• Responding to email notices you receive.
    **************************************************
    In short, DON'T! Email notices are to ONLY alert you of a reply to your private message or your ad on this site. Replying to the email just wastes your time as it goes NOWHERE, and probably pisses off the person you thought you replied to when they think you just ignored them. So instead of complaining to me about your messages not being replied to from this site via email, please READ that email notice that plainly states what you need to do in order to reply to who you are trying to converse with.

  • IMPORTANT! PLEASE READ!! About the Google Adsense ads being displayed

    =====================
    Posted 08/15/2025
    =====================


    Yeah, I know. They are a pain in the butt. But they pay the bills to keep my server running. Just a fact of life, I am afraid.

    Want to get rid of them? Simple. Just become a Contributor level member or above and they will be gone. -> Please click HERE."

    Is that too much for me to ask of you to keep this site running? Well, sorry about that. I too wish I could get everything for free. But alas.....

    =====================
    Addendum: 01/10/2026
    =====================


    Google Adsense ad revenue for December, 2025 was just $30 over the cost of the lease for the server running this site. So, in effect, the money providing the incentive for me to continue running this site is coming SOLELY from the paid memberships and sponsorships here. Which honestly ain't much....

Bill Leverton SCAMMER beware

He tried to steal a snake and got caught. Ok. Apparently it's a first. If it's not then he's REALLY good. Now what?

Sorry Wes, but on this one we disagree. He did not try to steal a snake. He stole a snake. Not only did he steal a snake but he received money for the stolen animal. Not only did he receive money for the animal but he tried to make more money by selling it. He could have sold any of his other boas but that one, according to his words, was not on his breeding plans. So there was a rational plan behind it. This is not a kid that grabbed a snake from a show and run with it, that’s irrational but maybe not premeditated. Not only did he try to sell the boa but when confronted with the evidence lied repeatedly and tried to buy his way out. It was not until everything was so evident and was given the “opportunity” to prove they were different snakes (camera loan) that he decides to confess. But not only does he confess but he stays around and tries to issue philosophical explanations to his behavior. At least some of the people that have scammed have disappeared from the face of the earth. Not Bill, he knows how this works, after all as you say he is not a newbie.

When you say:

This isn't some newbie that has no name and no history. Exactly my point This is not some known crook or suspected scammer. This is an up til now good guy who seriously screwed up.

that’s exactly my point. I could see where a “newbie” as you say might fall for this. He probably doesn’t know better. But we can’t argue that on Bill’s favor. You, and I as well as several other members here had hit hard on those so-called newbies. Teenagers that didn’t know better went down fast, and to be honest although we might have made a few mistakes, in most instances I have no remorse about it. But we need to be impartial on this. If not this site will turn into what other people have long been advocating.

Regards.
 
I guess I am one of the ones who owe Lee an apology. I'm no good at all of that "photoshop" crap or whatever it is.....from the initial pictures, it DID look different to me....but I was obviously wrong.

I'm just in shock, I guess......but the apology is very much deserved. I AM truly sorry.
 
You know, this reminds me of the saying "Character is who you are when nobody is looking." I realize this is contrary to what most of you want to believe about Bill but unfortunately, he showed us what his true character is.

It took Bill almost 3 months to decided to admit that he stole the snake. But, it was only AFTER he tried selling it and got busted, lied numerous times on this board to people that considered him a friend, shattered most everyone's reality about him, and was finally backed into a corner with irrefutable proof. These are not the signs of a well-intentioned or honorable man and certainly not one that I will call friend. I can, with a clear conscience and determination, state that I will NEVER do business with him again, period.

Wes, I understand your willingness and desire to delve deeper into this situation as who in their right minds would want to believe that this is really what meets the eyes? I know I don't. However, I also firmly believe that we are seeing the full story here or at least enough of it to make a permanent judgement founded in facts. To be blunt, it does not mean one iota if Bill was having financial difficulties, marital problems, or the Black suited IRS man was standing at his door. He, when it counted the most, willingly and with premeditation, stole from another person. That to me is completely and utterly inexcusable regardless of the situation.

I also understand the Super Mod position on the Good Guy board. Rich had a specific idea as to how this is to work and I support that. Thus, I placed a bad guy post on the poll and I would urge EVERYONE else to follow suit. I would also urge Bill to remove his positive post in the same poll.

Needless to say, I am going to limit most of my future transactions to face to face deals so that I can ensure nobody ever claims that one of my animals escaped or never arrived. I guess you can say I am a bit wiser now because of that. Although I have to admit, I wish this was one area that I remained ignorant about. Just never saw this one coming........

Bob Woodard

PS Greg, if Fraizer says your good then that is all that matters. Just don't let me down! ;)
 
Bob,

Bill asked his good guy status to be removed. Some view this as the “honorable” thing to do. On the other hand it might also be viewed as just one way to make all this go away as fast as possible (just like his attempt to end this thread by returning the $200 to Lee). This thread will sooner or later vanish out of sight whereas a bad guy status will stay up there for everyone to see. Unless of course Bill is “lucky” enough to have 50% of the people vote him a bad guy, then the whole thing will go away (as per the current rules). Which of the two do you think will be less damaging?

Regards.
 
Well I've read through this drama and probably sent and received more PM's and reputation points than any other single thread.

I don't know Bill at all... we may have exchanged a PM or two in the past, or reputation points, or agreed with each other on this or that thread, but that is the end of that. I doubt that I would ever do business with him even if this all didn't hit the fan, as he's into boas, and I'm not.

I'm with Wes on this entire thread. There are two sorts of "camps" on this thread and I'd like to give a little perspective in my hope that Bill has only just messed up (big time) this once and will learn.

I believe it IS possible to mess up, and mess up big. I did something similar (yet different) once upon a time a VERY long time ago. I know what it felt like when I realized the error of my ways, and especially when I knew that an individual I liked and respected realized my error as well. I was quite a bit younger then. I felt sick to my stomach. I couldn't believe I had done what I did do. I made recompense at the time, over and above my petty crime, but the worst thing wasn't what my friend felt towards me, it was what I felt towards myself. It was awful. I can't even begin to describe how it felt for me. I made my error up, as much as was at all possible, by repaying the money, profuse apologies, etc. I'm sure the two individuals involved in that issue still remember it as a disappointment to them. I am also sure I remember it much more acutely. That experience helped to define who and what I am today. I was down at the garbage level for a while and I couldn't stand it. I climbed out and would never ever go back.

A real scammer doesn't notice the filth and slime of the level on which he lives. He sees the dollars he rakes in for his crimes and has a real low opinion of the people he scams. Probably calls them idiots and morons and is grateful they exist so he can bring in more money. That sort of person (and we DO know a number of those from this board) exists and thrives in this universe of ours. Time will truly tell if Bill is someone who made a mistake, or if he found the level at which he belongs. While his actions are AWFUL and will TAINT his future associations on this board, if they were a mistake and he can't stand the filthy scummy level he is at, he WILL try to climb out and having seen what it is like at that level try to never go there again.

So the real question is: is Bill Leverton a lying scumbag scammer who has no conscience and who will dwell amongst the scum forever.... or is he someone who messed up and who will learn from his mistake ... never to do it again?

YES... a lot of you are going to object to the term "messed up" and say "He STOLE, HE LIED" and wonder how I can have hope for his eventual climb out of the scum.

I teach at-risk high school students, many of whom miss my classes because they must spend time with their Parole Officer. I have hope for all of my students, while sometimes despairing of those who lack even a rudimentary conscience. If I didn't have hope for these kids, then who would? By my very nature as a teacher, I must believe in the ability to change and make something new of oneself. Until/unless Bill proves himself to be among the real lowlifes out there, I won't wholeheartedly condemn him.

I feel sad and sick to my stomach over this whole thing. I'm glad that the BOI helped to bring this to light. I hope Lee understands that the opinions shared that stated that the snakes were different were just that: opinions. I'm glad Lee is going to get recompense for his loss and hope he will continue to frequent the BOI.
 
It seems to me that if you need to apply to be considered for Good Guy status then you can also resign without the need for a vote.
Just MHO.

Kevin Murphy
 
"You know, this reminds me of the saying "Character is who you are when nobody is looking." I realize this is contrary to what most of you want to believe about Bill but unfortunately, he showed us what his true character is.

It took Bill almost 3 months to decided to admit that he stole the snake. But, it was only AFTER he tried selling it and got busted, lied numerous times on this board to people that considered him a friend, shattered most everyone's reality about him, and was finally backed into a corner with irrefutable proof. These are not the signs of a well-intentioned or honorable man and certainly not one that I will call friend. I can, with a clear conscience and determination, state that I will NEVER do business with him again, period.

Wes, I understand your willingness and desire to delve deeper into this situation as who in their right minds would want to believe that this is really what meets the eyes? I know I don't. However, I also firmly believe that we are seeing the full story here or at least enough of it to make a permanent judgement founded in facts. To be blunt, it does not mean one iota if Bill was having financial difficulties, marital problems, or the Black suited IRS man was standing at his door. He, when it counted the most, willingly and with premeditation, stole from another person. That to me is completely and utterly inexcusable regardless of the situation.

I also understand the Super Mod position on the Good Guy board. Rich had a specific idea as to how this is to work and I support that. Thus, I placed a bad guy post on the poll and I would urge EVERYONE else to follow suit. I would also urge Bill to remove his positive post in the same poll.

Needless to say, I am going to limit most of my future transactions to face to face deals so that I can ensure nobody ever claims that one of my animals escaped or never arrived. I guess you can say I am a bit wiser now because of that. Although I have to admit, I wish this was one area that I remained ignorant about. Just never saw this one coming........"
Bob Woodard


This is probably the best post confession post I have seen in this thread. While I do feel bad for Bill like many others here, but I think We need to listen to Bob, Dan, and Joe (now that he has cooled down a bit :) )a little more. Good guy or not in the past, Bill did very wrong, and should be treated accordingly. Many people here let his good guy rep cloud their judgment about Bills possible guilt, and now that his guilt has been determined we (myself included) are making excusses for him. We need to look at the facts, and Bob's post here sums up the situation very well. Like I said, I feel bad for Bill like so many others, but I think we should ask ourselves this: Is there a possibility he knew we would feel this way if he played his cards right. I think there is a big possibility that that is the case. Either way, I would rather reserve my support for Lee, the guy that brought this to our attention in the first place. Enough said from me on this.
 
The BoidSmith said:
Bob,
Bill asked his good guy status to be removed. Some view this as the “honorable” thing to do. On the other hand it might also be viewed as just one way to make all this go away as fast as possible (just like his attempt to end this thread by returning the $200 to Lee). This thread will sooner or later vanish out of sight whereas a bad guy status will stay up there for everyone to see. Unless of course Bill is “lucky” enough to have 50% of the people vote him a bad guy, then the whole thing will go away (as per the current rules). Which of the two do you think will be less damaging?
Regards.
Dan, Personally it is neither, Its the right thing to do, as far as Im concerned it can go to the bottom of the pile and once a week somebody could bump it to the top. As a reminder that sometimes in life even the best of people are foulable. I made a mistake, That I have to live with, and if this tread gets bumped to the top it will be a reminder that I did it.
 
I suspect I have found the root of some of your misperceptions on my approach to this particular incident. I do not, as a rule, approach things at anything less than "all out destroy all opponents" mode and this time I was in, unbeknownst to you all, "approach from the side and get some facts, something is off here" mode. I don't use the second one much as it just isn't necessary.

I am STILL NOT trying to excuse or make any lighter what Bill did.

I am saying that I think there is more to this than he has said so far. I am not suspicious that he has done this to others, I don't think he has.

I agree that his certification should be removed. I have NO issue with those of you who would never do business with him. I have no issue with those of you who would. I may be completly off in my suspicion that there are more factors still in the shadows which may be relevent to this issue. But I don't think so.

I'm neither defending Bill nor what he did. I am saying that if y'all are headin' for Crucifien' Hill, I'll take a pass, this one doesn't rate it. He's not lying about it, he's not making excuses for it, he's maybe being a bit melodramatic about it being bumped to the top on a weekly basis but I can let that slide. It's hard knowing you're a ****up.

It's a shame you screwed up Bill and I hope it doesn't happen again.
 
Actually for all of you who are surprised by Wes, I believe he is not out of character at all here. I have seen him reach down and lend a hand to a fallen person so long as they were truly repentant and wanted to better themselves.
 
wilomn said:
I'm neither defending Bill nor what he did. I am saying that if y'all are headin' for Crucifien' Hill, I'll take a pass, this one doesn't rate it. He's not lying about it, he's not making excuses for it, he's maybe being a bit melodramatic about it being bumped to the top on a weekly basis but I can let that slide. It's hard knowing you're a ****up.
It's a shame you screwed up Bill and I hope it doesn't happen again.
Wes I agree It was a bit melodramatic it was really just to make point. I guess The point was lost ....the point was "Even the best of people foulable" and need to be remind of it some times............Wes for what its worth It wont happen again :)
 
hard to believe

This whole thing is hard to believe. Hard to believe someone would get a shipment and say there was a hole in the box, and gee, the snake must have got away. How can you protect yourself from that?

I sold a horse this year and the buyer sent a shipper to my friend's farm where I was keeping the horse. The farm helper asked the shipper for a reciept and they wouldn't give him one. My friend says, after she finds out, boy was that a deal, wouldn't use that shipper again. Who is to say they even picked up the horse? Or what condition it was in? Then what if the horse "disappeared" or "got sick" on the journey? It didn't even dawn on me that such a thing could happen. Guess I'm lucky because the horse arrived at its new owners safe and sound and she even sent me photos to prove it!

So, from the experience people, how can you protect yourself from mail fraud? or "delivery" fraud?
Donna
 
snakehorse said:
So, from the experience people, how can you protect yourself from mail fraud? or "delivery" fraud?
Donna

Answer:
By using FedEx and getting approved by them to ship live reptiles, and another way is to be certified by Delta Airlines. Delta is the easier of the two to get.
 
Wes,

No one is trying to crucify Bill. But we are not giving free passes either. You are letting your friendship cloud your judgment. Please bear with me that I’m not judging Bill but his action. He stole, he put up for sale stolen property, and he lied to cover his tracks. You steal, you pay the consequences, it doesn’t matter if it was your first offense or if you are a known personality. That’s called being impartial. That’s why when jurors can’t be impartial they are dismissed.

Again, this sets a huge precedent and people are watching as we type. If you take this course of action don’t be surprised when in the future your comments about any “real bad guy” will be dismissed by some. Your protectionism in this instance will be used against you. This is no mistake, please don’t mess with words. A mistake is unknowingly shipping the wrong sex (and you know we have hit hard on that one), shipping less snakes than agreed “by mistake” or a different one “by mistake”. This is theft, plain and simple. Bill has to consider himself lucky if it ends right here, but that’s about it. Can he change with time? Only time will tell. But right now we can’t support him if we want to have any credibility at all as a site. If we bend the rules on this one then we have definitively turned everything into a joke. People have been banned from this site because of uncivil replies (uh Wes? ;) ), don’t you think this is a “tad” worse?

Sasheena I hear you, but this is not a kid that doesn’t know better. This is a grown up that has seen over and over this sort of behavior and has seen the consequences of such actions. He knew the risk he was taking, and he waited three months before putting up the boa for sale. This was not something that happened in the heat of the moment it was something premeditated and when he was finally caught he decided to confess.

If some feel they want to let this one go by with just a reprimand so be it. But please don’t come back arguing when someone says this site is a joke, and don’t even try to question someone that comes in here in defense of a friend that has scammed someone else.

Again, sorry Bill, it’s not about you but the action and the future of the BOI, what’s at stake here is more than it seems.

Thanks
 
The BoidSmith said:
Wes,

No one is trying to crucify Bill. But we are not giving free passes either. You are letting your friendship cloud your judgment. Please bear with me that I’m not judging Bill but his action. He stole, he put up for sale stolen property, and he lied to cover his tracks. You steal, you pay the consequences, it doesn’t matter if it was your first offense or if you are a known personality. That’s called being impartial. That’s why when jurors can’t be impartial they are dismissed.

Again, this sets a huge precedent and people are watching as we type. If you take this course of action don’t be surprised when in the future your comments about any “real bad guy” will be dismissed by some. Your protectionism in this instance will be used against you. This is no mistake, please don’t mess with words. A mistake is unknowingly shipping the wrong sex (and you know we have hit hard on that one), shipping less snakes than agreed “by mistake” or a different one “by mistake”. This is theft, plain and simple. Bill has to consider himself lucky if it ends right here, but that’s about it. Can he change with time? Only time will tell. But right now we can’t support him if we want to have any credibility at all as a site. If we bend the rules on this one then we have definitively turned everything into a joke. People have been banned from this site because of uncivil replies (uh Wes? ;) ), don’t you think this is a “tad” worse?

Sasheena I hear you, but this is not a kid that doesn’t know better. This is a grown up that has seen over and over this sort of behavior and has seen the consequences of such actions. He knew the risk he was taking, and he waited three months before putting up the boa for sale. This was not something that happened in the heat of the moment it was something premeditated and when he was finally caught he decided to confess.

If some feel they want to let this one go by with just a reprimand so be it. But please don’t come back arguing when someone says this site is a joke, and don’t even try to question someone that comes in here in defense of a friend that has scammed someone else.

Again, sorry Bill, it’s not about you but the action and the future of the BOI, what’s at stake here is more than it seems.

Thanks
Dan I understand, I did something that this has never seen I'm sure, And i don't have a problem being accountable for what I did
 
Clearwater_Reptiles said:
Dan I understand, I did something that this has never seen I'm sure, And i don't have a problem being accountable for what I did
Dan I understand, I did something that this site has never seen I'm sure, And i don't have a problem being accountable for what I did
 
So we open up the quarrel
Between the present and the past
We only sacrifice the future
If it’s the bitterness that lasts

So don’t yield to the fortunes
You sometimes see as fate
It may have a new perspective
On a different day
And if you don’t give up, and don’t give in
You may just be o.k.
 
First let me say that I like Bill and if everything to this point is as it seems, well....... Bill was one of the people that when I cliqued (that was for your Rich) on "New Posts" and seen his name, I would read that thread regardless of what forum it was in. Bill was one of the people here whose opinion carried some weight with me and *might* get me to rethink my own.

Why? He always carried himself as someone who is honest, fair and caring. Because Bill is intelligent, insightful, has an eye for detail, he could smell BS a mile a way and always had the guts to call it just that.

Which brings me full circle and to my point...... Because of all of these qualities and because Bill did not just fall off the turnip truck, the only thing we can call this is BS. This is as BS as it gets. This is as bad as any of the scams pulled by the Scam Greats. This was stone cold. This was flat out calculated and premeditated. It is BS and if it were someone else Bill would be the first to call it what it is and not pull any punches in doing so. There is no other way to paint this folks, as sad as that is.

You know, I also wonder how many BOI bad guy threads Bill has been involved in during the last three months. Not any I hope. That would just be another blow to think that he could rob someone and then run around on the BOI preaching at other thieves.

This is hard. It really sucks. No other way to put it if things are as they appear. Bill, you are a scammer man. I will never trust you again.

I still like you though Bill and do not believe that you are a career criminal. Hell there are a lot of people in this world I like that I do not necessarily trust. As much as it sucks, you get added to that list.
 
Back
Top