requires practically as much trust as just buying it without any. If either the breeder or her was actually trying to sell fake hets, then the issue of paperwork isn't enough to stop them.

The only paperwork I would have any faith in to begin with would be a certificate with clear pictures of the snake printed on it and signed by the breeder with his contact information.
This is why I don't buy hets from anyone but established breeders who produced them themselves. Purchasing a het from anyone else carries inherent risk that isn't lessened much at all by any paperwork that comes with it.
The way I see it, getting paperwork is just a way of easing your mind by making you feel everything is alright. The paper won't make albino babies, and whether you have it or not you can still easily be taken.

I'm not saying Wes is wrong for asking for documentation, nor am I saying Kelly is trying to pull anything. I'm just questioning the actual benefit of paperwork.
It seems there is no standard as to what is acceptable as documentation. Some breeders may just give a handwritten receipt stating it's het. Other's may actually use a picture.
If I were to be producing high end hets I'd most likely invest in a microchip applicator, but at the very least I'd print a document with a picture on it, not attached to it.

 

[Dragondad]

Questions

In your original post you never specified if the original transaction was based on the snake having paper work.

Around the 20th of July of this year I saw an add on ks for 100% het albino boas. After a few emails I sent kelly sharp a money order for 300.00 for a 100% het albino female boa.

The snake arrived in good condition, a little smaller than I was expecting for a year old snake, but not so small that I was mad about it. However she did NOT come with any paperwork to prove she was indeed a het.

If you did not specify the paperwork at the time the transaction was being negotiated the to make the paperwork part of the terms after delivery is your problem not hers. And I am of the opinion that what constitutes correct paperwork needed to be part of the negotiation. This is one of those things that what you have in mind and what she has in mind may not match unless discussed.

Now you may have done these things and if so then you should be due a full refund if you didnt then you got what you paid for.

Secondly even though you say that you havent labeled this a bad guy post giving it the title of "beware" is casting a neg light on her that may not be warranted

 

[Hues1]

I never have been fully clear on the requirement of documentation when buying hets.

example 1 - I purchase a "het" for whatever with no paperwork....2 years down the road I produce NO "morphs" from this het, I call the person/breeder I purchased it from, they tell me "sorry but I dont remember that" or "well I know it was het. for sure" or "sorry but there's nothing I can do for you because I know I sold you a het".....without a guarantee or some sort of documentation...I would be outta luck.

example 2 - I purchase a "het" from a seller that got it from so and so who got it from so and so......same scenario-no papers or guarantees in writing, it doesnt prove out......oh well out of luck again.

example 3 - I purchase a "het" with documentation/guarantee in writing.....my "het" doesnt prove out.....but because I have the guarantee in writing from the seller or breeder......you bet I'm gonna hold someone's butt responsible even if I'm outta luck again!

Most respectable and honorable dealers/brokers/breeders will own up to it no matter what because their reputations are worth that much more. The odds of being compensated are a whole lot better with written proof then just a verbal promise.

And if that dealer/broker/seller/breeder doesnt own up to it even after guaranteeing me the genetics of said animal in writing......then you better believe that it would end up here on the BOI or anywhere else I can let other people be aware.

Just because someone says its "het" for something really doesnt mean much, but if they're willing to tell you in writing...then I would be much more apt to believe them. In the same breath, wether in writing or verbally said......you can still get ripped off ! I would just feel much better about the purchase with a written guarantee......which is what I believe Wes is after, Wes wishes to feel better about his purchase from Kelly, and I believe Kelly should accomodate that wish.

 

[Clay Davenport]

Feeling better is the only compensation though. If the boa proved not to be het, all the paper work would do is prove he was ripped off, it wouldn't do anything to get compensation unless either Kelly or the breeder wanted to offer it.
Anytime you buy a het from anyone but the breeder, the opportunity is there for either of them to pass the blame on to the other, and for both to blame you. The situation worsens if you're buying a het third hand if you know what I mean.
My point is unless you personally buy the het from the breeder that produced it, and have a written guarantee signed by him, you are open to getting ripped off with no recourse.
If the written guarantee from the breeder didn't have a picture of the animal on it, they could still claim it wasn't the animal they sold you. I agree that most breeders would still make compensation to preserve their reputation, but that also opens them up to scams from the other end.

Your examples work great when dealing with honest individuals. But if everyone was honest no paperwork would be needed anyway.
I understand that paperwork gives some peace of mind, but some people view it as a document guaranteeing them compensation if the animal doesn't prove out.
The moral is buy from a trusted source to begin with, then paperwork is a bonus. If you buy from an unknown source, paperwork doesn't guarantee anything absolutely.

 

[Rob BryertonRKK]

I agree with Clay about the paperwork. I have been selling Poss Hets and I give the buyer a pic of the Ball Python with the clutch's ID # in the pic. I also keep a copy of the pic for myself. This way if someone wants it verified I can do it. Pretty easily too.
It's hard to say what to do in this situation. If I was the seller I would take the snake back if I told you it came with paperwork and I couldn't produce it. But this is just my opinion.
Take Care, Rob

 

[Stardust]

Does it really matter why Wes wants the paper work? I don't think so. The point here is, he bought a snake with documentation and the documentation was not provided. In Kellys email she said she could contact the breeder yet would not give Wes the contact info. This would cast a big doubt in my mind.
He is a customer who is not satisfied and did not get all he payed for, a refund should be in order.
I understand that some of you may know Kelly and have dealt with her, but as we have seen in many many threads, it is what the seller does if a transaction goes sour that helps to form the true character of the person. I hope you are all right and she is a good person whether it be a good deal or a bad deal.

 

[Wilomn]

Here you go michael.
From: wes pollock <[email protected]>
>To: Kelly Sharp <[email protected]>
>Subject: Re: Message about: 100% HET ALBINO PACKAGE DEAL-PICS-
>Date: Thu, 24 Jul 2003 15:42:30 -0700 (PDT)
>
>You know, I've been thinking about women who are friendly with their
>machines...... ah well, perhaps another time.
>
>Anyway, the check is in the mail, I do love saying that. In reality
it's a
>postal money order but, it's on the way anyhow. Do you have paper work
on
>this female? Pictures of the adults breeding or something? I don't
mean to
>be insulting or anything but, I do need to be sure on this and since
we
>have not done business or pleasure in the past I just want to be very
up
>front about everything. You know, nothing left unsaid or assumed. I
really
>don't do "assumed" very well

That should be clear to you just what I asked for. You have seen the reply already.

Beware means to use wariness or caution. I did not state that she ripped me off because I don't, at this point, think she did. I was expecting a reciept from a "big breeder" and didn't get one.

So, I stand by my advise to use caution, or beware, if you buy any of the "hets" Kelly is selling.

I hope that clears it up for you.

Wes Pollock