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Bad Guy BHB reptiles "het" didn't prove out, won't fix it

TripleMoonsExotic said:
Brian did tell him what line of Hypo. It's in one of the emails posted at the very beginning of this thread. I was simply stating all the incompatible lines to cover all his bases for the BOI-naysayers (None of..."Well...Maybe Brian was mistaken what line it is..."). You still didn't answer the question though. What if he bred it to every last line of Hypo available and still produced nothing. We're talking three seasons wasted and several thousand lost.



You're comparing a couple hundred dollar clutch result to a couple thousand dollar clutch result. Very poor comparison. It was also stated that he's making it right to the person he sold him too, so any money made by its sale at this point would be moot.




Ultimately, whatever this ends with...Keep in mind that it could very well negatively effect het sales. If Brian of BHB doesn't have to stand behind his animals, then any Tom, Dick and Harry can sell false hets at will. :shrug01:
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From what I read, Brian was not specific, and generalized the line compatibilities, and I believe it was after the sale.

If that male is bred to a visual female from every different line, and no hypos are produced, then something needs to be done on Brian's part.

At this point in time it is way to premature to even say the male is not a het. There are way to many variables here to say the male is not a het.

If a lot of people were making negative claims against Brian and his animals, then that would give the OP a little more ground, but I just haven't seen it.

The OP used bits and pieces of emails to paint a picture to make it look like he is a victom. The OP has been dishonest in doing so. Brian owes the OP nothing.

If this comes out below, we will all have some nice music to listen to.



If not, here is the link.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7IU1bzZheWk
 
i am in no way a big breeder or anything, i have bred some retics, some corns, a couple ball clutches, dogs, etc. i bought a het albino normal retic several years ago and bred it to my friends white phase female, and produced all normals (i should have gotten 50% albinos). sometimes mother genetics just doesnt work. 2 years later i bred him to my friends het albino tiger and she produced almost half the clutch albino (when 25% should have been the amount).

my point is, genetics is a probability not an exact gurantee. sometimes you get what you should, sometimes you dont. that is the risk/gamble one runs when dealing with hets and/or poss hets.

maybe wait til next year and try breeding the snake in questions witha visible ghost and see what comes about of it. maybe this clutch the genetics gods said, not this time.
 
I had a late night convo with Cliff.. He is going to try one more time to get in touch with Brian as well.. Cliff was promised "something" of value by Brian himself a while back via phone.. Please note; 4 breedings to known het ghosts; two virgins, two provens; 22 babies... 6,7,5,4... Cliff had three bad eggs in his two and they were not ghosts... Regardless of anybody's math; there should have been some ghosts or honey's in there at some point... Brian can do the final breeding to a visual I think....
 
multiple clutches, i agree, some ghosts should have been hatched out. however, i guess im just a huge believer in buyer beware, with hets or poss hets.
 
multiple clutches, i agree, some ghosts should have been hatched out. however, i guess im just a huge believer in buyer beware, with hets or poss hets.
11-16-2010 12:21 PM
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Once again, not if they were incompatible hypo lines, that would equal zero hypos.
 
brd7666 said:
At this point in time it is way to premature to even say the male is not a het. There are way to many variables here to say the male is not a het.
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I don't disagree in the slightest. If it were me, I would have known from the purchase date what line he was from and bred him to a visual if my four hets (2 virgin, 2 proven) did not prove it out before making such a claim.

My only point was, since people keep bringing up the monetary aspect of this, how can you say he should be provided only a true Spider het Hypo or $1,500 of an alternative option when he's lost three seasons trying to get the goal morph, a Honeybee...and the market tanked on them since then. We're talking thousands of lost revenue.
 
Thanks Ryan.. I appreciate that comment; and I'm sure Cliff and Dave will from the backdrop.. Hets and possible hets make this thing go round n round... There ain't nothing wrong with them; til something like this happens.. My thoughts only.. Could you imagine being thrown on a backburner to top it off?? I'd come swingin outta the gate too... Heck; I'm swingin, and I'm in the stands... I put my entire rep and green dots on the line and now am laced in red... Dave threw his rep on the line; he's gone for now... He didn't wanna do this; I guarantee this as well...
 
TripleMoonsExotic said:
I don't disagree in the slightest. If it were me, I would have known from the purchase date what line he was from and bred him to a visual if my four hets (2 virgin, 2 proven) did not prove it out before making such a claim.

My only point was, since people keep bringing up the monetary aspect of this, how can you say he should be provided only a true Spider het Hypo or $1,500 of an alternative option when he's lost three seasons trying to get the goal morph, a Honeybee...and the market tanked on them since then. We're talking thousands of lost revenue.
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I never said the OP should be provided anything. To be honest, the OP sold the animal in question before proving that it's not a het. So in reality, the OP should never get anything.

If, or when it is absolutely certain with no doubt about it, that it's not a het, then the owner of the animal, and Brian will have to come to terms on a solution.

If you think about it, the OP has no claim anyway.

It was stated that Brian has gotten some of his breeding stock straight from Africa, as a lot of the big breeders do. It is possible that the animal in question is a whole new line of hypo.

The OP is not entitled to anything from Brian. Brian owes him nothing.
 
maybe im just cynical or something, but i dont believe anything to be 100% or poss het for anything unless i see (either through me, or though a reliable source for me) visual proof of it. for example, i got in a platty het albino retic. the breeding is from a platty het albino to a normal albino. so, by genetics law, he should be true het albino. but until i breed him to prove him out, he is just a platty to me. that is how i go about all hets or poss hets that i have or get in, they are not hets until they are proven. its the fun of the wait and gamble when dealing in hets for me. if i want the sure thing, i would just get the true homozygous gene. if the platty het albino produces no albinos for me, i wouldnt think of wanting reimbursement, its part of the risk when dealing with het stuff and not homozygous stuff.

now, im not saying my thinking is wrong or right, nor am i saying the opposite of my thinking is wrong or right, just sayin thats i view stuff. if i wanted know i was gonna produce albino platty tigers for example, i have an albino tiger, i would have gotten an albino platty. but i wanted to stay cheaper so i got a platty supposed 100% het albino, and ill see next season (hopefully)
 
There are some great peeps on this site... I have to say; I don't know who you are right now; membership renewal is in the works so I can personally thank those... I'm here for a couple reasons; we are all equal in this, and nobody is better than the next; everybody's opinion's are valid; this site is real and valid; this thread is real and valid... I love every bit of it... Thank you to all; to any I offended by stickin up for a bud or two; I apologize again... A friend in need; is a friend indeed!!
 
whether Brian reimburses you or not, I believe you have learned a valuable lesson. Unfortunately I wouldn't trust my own mother with a het much less someone I don't even know granted his reputation. This is why I videotape the unpackaging of any new reptile I get. if the seller has any question to it being the original animal I have video, I also take pictures or videotape any of my breedings from the time of pairing to a lock up. Its all about protecting yourself.

Brian made the mistake of ever saying he would fix this, without some kind of proof. But since he has said he would, although no actual proof of email just quotes he now should do something to fix it, without some kind of proof on your end id say if you got a 2010 spider het ghost from him you got lucky he trusted in you.

I feel that if you buy a het, grow the baby up, breed it and it doesn't prove out in atleast 2 clutches then you should be reimbursed, but if you buy a het and are the 2nd owner (not including breeder) then in this case (Chris owes you because there is no proof he didn't switch that baby out for a normal spider. In this case you had a 25% chance in making a honeybee it was also your choice to take a chance on getting that spider from a buddy.

In the long run since he said (although you haven't given us more then a few quotes) that he would fix it hes gotta do something to make it right, remember he's running a business and has to protect it or someone could do this to anyone with the info you have provided i.e no pictures or actual emails
 
and just to clarify real quick, my thoughts arent because i dont trust breeders, its that genetics can be so inconsistent and fickle at times, that unless im dealing with homozygous forms or i know hets are proven, they arent true hets (yet at least, until they are proven)
 
brd7666 said:
This is really a good point. The answer is, no compensation needs to be given. He does not need to follow through if he said he would give something. He has every right to change his mind. Again, you post without knowing all the facts. If Brian was not given all of the information from the beginning, and then found out new information, he has every right to change his mind.

The OP has been selective from the beginning on the information he has provided, which is dishonest in itself.

Brian really has no reason to respond to this thread. So I would not expect him to. He has no reason to defend himself. Brian has done nothing wrong.
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Without any of that information put to light, through either Brian, or David; it's all hear-say on what 'new' information could have arisen. You're right; Brian doesn't need to follow through and it's his right not to. If he doesn't, without showing proof that David had done something wrong, or contorted some type of information... where will that leave Brian, and how will he appear? ;)

Without any more information from either of them, it's just simply your belief and opinion that Brian owes nothing. That simple.
 
I didn't read the full emails and I'm not commenting on whether it's het or not. If the owner of the company was explained the situation and said he would fix it and didn't, then that's messed up. This isn't kindergarden and you can't take things back like they never existed. Me, personally, would not have made a promise like that without digging deeper into the details, but then again, I don't throw around loose promises. Having dealt with eBay buyers and sellers for years, I can say this is the perfect example of "Let's wait and see if they forget". I can tell you, if somebody promises you something and then blows you off more then two times... you will probably never see it.
 
Kaa22 said:
Without any of that information put to light, through either Brian, or David; it's all hear-say on what 'new' information could have arisen. You're right; Brian doesn't need to follow through and it's his right not to. If he doesn't, without showing proof that David had done something wrong, or contorted some type of information... where will that leave Brian, and how will he appear? ;)

Without any more information from either of them, it's just simply your belief and opinion that Brian owes nothing. That simple.
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Exactly. Couldnt have said it better myself...and Ive tried...lol :ack2:
 
Kaa22 said:
Without any of that information put to light, through either Brian, or David; it's all hear-say on what 'new' information could have arisen. You're right; Brian doesn't need to follow through and it's his right not to. If he doesn't, without showing proof that David had done something wrong, or contorted some type of information... where will that leave Brian, and how will he appear? ;)

Without any more information from either of them, it's just simply your belief and opinion that Brian owes nothing. That simple.
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The same goes for you. It's simply your belief that Brian owes the OP something. This thread has not, and will not hurt Brian in any way. Brian will never owe the OP anything.


:deadhorse
 
brd7666 said:
The same goes for you. It's simply your belief that Brian owes the OP something. This thread has not, and will not hurt Brian in any way. Brian will never owe the OP anything.


:deadhorse
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Didn't Brian SAY he would "make it right" or did I miss something?
 
snakemami said:
How many people besides me asked Brian his side of the story? I heard it... and now that I have I totally agree with him. He's not going to add anything to this post, and for good reason. The OP isn't an innocent here.... by any means.. maybe you should post all of the emails you sent... and not just the ones that show your "point of view".
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No disrespect but that is third party information. No one here in the BOI really cares about what Brian told u. If he is a man and has anything to say, then he will post here. If thinks his business wont be hurt by not commenting, then good for him he dont need to comment. But dont call the OP guilty. If this thread is gonna that way then Brian needs to post all the emails.
 
herpman081 said:
And I dont think most people would disagree with that. But I think it would behoove him to divulge what his issue with everything instead of us speculating as to what his reasoning is. And if he did change his mind, than something should have been said to Dave weeks ago instead of (seemingly) ignoring his attempts to contact him
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Dead on the freaking nail.
 
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