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Bill Leverton SCAMMER beware

Ophis said:
No....he deserves to be ostrasized and cast aside along with the rest of the scammers he has cast in his lot with. If you have viewed this thread, weighed the evidence at hand and can honestly come to the conclusion that there is not enough evidence to prove that Bill Leverton pulled a low down dirty scam.........I feel sorry for you.
Click to expand...

Take a deep breath there Opie.

I suspect Shasheena agrees with most of us that there were indeed some underhanded dealings here and Bill did them.

What she and I and perhaps a few others are saying is that there is MORE to the WHY he did it than we know right now. Is it within the realm of possibility that there are mitigating circumstances? Barely. Do I expect to find them? No, but I'm eternally optomistic.

It's not the WHAT so much, that has been established. It's the WHY. I know it's confusing since both words start with W and H but they do have different meanings that I find important.
 
When I voted

him as a bad guy it pertains as wether I would buy/sell or trade with him. I'm not interested in finding out how his family is run or other areas of his personal life.

If you put yourself in the role of a person looking at doinf business with him and don't have any negative thoughts or hesitation then vote good guy. If doubts and concerns arise due to what happened then you have an obligation to the system and to fellow herpers to vote bad guy.

Doing so does not or shouldn't effect whatever type of non business relationship you have with him.

As the saying goes: ' I wouldn't trust him with my sister' doesn't mean that other things he can't be trusted with. I'm sure people have friends and relations where lines are drawn. Such as lending money too, etc.

This applies to here. Saying that he is a bad guy in the herp business doesn't mean you wouldn't throw water on him if he was on fire. (throw water was used to supplement another known saying)

This was to make up for the .5 deficit from my last post.
 
No....he deserves to be ostrasized and cast aside along with the rest of the scammers he has cast in his lot with. If you have viewed this thread, weighed the evidence at hand and can honestly come to the conclusion that there is not enough evidence to prove that Bill Leverton pulled a low down dirty scam.........I feel sorry for you.
Click to expand...

Where.... WHERE have I said I believe he is innocent of the charges leveled at him? His was no plea bargain, he didn't confess to get a lighter sentence... he is guilty of what he did. Did I say that loud enough for you?

I just happen to have a certain reluctance to go the barbeque and watch Bill's corpse burn as several people on this thread would have be his punishment.

I must say that the person I admire the most is Lee for keeping a positive and constructive attitude. My hat goes off to him. His is the example I hope to be able to follow.
 
wilomn said:
Take a deep breath there Opie.

I suspect Shasheena agrees with most of us that there were indeed some underhanded dealings here and Bill did them.

What she and I and perhaps a few others are saying is that there is MORE to the WHY he did it than we know right now. Is it within the realm of possibility that there are mitigating circumstances? Barely. Do I expect to find them? No, but I'm eternally optomistic.

It's not the WHAT so much, that has been established. It's the WHY. I know it's confusing since both words start with W and H but they do have different meanings that I find important.
Click to expand...

Maybe I'm just a stubborn sumbitch Wes but I think thats HOGWASH!!

If either you or Sasheena had 1/2 the evidence on one of the usual suspects there would be no GEE willickers. I wonder what caused ole Billy to viciously scam ole Lee there.Shucks, maybe there is some underlying reason! You would rip off the usual suspects neck and you know the rest. I'm tired of this double standard B.S!!!!!!!........The fact that this guy did what he did after achieving his status on this site speaks to the fact that Lee wasn't the ONLY ONE who was scammed!
 
Ophis said:
I'm tired of this double standard B.S
Click to expand...

Dude, call me a liar again and things won't be nice around here.

I have ONE standard. I do what I, capitol I, think IIIIII, should.

I have stuck to that standard for a loooooong time.

If YOU or anyone else doesn't like it, tough.
 
Sasheena said:
Where.... WHERE have I said I believe he is innocent of the charges leveled at him? His was no plea bargain, he didn't confess to get a lighter sentence... he is guilty of what he did. Did I say that loud enough for you?

I just happen to have a certain reluctance to go the barbeque and watch Bill's corpse burn as several people on this thread would have be his punishment.

I must say that the person I admire the most is Lee for keeping a positive and constructive attitude. My hat goes off to him. His is the example I hope to be able to follow.
Click to expand...

You are using dramatic visualizations to represent what you would not do to him. Let me ask you this then. Why don't you add some weight to youre argument and tell the crowd what you think of Bills morals and ethics and what you think his punishment should be. Save all of that Drawing, Quartering,burning corpses crap cause It just clouds the issue.
 
What she and I and perhaps a few others are saying is that there is MORE to the WHY he did it than we know right now. Is it within the realm of possibility that there are mitigating circumstances?
Click to expand...

Wes,

It’s been probably more than 24 hours since we heard that for the first time. You even asked Bill to PM you with his thoughts about why he did it. What did he say?

Thanks
 
Wes,

Under what mitigating circumstances would you personally steal a snake from someone? Only one that comes to mind for me personally is if I was forced to steal it back from someone who stole it from me in the first place.

I personally can not think of EVEN ONE mitigating circumstance that would even BEGIN to make a damn bit of difference. Can you? Bill had lots of snakes to sell if he truly needed cash for the welfare of himself or his family. So I do not want to hear that.

Please, maybe I am not seeing something clearly here and you can help me to the path of clarity. What possible mitigating circumstance could possibly make one iota of a difference for what he did? Name me just one.
 
wilomn said:
Dude, call me a liar again and things won't be nice around here.

I have ONE standard. I do what I, capitol I, think IIIIII, should.

I have stuck to that standard for a loooooong time.

If YOU or anyone else doesn't like it, tough.
Click to expand...

If you percieve that I called you a liar.....thats your problem. You want to try to make it MY PROBLEM go for it! I DONT like the tact you are taking on this one Wes and yep, its TOUGH....BUT I damn sure am not going to change MY tact.
We will just have to agree to disagree.
 
The BoidSmith said:
Wes,

It’s been probably more than 24 hours since we heard that for the first time. You even asked Bill to PM you with his thoughts about why he did it. What did he say?

Thanks
Click to expand...

As yet, nothing.

I'm willing to wait a bit, not changing my mind about his guilt or anything. I'm just willing to wait a bit and see if he does have anything to say.
 
Okay, Here Goes

You're dead right Chuck. I am to shallow a person so now I'm gonna break down and tell it like it really is. My true feelings are that the snakes in the pics are NOT the same. Bill has a complex where he is compelled to admit guilt just to get attention even at the cost of ruining his reputation. From now on he'll admit to many more wrong doings just to remain popular so be careful what you accuse him of because he'll take the bait and run with it.
Wow! I feel so much better now getting the truth out there. Not only that, but I feel SO MUCH DEEPER NOW. Thank you for this euphoric blissful feeling!
This whole thread is getting very strange. I don't know. Maybe I'm having one of those flashbacks they warned me about back in the 60's.
Now if you'll excuse me I've got to go ship out some boxes complete with holes in them and no snakes. After all, who's going to believe anyone complaining they got ripped on the other end after this? I mean we're all such deep people now aren't we? :rofl:
Give me a freakin' break will ya dude? :hot:
 
Greg Riso said:
You're dead right Chuck. I am to shallow a person so now I'm gonna break down and tell it like it really is. My true feelings are that the snakes in the pics are NOT the same. Bill has a complex where he is compelled to admit guilt just to get attention even at the cost of ruining his reputation. From now on he'll admit to many more wrong doings just to remain popular so be careful what you accuse him of because he'll take the bait and run with it.
Wow! I feel so much better now getting the truth out there. Not only that, but I feel SO MUCH DEEPER NOW. Thank you for this euphoric blissful feeling!
This whole thread is getting very strange. I don't know. Maybe I'm having one of those flashbacks they warned me about back in the 60's.
Now if you'll excuse me I've got to go ship out some boxes complete with holes in them and no snakes. After all, who's going to believe anyone complaining they got ripped on the other end after this? I mean we're all such deep people now aren't we? :rofl:
Give me a freakin' break will ya dude? :hot:
Click to expand...

Hey....now were getting somewhere.....this is that parallel universe thing I was talking about........right?
 
Facts, facts, facts...

Why don’t we forget for a moment about judging the individual and concentrate in the action. That’s all we know right now, we have ALL the facts, the rest is mere speculation. The actions are simple and they boil down to the following: theft, deception, and selling stolen property, all punishable with jail. It doesn’t matter if the house was on fire, if there were financial hardships or anything else. You don’t steal in self-defense, and you don’t scam a person’s money under duress. You are still responsible for these actions.
 
shrap said:
Wes,

Under what mitigating circumstances would you personally steal a snake from someone? Only one that comes to mind for me personally is if I was forced to steal it back from someone who stole it from me in the first place.

I personally can not think of EVEN ONE mitigating circumstance that would even BEGIN to make a damn bit of difference. Can you? Bill had lots of snakes to sell if he truly needed cash for the welfare of himself or his family. So I do not want to hear that.

Please, maybe I am not seeing something clearly here and you can help me to the path of clarity. What possible mitigating circumstance could possibly make one iota of a difference for what he did? Name me just one.
Click to expand...

Ophis said:
If you percieve that I called you a liar.....thats your problem. You want to try to make it MY PROBLEM go for it! I DONT like the tact you are taking on this one Wes and yep, its TOUGH....BUT I damn sure am not going to change MY tact.
We will just have to agree to disagree.
Click to expand...

Gentlemen, there is no disagreement. There are no mitigating circumstances that I know of.

I have a FEELING that there is more to this than I know. That's it. I NEVER said that an explanation, were one to be given, would make it all better. I've NEVER said it would be OK if there was a good enough reason. I've NEVER said that I disagreed with you about him.

All I've said, consistently, is that I want to know WHY.

Opie, what do you want to agree to disagree on? We both think he is guilty of theft. We both think he lied. We both are STUNNING specimens of the human male.

If you're trying to fault me for your lack of understanding my grassyknoll sililoqui(?) you're yapping up the wrong tree. YOUR understanding or lack thereof of my motivations or thoughts are not relevant. This is about Bill and what he did. I want to know WHY. I still don't.
 
Holy mother of God

It's taken me a long time to read through all of the poop, however I view people on their integrety as sellers, breeder's and buyers, and this is the worst example of a bad guy that I've seen on this board in a long time. I don't post often but I read daily. We've all seen some of the scams pulled here over the years, and the many bad guys outed, but a well respected member that steals, make my stomach turn!! There is only one other member of this board that know what I've been through over the past year (Thanx Greg Riso) and instead of scamming the good people of the reptile comunity with what look like healthy boa constrictor's I have a freezer ful of dead ones!! Years of hard work down the drain!! Will I recover? Yes because my integrety is more important than an extra dollar. My vote BAD GUY!!!
 
I remember those papers that got burned in the office fire. I was interested in those snakes, but it seemed like an obvious scam at the time. I was surprised to see Bill was a "good guy" when I checked here. Because I have an aversion to doing business with Florida folk I took a pass anyway.

Before I knew of the BOI Sal scammed me a while back. Because I found out about the BOI I was able to get my money (a small amount as some like to point out) back from him.

The BOI told me all was well with Bill and those missing papers. Maybe it was, maybe it wasn't? Who bought those snakes? How do they feel about the quality of that "deal" now?

The bottom line is that this episode has gone a long way toward dropping the credibility of the BOI community to zero. Sure...known scammers are likely scammers, but being a "good guy" doesn't mean as much any more. Lee was lucky, smart, and stuck to his guns. A lot of other people would have gotten ripped off and then been tarred and feathered for raising the issue here.

Bill Leverton pooped in the swimming pool.

Just something to chew on ....
 
Excellent points brought up by everyone. All very interesting.


After reading the last 10 or so pages, I suppose it's time that I mosey on over and cast a vote. Was going to hold off on it but one person made it quite clear what needed to be done.
 
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