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Bill Leverton SCAMMER beware

Lee,

Tell me how you packed the Boa. Was it is a sack or a deli cup? If so, how was it secured? Was the Box lined with styrofoam? Please include as meny details as possible.
 
I dont usually make posts on the board of inquiry, I just read. I sat here looking at the pics for a long time trying to find similarities and differences, and I am leaning towards them being the same 2 snakes. Just a lot of the little marks in between the saddles seem to match up. And look at this pic, the first band has the same spot, and in between the 6th and 7th band, the area of markings look VERY similar.

Hope this may help a little....
 

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pch101 said:
Lee,

Tell me how you packed the Boa. Was it is a sack or a deli cup? If so, how was it secured? Was the Box lined with styrofoam? Please include as meny details as possible.
Click to expand...
Ok Lee seeing as you have pictures of the boa in question please post pictures I sent you of the box as I no longer have them (dumb on my part I reckon)(last E-mail to Lee) Lee I picked this 1 and 3 other boas from a guy who was being shipped off to Iraq back in May when I was down in Texas, you say you compared the pictures and they are identical.Not that I doubt you which I dont. What I do find odd is I bought the Dh in April and if memory serves The one that got lost was a 2' and the one.. I have up is just shy of 18" send me the pictures tou compared it to please Like i said I just find this really odd.Thank you Billy

>From: "Serpents Plus" <[email protected]>
>To: [email protected]
>Subject: RE: DH Ghost
>Date: Sun, 10 Jul 2005 22:21:03 -0400
>
>The snake you have up for auction is identical to the one I sold
>you!!! I compared the photos, and the patterns are identical. Where
>did you get the snake if it is not the one I sold you? I think I am
>going to have to go to the BOI about this. Please don't make this
>worse than it already is. I am not playing games. Lee

>Lee Frey
>Serpents Plus
>[email protected]
>www.geocities.com/leeherps

>>From: "Bill Leverton" <[email protected]>
>>To: [email protected]
>>Subject: RE: DH Ghost
>>Date: Sun, 10 Jul 2005 19:14:23 -0400
>>
>>Lee,Im not sure I understand what your talking(typing)about How
>>were you scammed??? Please explain....your saying that the Dh I
>>have up is yours????? theres no way....please explain....Billy
>>
>>>From: "Serpents Plus" <[email protected]>
>>>To: [email protected]
>>>Subject: DH Ghost
>>>Date: Sun, 10 Jul 2005 18:32:00 -0400
>>>Bill, I am emailing you about the DH ghost you have listed on
>>>Reptibid.com. I feel as if I got scammed!!! I suggest you email me
>>>immediately with an explanation and resend the $200 I refunded you
>>>for this snake!!! If I don't hear from you soon, I am going to
>>>make sure everyone knows what kind of person you really are!!! Lee
>>>Lee Frey
>>>Serpents Plus
>>>[email protected]
>>>www.geocities.com/leeherps
 
OK This is going to go on forever and we are going to be split on a 50%x50% its the same.... its different.....with all the personal crap going on in my life the last couple of months.... My name is all I have and to have it thrown up here like this I think Its useless to make this thread go on and on and on so to put an end to all of this I will pay Lee the 200 on 7/21/05 at 9am i will deposit it in my account by 11 am it will be in Paypay to keep my good name in tact. If this looks to be anything other then what is it is then take it as you will My Name is all I have and the longer this goes on the less my name will be worth Thank you and have a good sunny day
 
Bill.... You are doing the WRONG thing!!.... YOU are absolutely correct.... THOSE ARE TWO DIFFERENT SNAKES.... PERIOD.... No camera angle of any kind can change the definite "arrow" shape of that saddle.... THEY ARE TWO DIFFERENT SNAKES!!

Bill, you CAN'T let people push you around just because a couple of people can't see the difference.... you've got to stand up for yourself sometimes.... and THIS is one of those times.... I've never known you to be dishonest at all, but you can't just cave in because you "think" your name is in question.... if you do, there will be others that will think they can walk all over you by insinuating that they will take you to the BOI.... Hogwash....
Stand up for yourself....

Neil
 
Neil,

You're a day late and a dollar short on this one. Agree with it or not, how will it look if Bill goes back on his public promise here?
 
The ONLY reason he made that "public promise" is because he was under duress, and felt pressured to do it, "or else"!.... period....
That's why he can EASILY change his mind.... because HE IS RIGHT!!.... They ARE two different snakes....
What he's being pressured to do (if he DOES give the money back), is almost extortion.... It's not right, and Bill shouldn't do it....
Can I make myself any clearer for you??....

Neil
 
I have respect for everyone that has posted here and most like have the same respect for the ones that have yet to view their opinions. The only thing that keeps running through my mind is something my grand father said to me before he past "You come into this world and given a name..your parents teach you right from wrong..you will go through life with this name it is up to you what kind of name you will take to your grave" So in the reality of it all it comes down to What name do you want to carry....If anyone sees this as I'm being walked on by my gesture then so be it ,I see it as Its my name and right or wrong I will take it to my grave.
 
Bill.... Although I disagree.... I can respect your decision....
Do what you think is best for your "name".... but, don't be surprised when someone else reads this and tries it for himself.... That's all I'm saying....

Neil
 
"You come into this world and given a name..your parents teach you right from wrong..you will go through life with this name it is up to you what kind of name you will take to your grave"


Bill,

I don't know if Boas can have similar markings in more than two places. The snakes look similar, but in my opinion, the tail is totally different. I do not think it's the same snake. I think if Bill pulled a quick trick on Lee to get a free boa, he would not be posting the picture of the actual snake.

If snakes could talk, then we'll know the truth.
 
Neil Gubitz said:
The ONLY reason he made that "public promise" is because he was under duress, and felt pressured to do it, "or else"!.... period....
That's why he can EASILY change his mind.... because HE IS RIGHT!!.... They ARE two different snakes....
What he's being pressured to do (if he DOES give the money back), is almost extortion.... It's not right, and Bill shouldn't do it....
Can I make myself any clearer for you??....

Neil
Click to expand...
Neil,

Let's look at the facts. I'm not commenting here on anyone's veracity. Bill has always been a stand up guy but imagine if it was someone else for a minute.
  • The box came in with a hole in it -- how often does this happen? Do we have UPS documentation of it? If not it is he said, she said
  • Bill got a refund
  • Bill posts a picture of a very similar looking snake which to your eye is different but to others' eyes is the same. Remember that photographs are two dimensional representations of thee dimensional objects and what look like straight lines and relative distances can be easily distorted. If you doubt this, look at DAND's avatar.
  • Bill's digital camera is gone. Again, not a comment about Bill, just being objective.
There is enough of an appearance of impropriety, there or not, that unless Bill follows through, as he will, it will forever be a stain on his stellar reputation, especially in light of the fact that he has already promised to do so.

For some of us, our word to do something is compelling enough, even when we believe that we are "right". Perhaps, Neil, your word means less to you than that. Now, "Can I make myself any clearer for you??...."
 
"The ONLY reason he made that "public promise" is because he was under duress, and felt pressured to do it, "or else"!.... period...."

Wow Neil, Are you psychic? Do you always speak for Bill? I think Bill stated his reasons very clearly. Period...

"That's why he can EASILY change his mind.... because HE IS RIGHT!!.... "

I just love objectivity.

"They ARE two different snakes...."

I guess your opinions are fact. I guess we can put that mystery to rest. Your magical powers will be a big advantage to the BOI in the future. When there is any doubt, we can all just wait for Neil to post.
 
Neil Gubitz said:
Bill.... Although I disagree.... I can respect your decision.... Do what you think is best for your "name".... but, don't be surprised when someone else reads this and tries it for himself.... That's all I'm saying....Neil
Click to expand...
Neil I do respect what you are saying and what others may be thinking.so I'm going to lay this out the best I can...This will never happen again and you can Quote me on this. I have bought, traded all the snakes that I needed now I'm selling the ones that will not suit my purpose out of 138 boas I have 13, 4 of which I'm keeping 9 which will be sold and I really don't see me buying anymore unless it is in person.and they of superior quality I'm really not in this Herp Community as a business man..I'm an over zealous Hobbyist with a dream that I will find a new Morph(everyones dream) just because this thread was started does not mean I have any less Respect for Lee I have to see the other side of this coin What if it was me or WW-JD I hope this sorta clears this up. :)
 
hate to get involved

hate to get involved in this, but looking very closely at both pics, and having photographed hundreds of boas and balls--these animals have very distinct "fingerprints" so to speak. It never changes, only gets bigger with size-i would have to say and would be willing to bet after comparing many of the saddles-that these two animals are the same snake. Have nothing to gain from either party here, but have had there is a hole in the box thing pulled a few times on me and always sucked it up, but in this case, i would say these are the same two animals. One or two similarities i would give the benefit of the doubt, but virtually every dorsal pattern is identical in shape and white spotting within the dorsal which is usually very distinct. Sorry-i would have to go with them being the same-Ben Siegel
 
Bill,

May I just say that you have handled this very well and have been very polite.

I have a question for you since lee is gone. Can you remember how the snake was sent in the box? The more Details, the better.
 
Ok first off Ben thank you for your post, and I see how it does look like the same snake and I do understand the finger print thing But how does a snake go from 2' to barly 18" thats not my point though. my point is that even tho they have similar marking are you saying that the possibility that they are 2 different snakes is impossible? James it came packed really well except for the gapping hole and the smashed containter in side before this whole thing started as it stated in Lees opening line the snake was 375 and he sent the 200 back and I told him that I would split half the loss, Now if I was a scammer would I not just took it all back and hid the snake ???? I dont really know the mind of a scammer Because I dont have one :)
 
That is the same boa, I agree 100% with what Ben said in his post. There are way too many identical markings!

Bill, if that is not the same snake, why Pay Pal the $200? Wouldn't you rather prove that it is not the same snake and that you are not a "scammer" as the title of this post suggests?

If you are sure it is not the same snake, borrow a digital camera, take photos from all angles, especially similar angles as the original pics sent to you of the snake that you say escaped out of the UPS box. Surely someone you know has a digital camera?
 
impossible?

nothing in this world is impossible, but imo--those are the same snakes-i have had to do the match game many times on my own pictures and fully understand how an animal can vary from a picture from curves and body position. I do not know why you would offer to split the difference on the loss, but on the same note, i do not know why you would offer to pay the $200 back either just to clear your name--it sounds more like an admission of guilt. If someone accused me of something like this, i would be pissed off to say the least and would ask for the remainder i originally told him to keep back. Aside from looking at all of the circumstances involved in this ordeal---aside from the fact that is a 1 in a bazillion chance that you are selling the exact same snake, that also looks like the same snake that was supposedly lost in the mail---forgetting all that-----if someone from indochina showed me one of those pictures and someone from atlanta georgia showed me the other, i would still say those are the same snakes. As i said---just looking at the pictures--i would say those are the same animal period.
 
Basically what I am trying to say is, who CARES about the $200! In this case it is more important to prove beyond a shadow that those are two different snakes.

Also I will say that if you prove that is not the same snake you will get a profuse apology from me for doubting. It just looks like it is the same to me, sorry.
 
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