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Bill Leverton SCAMMER beware

Hey Bill...

You were offered the ability to send the snake to either James or I at our expense to clear this matter up. Wendy said she would mail you a digital camera. for petes sake. Now youre going to walk away from Fauna after being offered so much assitance to clear your name?

If youre not willing to do what is required to squash this situation then you shouldnt be allowed to surrender your certified good guy status....you should be stripped of it this moment. I'll leave out raking you over the coals because its already begun.

Take one of us up on our offer Bill or Clearwater Reptiles will no doubt go the way of the dodo.
 
pch101 said:
Another very generous offer for you Bill. Wendy, that is very nice of you to offer your camera to help clear this all up.
Click to expand...

Bill is a good guy in my eyes, always has been and I think if he could take the different angles of pics as requested this would have all been cleared up with out all this mess so the least I can do is offer to loan him my camera to help him out.
 
Unfortunately, these are the only photos I kept of the snake. They are the ones I used in the ad when I had him for sale. To answer James question, The snake was packed in a 12" x 12" x 8" box lined with 3/4 Styrofoam. the snake was in a 8.75 inch deli cup with the lid electrical taped shut. The deli cup was placed in the center of the box and surrounded by packing peanuts. The photos of the box were not sent to me. They were posted on webshots.com however they are no longer there. I copied and pasted the email I received from bill below:

"Hey Lee Ups just dropped off the Box, But there is a problem There was a big hole in the side of the box that someone taped over at one point. and other then the packing and the container there was nothing in the box NO SNAKE i have taken pictures of the box and all that was not in there here is where the pics are located....... http://community.webshots.com/user/clearwater_reptiles get back to me on this please Thanks Billy"

I really didn't think Bill was trying to scam me when I received this email because of the good name he has. But it is all so clear to me now.

Thank you, Lee
 
Id bet that since my post went through at 3:10 and his at 3:20 and he is a slow typer that he never got my post before his last reply.
 
Bill.... Even though I STILL say that those are two DIFFERENT snakes (just going by the arrow saddle).... Had you stuck up for yourself in the beginning, instead of folding like a cheap suit, you could have easily taken other pics (somehow) and PROVED your case and kept your "good" name intact.... What you're doing now is NOT what your Grandfather had in mind.... If you KNOW you're right, get a backbone and PROVE IT.... otherwise, you might owe Gramps an apology....

Neil
 
I have no opinions on the snake comparison as I am not a snake person and have no clue what to look for. I can see differences and likenesses but I don't really know.................

The thing that gets me is this. If I were accused of doing something like this and I know I didn't, I would be fighting tooth and nail to defend myself. Most anyone would I think. I would get a camera, pay a professional to do it, anything.

Bill so quickly offering a refund and wanting this to disappear in my opinion showed a couple signs of guilt. And my opinion had nothing to do with the pictures.


If your "name" and "reputation" are all you have. Why aren't you fighting for them??? I always looked at you as a stand up guy with a great attitude Bill.

If you are innocent fight for it!!!!! If your not come clean and get it off your chest.
 
Bill,
Let me first say that I understand the whole idea of trying to keep your good name. Since you have committed to sending Lee back the $200, do so. But (on to the meat of the issue) that only does so much, considering the allegation. I came upon this thread several hours too late, and the offer of a digital camera has already been made, but I'm offering one as well. Hell, depending on where in NY you are, I will DRIVE THERE AND TAKE THE PICTURES if that will help. My free time for such a trip is limited (2 jobs, animals, etc) but it can be made to happen, just say the word...up to 4 hrs one way, and I can be there with camera in hand. For the sake of your name, take one of us up on our offer.
 
photo comparison

I think I can help this discussion by providing the following photos. I took 2 of the known snake and 1 of the "snake in question" and labeled the saddles 1 through 26 starting at the tail (probably backwards, but I'm not an expert). Then I cut and pasted them side by side using adobe photoshop, I have too much time on my hands. haha. Found some very interesting similarities. Here you go for discussion. Check out saddles #10,12, 13, and 14 which are nearly identical with good views (midportion) and #20 (head portion part 2). There are some black specks on #13 which can be lined up very precisely.
that's all for now,
Donna DeYoung
waiting on her first boa - a hypo het albino female
 

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Neil Gubitz said:
Bill.... Even though I STILL say that those are two DIFFERENT snakes (just going by the arrow saddle).... Had you stuck up for yourself in the beginning, instead of folding like a cheap suit, you could have easily taken other pics (somehow) and PROVED your case and kept your "good" name intact.... What you're doing now is NOT what your Grandfather had in mind.... If you KNOW you're right, get a backbone and PROVE IT.... otherwise, you might owe Gramps an apology....

Neil
Click to expand...

Didn't Bill tell you in a nice way to mind your f u c king business about 4 pages back? Don't you have your hands full playing guardian angel to Sal? You do know his other business that probably netted him way more than he ever scammed in reptiles? Precise Home Remodeling? Ring a bell? Whats his 180 status with those folks?

Is it Neil or Kneel? I guess its all how Sal looks at ya.
 
Bill,

Harald has made an offer that you really cannot refuse. Doing so at this point is an admission of guilt in my opinion. Only a person who does not wish to restore his name would walk away from such an offer. You say that you have a lot going on in your life. Is financial troubles one of them? After all, you sold your digital camera? You're selling most of your snakes? You can't refund $200 for 10 days (seems a long time for someone who has bought and sold over a hundred Boas)? If that's what it is and you admit it, then in the long run people will understand. But to walk away will always leave people wondering.
 
snakehorse said:
Check out saddles #10,12, 13, and 14 which are nearly identical with good views (midportion) and #20 (head portion part 2). There are some black specks on #13 which can be lined up very precisely.
Click to expand...

Out of 26 bands only 6 are matching, would that not lead mean they are NOT the same snake?
 
Nope

Those bands I mentioned appear to match exactly. Even including adjacent markings and black dots. The others cannot be compared as easily because the photographic views are not the same or the bands are partially blocked. I thought all snake's had individual markings? Ie, no two snake bands the same?
Donna
 
Tokyo...come in Tokyo.

Hey Bill.....we getting through to you? If you're going to walk away don't you at least want to say goodbye to those who put their trust in you and voted you as a good guy here on fauna? Heres the names.....

brucestephenson, CheriS, dragonflyreptiles, DThomas, ecmorrell, gatorbabies, gregh, HerpLuver, Jim O, liquidleaf, lucille, Manhattan Herps, Mark and Aimee, mindcrash, ms_terese, snakewrangler89, Zoo Supply
 
snakehorse said:
I think I can help this discussion by providing the following photos. I took 2 of the known snake and 1 of the "snake in question" and labeled the saddles 1 through 26 starting at the tail (probably backwards, but I'm not an expert). Then I cut and pasted them side by side using adobe photoshop, I have too much time on my hands. haha. Found some very interesting similarities. Here you go for discussion. Check out saddles #10,12, 13, and 14 which are nearly identical with good views (midportion) and #20 (head portion part 2). There are some black specks on #13 which can be lined up very precisely.
that's all for now,
Donna DeYoung
waiting on her first boa - a hypo het albino female
Click to expand...
After looking at the photo's you put together, it does appear to be the same snake.

Bill, take up Harald's offer and let him come photograph the snake. Walking away will only make things worse.
 
"Id bet that since my post went through at 3:10 and his at 3:20 and he is a slow typer that he never got my post before his last reply."

Wendy,

It looks as though Bill has left the building, You may want to e-mail him your offer. I too hate for this to end with unanswered questions. However, I do not think he will take us up on our offers as it is my opinion that they serve to incriminate him even more. At least right now he has the loyal support of a few people (yourself included) that have a hard time seeing past his perfect reputation. If he is guilty, and he were to do as we suggest, he would remove all doubt and seal his doom leaving him with no one to believe in him. However, if he is innocent, than the pics would clear him and he would gain the trust of the nay sayers like myself. So if he does not take us up on our offers, there's your reason.

So in short, if he is guilty, then he is doing the smartest thing he could do. He just slinks off, and pays Lee back and looks like a victim to a select few, and he gains their sympathy. See what I am saying?

Bill did mention on page 5 something about going through some personal problems over the last couple of months. Were these of a financial nature? Who knows. If they were could that constitute motive? Possibly, but that is still a bit of a stretch. Sometimes you just do not know why someone does something like this. I am not trying to be hard on anyone, I just refuse to let reputations sway me away from what the actual evidence is telling me.
 
Bill is posting a reply now.
Clearwater_Reptiles
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Replying to Thread Bill Leverton SCAMMER beware @ 05:01 PM
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Click to expand...
 
Tail band #6 counting from the tail up is what does it for me, it is no where near the same. Bills is an aorrow shape, almost perfect arrow and Lee's looks like a slegde hammer, nothing like an arrow.

At any rate, Bill is no longer posting here so I will keep my opinions on this matter at what are posted and leave it at that. Nothing else for me to say about it anyway.
 
dragonflyreptiles said:
Tail band #6 counting from the tail up is what does it for me, it is no where near the same. Bills is an aorrow shape, almost perfect arrow and Lee's looks like a slegde hammer, nothing like an arrow.

At any rate, Bill is no longer posting here so I will keep my opinions on this matter at what are posted and leave it at that. Nothing else for me to say about it anyway.
Click to expand...
Actually Wendy, imagine that the "head" of the hammer/arrow is wrapped around the cylindrical body of the snake and viewed from an opposite view, as they are. They could easily be the same object. You would be viewing that "curve" from a reverse angle and flattening it into two dimensions.

It's like the tall building photographed from street level with a wide angle lens. The lines converge and the building actually appears to curve. The same building photographed properly with a tilt-shift lens will have straight lines. Same object, different picture.

Similarly with DAND's avatar. That is a close up of his dog's face, most likely taken with a normal to wide angle lens from a short distance, totally distorting the relative anatomy. The nose looks bigger than the face. The same magnification could be achieved with a longer focal length (ie telephoto) lens and "normal" proportions would be preserved.

My point is that because of the differences in technique you cannot say those are different. On the other hand, the areas that are the same are strikingly so.
 
Ok I guess this proves Im not really a man of my word Im back after I said I wouldnt be So i'll take another wack for that ..I do appericate all your offers But anybody who knows me or has talked to me in chat Knows what is going on with me... so to put it all out there I went in for surgery on the 21st of june me selling of my snakes was to compensate a little of the cost (no insurance) I am a man that will not ask anybody for anything and even though its looking bleek by the second, Im not going to ask now even tho its still a 50-50 on this snakes looks, all I can say is I'm sorry if it looks bad for me but the only ones who know what is the truth is, is myself and the lady upstairs So For brucestephenson, CheriS, dragonflyreptiles, DThomas, ecmorrell, gatorbabies, gregh, HerpLuver, Jim O, liquidleaf, lucille, Manhattan Herps, Mark and Aimee, mindcrash, ms_terese, snakewrangler89, Zoo Supply And anybody I may have missed Im sorry if I betrayed your trust and if anyone of these for mentioned people want to e-mail me or say it here and tell me to go I will other then that I'll bleed out slowly as this all goes on...
 
GOOD LORD---IT IS THE SAME SNAKE ALREADY--NO DOUBT--INVERT THAT TAIL PATTERN WENDY AND TAKE THE PIC AT A DIFFERENT ANGLE AND IT WILL LOOK DIFFERENT---THE GUY SCAMMED LEE---GOT VICIOUSLY BUSTED AND NOW HAS TO PAY THE PRICE FOR STEALING MONEY--BECAUSE WHEN IT COMES DOWN TO IT---HE STOLE MONEY FROM LEE----STOLE MONEY!!!--that is it-it is done-that is as crooked as it gets-i love how he got religous at one point in a post he put up-seems like some people tend to do that as well when they are scamming you out of money. The best thing this guy could do right now is grow a set---admit he lied and stole and take his medicine. I mean for christ sakes--he has children-what kind of example does he want to set for them?- :uzi:
 
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