Bill Leverton SCAMMER beware

[Chameleon Company]

Dennis and the Gang of Four ...

I think you do a great job. But since you asked:

For what reason would he be banned? We have never banned anyone here just because they stole or were caught lying.

OK, but people have been banned, for whatever reason, and I see few that rise above this, IMO. But with that said, this is a unique case, and probably a unique thread. He applied to be a good guy, and the bigger they are, the harder they fall? No precedent to date is not a binding reason to avoid precedent, circumstances warranted (threshold debatable, of course). Without the adjectives, am I to understand that people who are admitted thieves within the business, can maintain membership and post ads in Fauna, and while someone (and maybe droves) can see the ad and wave flags everywhere warning would-be buyers away, but a sale (and rip-off) may still occur? With Fauna as the vehicle of the ad? And if that person is able to execute some sort of name change, that might be noticed by far less of us, then it is the hope that those few (and maybe very few) will notice and do the flag waving? If the person was banned, every new persona, once identified by just one person and brought to your attention, would be axed. The Gang of Four has much flexibility in deciding what to do, and would be well within all slander and restraint-of-trade concerns due to the participation of Bill in his own crucifixion. Perhaps others who you note as having been "outed" , yet still reside here, would qualify for similar treatment. I'm not espousing that you need to run the tightest ship, but fix a few leaks? Make a few examples? Maybe put integrity back on top, as it now rides below whatever other reasons (serious, no doubt) that have resulted in a banning. All just IMO, and because you asked. If no change yet, so be it, and I can live with the status quo. But this episode begs for official sanctions.

Jim Flaherty
The Chameleon Company, LLC

 

[brianklein]

When I encounter someone in my daily life that proves out to be not worth my time, I do just that. I ignore them. I go out of my way to get out of their way.
I am guessing that this will not work for some of the herp community, but in kindergarten I learned that the best way to "best" someone was to iggy them. Try it you might like it. I realize that collectively we can probably not all skirt around "bad bill" but it is a way of abolishing him from the site without trying to convince the moderators to step in.........I am not ummm clueless enough to think that I have a simple answer that sums up pages and pages of people's time and thoughts but it is something that we can all do together, lol. I will quit now, nighty night all.
Brian Klein

 

[DThomas]

I think you do a great job. But since you asked: OK, but people have been banned, for whatever reason, and I see few that rise above this, IMO. But with that said, this is a unique case, and probably a unique thread. He applied to be a good guy, and the bigger they are, the harder they fall? No precedent to date is not a binding reason to avoid precedent, circumstances warranted (threshold debatable, of course). Without the adjectives, am I to understand that people who are admitted thieves within the business, can maintain membership and post ads in Fauna, and while someone (and maybe droves) can see the ad and wave flags everywhere warning would-be buyers away, but a sale (and rip-off) may still occur? With Fauna as the vehicle of the ad? And if that person is able to execute some sort of name change, that might be noticed by far less of us, then it is the hope that those few (and maybe very few) will notice and do the flag waving? If the person was banned, every new persona, once identified by just one person and brought to your attention, would be axed. The Gang of Four has much flexibility in deciding what to do, and would be well within all slander and restraint-of-trade concerns due to the participation of Bill in his own crucifixion. Perhaps others who you note as having been "outed" , yet still reside here, would qualify for similar treatment. I'm not espousing that you need to run the tightest ship, but fix a few leaks? Make a few examples? Maybe put integrity back on top, as it now rides below whatever other reasons (serious, no doubt) that have resulted in a banning. All just IMO, and because you asked. If no change yet, so be it, and I can live with the status quo. But this episode begs for official sanctions.

Jim Flaherty
The Chameleon Company, LLC

I understand what your saying and you bring up some valid points. What it boils down to is feasibility. There is just no way for us to police every single member here. The paid participation program was designed to help weed out some of the problems but as with anything, nothing is perfect.

I do suggest that if anyone is interested in the BOI being closed to all but paying members, start a thread in the feed back forum and let Rich know your wishes.

 

[The BoidSmith]

Sorry I was on the road since yesterday

That's the way I received that e-mail. This is one of my messages to Bill:

Bill,

You are sending the snake and the money back, fine. You don't want to answer
questions, fine. But this one you owe to the people you have been e-mailing
privately: Who did you sell the snake in the picture to? Because out of respect
for your past I'm going to tell you what's going through my mind: 1. you are
going to send the boa back and try to close this chapter (by doing so you will
leave SOME people with doubts); 2. you won't be able to produce any police or
UPS reports; 3. there was never a second boa. You don't know how much I want to
be proven wrong, you are tired, I'm tired, we are all tired.

Please prove me wrong, you don't owe to me but to yourself.

Thanks,

Dan

 

[DaveyFig]

For what reason would he be banned? We have never banned anyone here just because they stole or were caught lying.

Neil gubitz was banned in 03 for calling members of the BOI mental midgets, and encouraging using the BOI for entertainment purposes only, and basically making a mockery of it.

Bill has made a mockery the BOI.
Bill has made a mockery of the GGC.
Bill has made a mockery of religion.
Bill has made a mockery of every member here, family , "friends", everyone reading, and the moderators of this site.

Neil may not have done the right thing as fast as people would have liked at times, and not everyone is going to be happy. At least he explained his reasons, or tried to, for mistakes he made, and made an effort to correct them. He never flat out stole.Ever instance I can think of, he tried to compensate in some way, shape or form.He did encourage someone to take the BOI with a grain of salt though....BANNED

Bill toyed with everyone. He tried to turn his friends against someone who was obviously justified in posting. He later admitted to theft, all the while still privately trying to convince those same friends of his innocence, and lead them to believe that he WAS doing the right thing.The methods he used are almost creepy. Jesus Juice type stuff. Kept the important names from questioning him, bought time by dosing them with info (BS as it turns out).
There is no doubt in my mind that he is, or was using different names on the BOI.
I don't know how to wrap this post up nice and neat , so uh..yeah...there is what I am thinking.

 

[brianklein]

Maybe one of you hacker dudes could put a script into his machine that redirects him to KS or reptibid every time he tries to log on here. If it worked maybe he will think that we all dissappeared! Just trying to lighten the mood, don't mind me.....

 

[DaveyFig]

I was wondering if anyone else who posted that they would have posted the email if they had it got negative rep points for saying it. I can't think of a single reason why I shouldn't have posted it, and yet I got negative points, and this nice little note in the comments section.

What a dickhead move, especially since it wasn't your e-mail to post.

Can anyone explain to me why that email shouldn't have been posted? I thought that the timing was right, and just about everyone agreed that it was right to post it. Oh well.

 

[The BoidSmith]

My position as far as Bill situation has been clear since the start. If we don’t want to give credence to those that say the BOI is a joke Bill has to be suspended. There are a lot of honest people in this site. It is not fair for them to be posting side by side with a person who stole, deceived, lied (initially and to some of the members) and tried to talk his way out of it. Yes, he attempted to manipulate some members (including myself). But he was completely unsuccessful. All those that received that e-mail were patiently waiting for 7/20, then for Lee to post when he received the snake and the money. Bill was told that even that was not going to be enough. That he would have to prove that there was an “identical twin” boa. My thoughts were that Lee was delaying his post because he was waiting the package with the snake in addition to the $200. Right after Bill posted saying that “justice was served”, I replied asking him to post the additional information.

Regards.

 

[critical bill]

I'm still curious, Chuck, as to why when 7/21 passed you felt the e-mail should not be publicized?

I read the email, it appeared it was sent in confidence. I assumed Bill would be posting it at the appropriate time and if he didnt....who cares. Cant get much worse than a bad guy thread consisting of 120 pages on the BOI.

Don't you think that Bill had forfeited his right to any consideration beyond that?

To privacy? No.

And don't you think that is was totally germane to the issues raised in this thread?

Sure it was, and had it been leaked faster (before the thread got locked down) I can almost guarantee some boob would have posted it.

The fact that he used Wendy to add credibility to his lies speaks volumes about his character.

I kind of feel a bit dirty being on that email list myself. I dont like being a fan favorite of a bad guy one bit. I feel bad for Wendy because she supported Bill as a member and I believe she was a bit crushed by learning the truth. So yeah, he really sucked for doing that to her and to all of us.

If he was looking for a "middle ground" he has a deep mine to climb out of now, no light, no map, and the canary is no longer singing. JMHO of course.

I think your opinion is on the money. I think Bill really understands where he stands. I think he said it best in one his previous posts..." from now on everything with me will be cash and care". Or something like that....I think he meant "cash and carry".

So he knows! He knows the best snake he'll ever buy is at petco or petsmart. Period. No one will sell to him and who would now buy from him? I'm a luva of people, events and shows. If I had to hide my head in shame and shop at petco.....it would be a fate worse than death. He's finished.

So am I....night Jim....ya curious old fart.

 

[DThomas]

I think you do a great job. But since you asked: OK, but people have been banned, for whatever reason, and I see few that rise above this, IMO. But with that said, this is a unique case, and probably a unique thread. He applied to be a good guy, and the bigger they are, the harder they fall? No precedent to date is not a binding reason to avoid precedent, circumstances warranted (threshold debatable, of course). Without the adjectives, am I to understand that people who are admitted thieves within the business, can maintain membership and post ads in Fauna, and while someone (and maybe droves) can see the ad and wave flags everywhere warning would-be buyers away, but a sale (and rip-off) may still occur? With Fauna as the vehicle of the ad? And if that person is able to execute some sort of name change, that might be noticed by far less of us, then it is the hope that those few (and maybe very few) will notice and do the flag waving? If the person was banned, every new persona, once identified by just one person and brought to your attention, would be axed. The Gang of Four has much flexibility in deciding what to do, and would be well within all slander and restraint-of-trade concerns due to the participation of Bill in his own crucifixion. Perhaps others who you note as having been "outed" , yet still reside here, would qualify for similar treatment. I'm not espousing that you need to run the tightest ship, but fix a few leaks? Make a few examples? Maybe put integrity back on top, as it now rides below whatever other reasons (serious, no doubt) that have resulted in a banning. All just IMO, and because you asked. If no change yet, so be it, and I can live with the status quo. But this episode begs for official sanctions.

Jim Flaherty
The Chameleon Company, LLC

My position as far as Bill situation has been clear since the start. If we don’t want to give credence to those that say the BOI is a joke Bill has to be suspended. There are a lot of honest people in this site. It is not fair for them to be posting side by side with a person who stole, deceived, lied (initially and to some of the members) and tried to talk his way out of it. Yes, he attempted to manipulate some members (including myself). But he was completely unsuccessful. All those that received that e-mail were patiently waiting for 7/20, then for Lee to post when he received the snake and the money. Bill was told that even that was not going to be enough. That he would have to prove that there was an “identical twin” boa. My thoughts were that Lee was delaying his post because he was waiting the package with the snake in addition to the $200. Right after Bill posted saying that “justice was served”, I replied asking him to post the additional information.

Regards.

Neil gubitz was banned in 03 for calling members of the BOI mental midgets, and encouraging using the BOI for entertainment purposes only, and basically making a mockery of it.

Bill has made a mockery the BOI.
Bill has made a mockery of the GGC.
Bill has made a mockery of religion.
Bill has made a mockery of every member here, family , "friends", everyone reading, and the moderators of this site.

Neil may not have done the right thing as fast as people would have liked at times, and not everyone is going to be happy. At least he explained his reasons, or tried to, for mistakes he made, and made an effort to correct them. He never flat out stole.Ever instance I can think of, he tried to compensate in some way, shape or form.He did encourage someone to take the BOI with a grain of salt though....BANNED

Bill toyed with everyone. He tried to turn his friends against someone who was obviously justified in posting. He later admitted to theft, all the while still privately trying to convince those same friends of his innocence, and lead them to believe that he WAS doing the right thing.The methods he used are almost creepy. Jesus Juice type stuff. Kept the important names from questioning him, bought time by dosing them with info (BS as it turns out).
There is no doubt in my mind that he is, or was using different names on the BOI.
I don't know how to wrap this post up nice and neat , so uh..yeah...there is what I am thinking.

http://www.faunaclassifieds.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=44

 

[DaveyFig]

Noted and posted.
http://www.faunaclassifieds.com/forums/showthread.php?p=294194#post294194

 

[pardalis]

**ADVERTISEMENT**
Bill Leverton is a POS!
Lets keep pushing it, i am sure he is laughing his ass off behind our backs!
Quit giving him the satisfaction of posting and F*%k him! Sorry for the outburst but damn.

Greg

 

[LakesideBoas]

I am thoroughly dissapointed...

I was never a participant in this thread...for very personal reasons. This will be somewhat long so grab a soda/beer and cig. if necessary.

I had a deposit pending with Bill before his surgery, as he had something I was interested in and I wanted to help him out if possible. I really wanted this boa, unfortunately for me I hit a deer and cracked the head of my left femur on the streering column the day I was to send him his cash. He was to have surgery either the day after this happened or the next day after that. Needless to say our deal just couldn't happen at that time, but I considered him a pretty good fella, in fact I felt pretty darn guilty that I couldn't help him before he went in for his surgery so I keptn touch via phone and e-mail periodically.

I knew his son was coming to be with him him during his ordeal so I tried to keep in touch with him and see if he was okay during this time.

I never was a recipient of the original e-mail, so I can not speak for that. I did, however, call him once this thread was started as I just couldn't believe what I was reading, and got a heck of a story for my dime, I suppose.

He told me about the Boa being stolen by a UPS employee and his being contacted by a police department (no mention of which one) upon his return from Texas to visit his Daughter, which I had encouraged him to do after his surgery as it is always a comfort to be around those that care about you after any kind of major trauma in your life. He informed me that he had aquired some more Boas while he was there and being the Boa addict that I am I didn't see anything wrong with that--heck, I'da probably done that myself--LOL!

He read the e-mail verbatum to me over the phone while we were talking as I just could not believe what I had seen written here about the man I had spoken to on the phone and the man I was reading about. It boggled the mind!

As far as I understood our, Bill's and mine, conversation it entailed Lee also knowing about the police involvement, which he has not confirmed or denied, I will admit though, no-one asked Lee.

Why didn't you send Lee his snake back like you told me you would after it was done being processed and used as evidence, Bill? Or did you just think paying for it would suffice? That's not what you told me. Do you think I talk long-distance to people that are not related to me just to have so much smoke blown up my arse I smell like I've been involed in a forest fire???

 

[LakesideBoas]

Well shucks...

I guess I hit enter while I was proof reading the previous post--Durn computers!

I wish you would tell the folks here exactly what you told me on the phone Bill. I don't like feeling like this about you and I really feel sorry for Wendy as she kept what you mailed her in confidence and did just what you asked of her until the "time was right".

Those of us that wanted to and still want to give you the benifit of the doubt are now scratching our collective heads wondering if we have been had.

I'm sure if you tell the folks here what you most likely told Wendy and I then a lot of folks would say that you aren't the ogre they painted you to be.

I, personally, dont know what to think. I can't speak for Wendy or the others, but I'm sure they feel like grabbing some paper towels to wipe the egg off their faces too. (Already bought mine just in case). Did Lee know what was going on? That's what you alluded to me.

I know you don't feel like you have to Bill, and you really don't, I suppose, but it sure would help the rest of us that either stood up for you or reserved judgement to feel better for being on your side.

 

[Chameleon Company]

Maggie, thank you ...

.... for sharing some of the insider views you were privy too, and the anguish Bill has caused. But for those late-comers to this thread, who have no intention of spending the couple of hours it would take to read all posts, I want to reference something that was pointed out earlier regarding the issue of whether of not the email is truth or fiction, and what it means of Bill Leverton's guilt or innocence. Here's a piece of your post Maggie, and seems to envelope some of the doubts of others:

Those of us that wanted to and still want to give you the benifit of the doubt are now scratching our collective heads wondering if we have been had.

If the email is a lie, then Bill had theft of a $375 boa as his intent from the very beginning, negotiated down to $200 to help "share the burden" of the loss with the seller, Lee. If the email is true, then Bill was initially a nice guy (who still withheld the truth from Lee), but once the Boa was recovered, decided to keep it, thereby stealing the same $200 as he made no attempt to refund it. In either scenario, his own words and actions reveal lie upon lie, deception, and the repeated theft of "benefits of doubt" by all those who made it available. Your comment about "smoke up the arse" was dead on Maggie.

From a different earlier post, would also like to point out there is a difference between a "right to privacy" and choosing to respect someone's privacy. Bill had no right to privacy once he voluntarily sent out the email. Whether he deserved any respect for privacy ....... all of my meters say "No"!

Jim Flaherty
The Chameleon Company, LLC

 

[Jim O]

Maggie,

First, let me say that I am sorry to hear about your own troubles. I hope that your recovery is proceeding well and that you heal and regain full function.

Bill has lied and scammed and has been playing you. And the fact is plain that he didn't even know the genetics of this animal that he "bought" from Lee. He acquired it with the intention of stealing it or making a buck. Now he may or may not have acquired some snakes in Texas though if so, I am just a tad curious how he got them back to New York. But that's another matter that will never be answered to my satisfaction.

Pending criminal charges are a matter of public record. This could not have been a "secret". Heck, if Karl Rove is indicted will it be a secret? Had Lee been in on this, had it been true, then there would have been no problem whatever. Of course, had a snake been stolen by a UPS employee we know the SHIPPER (Lee) would have been notified. Lee has been here reading this thread and has posted and nowhere has he made a comment that anything other than EXACTLY what he posted actually happened. In fact Lee still has Bill voted as a "Bad Guy" in the GGC poll. Your questions are answered Maggie, and sadly they are the answers you do not want to hear and have a hard time to accept.

As long as you mention it, how did your deal with Bill turn out? Maybe you can ask Bill why he claimed that he had no insurance since he also claims to be retired military. And maybe that the name of the ADA who prosecuted the case will help clear the waters for Clearwater, but we know that will not be forthcoming.

 

[crotalusadamanteus]

Wow! This thing went OUT THERE.
IMO there are alot of wrong oppinions about those snakes.
IMO the cam angle is seriously decieving to the mind.

Example 1 the mark looks concaved...........

example two, (and we know these are the same snake), it no longer has a vertex, it has an obvious apex to the top of the mark...........

I dont say this because of any particular knowledge of ID on sankes. I say this because I work every day with 3D digital terrain models as a surveyor, and know first hand how the angle of view on a 3D object can drasticly change what you percieve. That said, I think the angle has changed enough, that this..........

could quite possibly be the same animal.

I dont wish to comment on all the "way out there" stuff, just on my oppinion of the pictures.

Ciao,
Rick

 

[LakesideBoas]

Maggie,

First, let me say that I am sorry to hear about your own troubles. I hope that your recovery is proceeding well and that you heal and regain full function.

I'm not gimping around anymore so I feel purty darn good that way! Thanks Jim!

Bill has lied and scammed and has been playing you.

I know.

Lee has been here reading this thread and has posted and nowhere has he made a comment that anything other than EXACTLY what he posted actually happened. In fact Lee still has Bill voted as a "Bad Guy" in the GGC poll.

Hence my post. I felt if things were indeed the way they were stated to me (and others) then Lee's post would have been much more inclusive. I still feel crappy for Lee.

Your questions are answered Maggie, and sadly they are the answers you do not want to hear and have a hard time to accept.

Yes, Jim, I guess they are. Oh, I'm accepting about it, not much else I can do--LOL! I feel like I've been "had" by Paul Harvey: "Don't say anything until you hear--->insert best Paul Harvey deep voice here<--- The Rest of the Story."

As long as you mention it, how did your deal with Bill turn out?

His surgery and my car accident were so close together that we just decided it was bad timing all the way around and never completed it.

Maybe you can ask Bill why he claimed that he had no insurance since he also claims to be retired military. And maybe that the name of the ADA who prosecuted the case will help clear the waters for Clearwater, but we know that will not be forthcoming.

I don't care if he had insurance or not, I never asked and never would. He never asked if I had any either. I do in case anyone wants to know. Insurance from my husband's union (Local 150 in case any want to know that too). I also have other supplemental insurance.<-----Now, doesn't that sound really stupid to have to post on a forum message board? (Hubby's standing here shaking his head. He's a good man and doesn't feel that kinds of personal information needs to be aired or asked in a public forum, I happen to agree with him.)

Since Lee hasn't posted anything to substantiate a claim of a suit of any kind I can only conclude he didn't know, which means there was no suit. Again, hence my post.

We've all been had, my friend! It's a shoe that pinches a lot and doesn't go well with any of my outfits--Grrr!

 

[pch101]

Maggie, everything Bill claimed in his "secret e-mail" was a lie. He played you, Wendy, and everyone else that wanted to believe that Bill could not do this. How was the snake photographed and posted on Reptibid, AND on his personal website along with all of his boas if it was not in his custody. Before anyone decides to answer that, consider that this snake was photographed in the same setting that many of the snakes in his collection were photographed in. How did he get those pics if it was in the hands of the cops? There is no way out. You got played, and Bill is laughing his butt off.

 

[Jim O]

Maggie,

I am glad all is proceeding "well" for you. I mentioned Bill's insurance only because it pointed to another inconsistency in his story. He claimed that he fabricated the story about the box because he needed money because he had to have surgery and had no insurance. At other times he claimed to have been retired military. All retired military in good standing have access to full health care benefits...so unless he is no longer in good standing or not really retired military he should have insurance. Hence my meaning was simply that there is yet another unanswered question that simply points to another lie. Nothing more.

Did Bill refund your deposit?