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Bad Guy Beware of Dragonfortress Edwin Sanders

he did not offer a full refund he offerd a refund minus the shiping cost. i mean if u order dragons recive all but one dead and u spent 220 dollars u would be upset to i was also told to use this site by another dragon breeder. and he said he would have heat packs 2 fridays ago.
 
I was going to stay out of this for several reasons, but this whole thing is really bugging me...

Savanna, why do you feel like you were being SCAMMED? Do you have any idea what a scam really is? If not, I would suggest reading some more of the threads here about what a real scammer does and how they react to things.

From your own words and pictures, it appears that the dragons were more than likely damaged from FedEx slamming the box around and destroying it. Yes, Edwin may have made a mistake in the packing of the heat packs which may have resulted in their actual deaths, but it was not like he did this on PURPOSE. A scammer would have sent dead animals KNOWINGLY and then try to lie and cover it up. Edwin has admitted to possibly doing something wrong in shipping and is willing to make up for it.

He offered to refund you the money for the dragons but NOT the shipping because YOU stepped out of line with FedEx and initiated a claim that you had NO RIGHT to do, which therefore got it denied. Why, at that point, SHOULD he feel obligated to refund you the shipping money when you stepped over the line after only 12 hours of trying to contact him? But, guess what, he says he will refund that as well. Personally, I would have told you to bite it after pulling that stunt. Edwin manned up and is STILL sending you the shipping refund. That is not the mark of a scammer.

You try to get more dragons from him than you originally ordered AND wanted a full refund (not one or the other, but BOTH), which is WAY beyond what any person should expect. If there are any breeders out there that have this sort of guarantee (refund AND new animals), I would LOVE to know who it is, because I have yet to ever see that guarantee. But yet, you expected it. And you threatened a lawyer if you didn't get BOTH the refund and new animals. Who was trying to scam who?

Edwin offered to send you more animals, even the 7-10 you asked of him, but said you would have to wait because he felt the dragons were too small to ship, and the weather here in PA is not exactly great for shipping. That was not good enough, you wanted what you wanted NOW, to hell with what Edwin felt was best for the hatchlings he had. Another "kid in a candy store told no" rant from you. So he felt it was best to just send you the money back. No, you wanted the dragons NOW. Nothing was good enough until he came and posted here. A scammer would have told you (to quote one of my favorite lines) to go "piss up a rope".

You also have made mention of the fact that you already "had the dragons sold," which makes it obvious that you were not keeping these animals as pets, but making money from them, which is fine. Sure, you probably have lost some money from those prospective customers, but you will get your money back as Edwin has promised. What he has now is a "bad guy" thread with his name on it for all to see when they go searching the BOI, and maybe getting the wrong impression because they do not read the entire thread. You still get dragons from someone else to resell, he loses out on the cost of 5 of his animals and shipping just to make you happy after ranting and raving like a 3 year old who was told they can't have the candy on the grocery store shelf.

You also claim you had no contact with him for quite a long time in the beginning of this thread, yet you do not deny there are many, many emails that were exchanged. So which was it? Sounds to me like you were trying to make it sound like Edwin just ignored you, but the fact is that you were not happy with the resolution he offered so you tried to make him look bad.

Personally, when I saw this thread, I was shocked. I know Edwin, have seen his animals in person, and know he is a good guy trying to make a name for himself in this difficult business. He cares a lot, almost too much, and he made a mistake which he is willing to pay for. Knowing him, seeing those pictures of his babies probably broke his heart, and he probably feels like he is at fault, and is beating himself up over his mistake with the heat packs. He is one of the nicest guys you could want to meet, and handles himself in a very professional manner.

You, on the other hand, have been immature, demanding things WAY beyond what most people could or would expect in the real world, and yet say HE is the bad guy. Luckily for him, it appears that most people are willing to give him the benefit of the doubt on his "newbie" mistake, as long as he follows through with his promise of a refund (which I have no doubt he will do).

Edwin, I say along with the refund you will be sending her, put a lollipop in the envelope so she has her candy too.
 
what about your "lawyer/fedex" legal team? why lie? thats my point. you stated a couple things that sound like 1/2 truths @ the least. & why did posting the emails/correspondence become his problem? you were the 1 who got "scammed" but never was willing to post all the info...nice, slam this guy " you did bad!" but when asked to post stuff its " there are too many messages to post". if edwin didnt post anything what would we have but your unproven claims of his "bad business".
also if you started this thread not even 24 hrs. ago & edwin was a bad guy then, @ 10:38 p.m. you turn around & state " i dont think hes a bad guy"
make up your mind! either hes a bad guy/ scammer(your words), or he's not...
& to my understanding shipping is usually non refundable. regardless if your animals were alive on arrival,you were shipped a package that you received. if you order something in the mail & decide you want to return it you would be refunded everything MINUS shipping so you are very lucky that edwin just wants this over & is willing to just give you the $.
 
Okay, while I do think Edwin made a simple mistake and Savanna freaked out and overreacted, I can sorta understand it as receiving a box full of dead/dying animals would be pretty upsetting.

-- replacing the large beardies with 2 small beardies does not sound unreasonable, even Edwin seemed okay with it at first, considering the larger ones were 2x the price
-- I don't think Savanna tried to get the beardies replaced AND a refund, I think she wanted one or the other
-- BUT I do think Savanna was too worked up to realize her demands were illogical. You can't file a shipping claim AND demand the person refund their shipping at the same time. Edwin was perfectly reasonable here
-- If the breeder can't provide the replacement animals right away, either work out the refund or wait until they can. There's no point in demanding animals they don't have or won't risk losing another set of to the exact same problem.
-- The drunken Significant Other calling was way out of line

Edwin looks like a saint (or will, once the refund gets placed). Savanna's been overreacting, but she DID get a boxful of dead beardies. Not Edwin's fault/intention, (er, still unclear on whether the heatpacks were originally shipped inside the deli cups) but it would be upsetting.
Savanna, next time try to be a little more patient when a problem arises in a transaction rather than assuming the seller is a bad guy right off the bat.
 
thank you ophidile. you are right. i wanted one or the other. i don't think he is a bad guy and i sure don't think he did it on purpose. he had heat packs wrapped in paper towles inside the deli cups. the dragons dug under the napkins and over heated. i might have over reacted but every email from him was something different. first he had them, then he didnt have heat packs, then he was out, then he had them but it was to cold. then he was going to ship on thursday or friday and was fine with it then on wednesday he changed his mind.

any ways

thanks for everyones advice. not a bad guy just learning. he has emailed me telling me he will put the check in the mail.

thanks to all.
 
I think if anyone's the victim of a potential scam, it's Edwin. Edwin, can you tell from those blurry pictures whether or not those were the actual dragons you sent?

She claims the box arrived damaged, ripping animals apart. How do we know Edwin's shipping technique caused their deaths? These animals were seriously injured, yet she won't post pictures of the packaging here, which she has admitted she does have pictures of.

Has the question been asked, did she actually SIGN for that box? I'd never accept something that would've had to have been that torn up without taking some pictures then and there and asking the driver to document it's condition on the spot with a signature, truck number, etc.

She also claims one dragon was buried, but there are no pictures of it dead. Yet she went to great lengths to get pictures of the other dead dragons supposedly from Edwin. How do we know that dragon isn't alive and well?

After all the twists and turns and backtracking, I'm suspicious.

I'd buy from Edwin if he had something I was interested in. He seems like a stand-up guy, even when cornered by an unreasonable shrew.
 
Savannah, For future reference. With a package damaged as much as you say this one was you should take pictures of every step of the opening. If possible open it in front of the driver.

I don't agree that asking for two babies to replace an adult is extortion. Especially if the price was double for the adults. However, breeders can't send you what they don't have so you should have accepted the refund. Your demands became unreasonable and Edwin was trying to work it out with you. Try being more professional next time and you may find things will work better. Lastly drop the lawyer crap. No one believes it. If I was a seller I may just say "now that you've got your lawyer involved I wait to see what he wants me to do". Then you're screwed.
 
If I was a seller I may just say "now that you've got your lawyer involved I wait to see what he wants me to do". Then you're screwed.

Thank you for that idea Mr. Murphy. If I ever have the misfortune to have a customer like Ms. White I'll use it.
 
thats ok b/c you all don't know the whole story. i really don't care i have my money back. he has changed his story every time i talked to him but thats not important i have my money and we never have to talk again. you can ask a real breeder that i bought from that i am not difficult to do buisness with. i ordered these a month ago and they still wasnt' here that was ridicouls. any ways. i have other people to do buisness with so thanks everyone, you all scared edwin into getting this straighened out. he wasn't budging before yesterday.
 
The emails posted say he started out trying to be reasonable!
Your lies included the "I talked to my lawyer, and he said blah blah" then "I haven't talked to my lawyer yet", and that's just one.
No one scared him into straightening it out, the emails show that he wanted to end this but you wanted different deals.
You started a bad guy thread about someone who had already tried to refund your money after you wouldn't conceed that he can't ship when it's too cold or the lizards are too young, and then after dragging this into a long thread finally accept the refund, and you don't care about his rep.. because you got your money back.
I'd never do business with you at all. I feel bad for whoever else has to deal with you.
theresa baker
 
thanks for your opinion but i don't need it. i know what went on between us and it is straight now. i told everyone it was straighted out a MONTH later. he offered a refund minus the shipping and i wasn't going to settle with that. thanks for your opinion. i am just trying to get things straight and i have talked to edwin about it.
 
He offered you a refund minus shipping because YOU had already contacted FedEx for a direct refund on the shipping! Did you think you'd get a double refund? Because that's exactly what you were asking for.
 
i think that she was just to pig headed to realize that he was trying to be fair cause alot of people dont refund shipping since that money isnt going to them its paying for the animal to be shipped
 
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