Bad Guy Bigpimpen22 led me on a wild goose chase.

[bigpimpen22]

here is proof

 

[Fangthane]

Your text message that's dated 4/29 states that they're both currently in the hospital, however your "proof" shows them being at the clinic on 4/25 and 4/26. Either way, I don't think the family situation really changes anything. In a text dated 4/22 you offered to send $100 to his PayPal account, but didn't follow though. In a text dated 4/25 you said you'd have the money Saturday (4/26), but you didn't follow though with that either.

I think the seller did his best to work with you and you consistantly chose not to follow through, for whatever reason. While it would be "big" of him to refund your deposit, I don't see anything that would really obligate him to do so. That's just my take on the whole thing.

 

[mikepanzarella]

Well those are after visit so the dates he was at the hospital could differ but generally we ask for the notes when we leave the doctors
But havnt a little brother that has to go on the mask from time to time I can say it is a pain and is a process over a few days to get the breathing corrected
Hope they are all doing well

 

[Skanakis]

On the buying side of this. I was going to buy a pair of Rainbow brazilians from a person. I sent 100 in total of a $300 deal. I stepped into a financial poop storm (personal issue) but I told him i had to pull out of the deal. Me and him discussed a 20% no refund at the beginning. But honestly I felt bad asking anything back. He held the animals for me which i appreciated and he was extremely helpful and patient. And my own bad financial decisions created my situation. Micheal...should keep the money unless there was a BIG number involved. You can always bring in principle but that can be argued on both sides. Bigpimpen aint spending G's(Love that song). As buyers sometimes we need to make better financial decisions. I hate wasting time of sellers. I agree with willow and lucille. IT SUCKS missing out on a sale while holding an animal. I have had some payment plans. I pay the day i arrange with person selling so he feels more comfortable. All in all...its all the bout the The love for the hobby that includes the cash or love for the cash that includes the hobby. And then we got scammers. GOD BLESS this BOI and the good member and MODS here. I always like to see that 20% non refundable but usually i see that with the Bigboys. Micheal i would suggest a LEGIBLE and DESCRIPTIVE (putting that in caps cause ive seen some illegible and lawyer contracted TOS forms) if you plan on selling or trading. Im a buyer. Not a seller yet. But being on Fauna for a bit....I can see what works and what dont work. PLETHORA of information. In my opinion....Mike should keep the money. IF....and IF he wants he should send back a certain % agreed by 2 parties. And Bigpimpen.....either take the loss...cause cash dont care for family issues or next time on a payment plan...prepare to follow thru on the dates agreed upon or FORM a agreement before cash is exchanged to a % non refundable and a time table. But expect to follow thru as a seller and a buyer. This being my opinion. Good luck guys. Oh one more thing....Mike....since you kept homeboys money. I dont think this should have been on the BOI. You just made 100 off of a bad judgement off someone and STILL sold the animal and made your money.

 

[Skanakis]

oh and bigpimpen....that is WAY to much info to paste on a forum. Im at work in a hospital right now. Between the last names and MRN numbers and DOB's. You never know. (just sayin). Next time open a paint program and black out any info like that. Yeah we got hippa....but we also got Nigeria...lol. Hope the kids are doing better.

 

[deborahbroadus]

I apologize for assuming that you, too, were lying. I have no defense.

However, it doesn't change anything. What you SHOULD have done, as others have is understood your own financial situation. It's really not anyone elses' responsibility to handle your financial situation, and it is unfair to expect the seller to refund money after having his time wasted and losing buyers (but it ended well for him).

The buyer should be compensated (that's what holding fees/deposits are for) for time lost and feeding the animal beyond the agreed time (during the holding time, the animal is essentially yours). However, imo, no buyer has the right to expect any seller to hold an animal indefinitely TOS or no TOS.



Again, I apologize for assuming, and I am sorry for your family's health issues. Good luck.

 

[deborahbroadus]

I apologize for assuming that you, too, were lying. I have no defense.

However, it doesn't change anything. What you SHOULD have done, as others have is understood your own financial situation. It's really not anyone elses' responsibility to handle your financial situation, and it is unfair to expect the seller to refund money after having his time wasted and losing buyers (but it ended well for him).

The SELLER should be compensated (that's what holding fees/deposits are for) for time lost and feeding the animal beyond the agreed time (during the holding time, the animal is essentially yours). However, imo, no buyer has the right to expect any seller to hold an animal indefinitely TOS or no TOS.



Again, I apologize for assuming, and I am sorry for your family's health issues. Good luck.

Correction in bold.

 

[Skanakis]

I agree deb. But the tos saves any arguements from buyer and seller. Easier state of mind. Can you imagine a 6000 dollar deal. Paying 3000, half way thru the deal. All of a sudden. Boom. Lawyer bill. Dui or whatever. Hospital bill. Etc. What comes into play? Principle. Pity. Or no pity. This instance here the seller has the right. Bigpimpen IMO should have been more up front.

 

[FireStorm]

I just thought I'd throw my $.02 in. As a buyer, I always assume that any deposit I make is nonrefundable. After all, as others have said, from a seller's perspective there wouldn't be much point to a refundable deposit.

As a seller, I always use the term "nonrefundable deposit" when discussing deposits with potential customers just to make sure we are on the same page. That way, if the buyer backs out, they can't argue that they didn't know. And, if I have to take time off work to meet someone, I always require a nonrefundable deposit (even if they are paying cash and picking up the next day) so if they are a no show I'm not out as much.

I have to say, in this case I can't really fault the seller for keeping the deposit, considering he took off work twice and was out money in that respect. It seems perfectly fair that he should be compensated for that. I realize that the buyer may be in a tough financial situation, but it seems that the seller may be in a tough financial situation as well and I don't think that the buyer's personal issues automatically trump the seller's.

 

[suzuki4life]

After reading the posts I would highly recommend the seller refund the payment received. I highly doubt a judge will consider "$100 down" as an implied nonrefundable deposit. The seller CHOSE which days he was available. That means the seller CHOSE to miss work one way or another. He can not expect a buyer to be responsible for paying him for days he clearly planned to miss on his own.

if the seller does NOT refund the payment, I highly recommend the buyer to talk to an attorney and then the police. I do not see a "undeliverable" clause in the agreement the seller should really think about for future sales. Yes the buyer stood you up. You have every right to sell it to another buyer. You do not have the right to keep his money to compensate you for work you planned to miss. You could have scheduled the pick up for a time that did not interfere with your job.


As for anyone commenting on a "TOS" posting on a website: unless your site has a way of the buyer showing acknowledgement of accepting your terms, the open posting of them is useless.

 

[jimoo]

If you're having tough times, don't be spending money on luxuries like snakes. The hurry is that you are feeding/housing/and caring for an animal that really is not yours any longer (not yours to do with what you please as it is being held on deposit). You're boarding an animal for someone else.

 

[Lucille]

How much was the total selling cost of the snake?

 

[Lucille]

I highly recommend the buyer to talk to an attorney .

I'm thinking an attorney (if you could get advice for a $100 issue) would say that there are claims each side can make. As you know, the UCC governs this transaction for the sale of goods. Both buyers and sellers have remedies under Article 2, section 2. Buyers have specified rights to a certain statutory amount of deposit (if this was a deposit and not an option) but sellers have various contractual rights and to recover for expenses incurred.
To imply to the buyer that he is 100% in the clear here is, I believe, not the case.

 

[mikepanzarella]

i just read this again i just wanna make sure im getting it correct
the $100 hold was placed with no TOS or warning is was non refundable?

 

[David Reid]

I would refund the guys $100. If you have a $300 snake, and you take a $100 deposit from person A, and they never come through, and you sell the snake to person B for $300, you make an extra $100. Now, if you waited a year and the value of the snake declined to $200, then, I could see you keeping the deposit because you LOST money. I have been breeding Balls long enough to know, you do not always get paid for your time, frustration, and patience, but you are usally rewarded in the end.

 

[suzuki4life]

UCC normally only pertains to a commercial sale, where this appears to be a civil case without written policies of action in place. Texas law will differ from where I am. In this troubled economy, I am sure plenty of lawyers are offering free consultations. I personally would not allow a person to take my money AND slander(libel technically) my name publicly without action.

I do not see a contract in place. Payment given has not been defined as a deposit by the buyer to his acknowledgement, nor has he stated he agreed to it being forfeited under any circumstances. I would say at best there is a feasible breach of understanding that would allow the seller to choose other options with his product but not the buyer's money. "$100 down" could be construed merely as a first of many possible payments (or maybe just one more). Without a written contract in place this will be at best viewed as "open ended".

I'd contact the police with a copy of this post in hand to ensure the seller can not deny receipt of payment. I would ask for them to retrieve my payment or press charges. It would then be up to them to take action or encourage the buyer to address this civilly through the small claims court.

in other words, it could be very messy and embarrassing to both parties over $100. However, depending on state law, a plantiff may be able to ask for reimbursement for legal expenses, incurred costs to collect/recover payment etc. In others words, it could get much more expensive than $100 to the seller if the court favors the buyer. I still think the seller should refund the cash, sell the snake to someone else and walk away. I'm betting the buyer would let it drop without a second thought.

 

[joshjtd]

I would refund the guys $100. If you have a $300 snake, and you take a $100 deposit from person A, and they never come through, and you sell the snake to person B for $300, you make an extra $100. Now, if you waited a year and the value of the snake declined to $200, then, I could see you keeping the deposit because you LOST money. I have been breeding Balls long enough to know, you do not always get paid for your time, frustration, and patience, but you are usally rewarded in the end.

I would disagree with this a bit. At the time someone puts down a deposit on an animal wether it is in a ToS or not it is a commitment from both sides. The seller has commited to sell that animal to that person and to provide care for that animal until it is paid in full. The buyer has agreed to purchase that animal and follow through with the sale in a timely manner.

I would agree that if I was in the sellers shoes, I would have set a paid in full date when the deposit was made. It does however sound like the seller made a more than reasonable attempt to get the animal to the buyer but each time the buyer had reasons he couldnt.

Life happens and I get that but if the seller had to leave work early or take days off only to be ditched at the last minute by the buyer, then no refund should be given. Time is money.

 

[joshjtd]

Another option may include giving the buyer a $100 credit on another animal since the seller did say he was expecting future clutches.

 

[Lucille]

UCC normally only pertains to a commercial sale .

You are completely in error. While some parts of the UCC do describe the parties 'between merchants' the UCC pertains to all sales and has been adopted by all states except Louisiana.

 

[Lucille]

All sales pertaining to the sales of goods, and this sale qualifies.