Bill Obston- Poor Business Conduct!

[thegeckohut]

THIS THREAD IS IN RESPONSE TO THE TERRIBLE CUSTOMER SERVICE I RECEIVED FROM BILL OBSTON. (his ID is northlight)

Here is the ad I responded to: http://www.faunaclassifieds.com/pp_classifieds/showproduct.php?product=17691&sort=1&cat=27&page=1

I e-mailed Bill in regard to the above listed ad. The price: SHIPPED FOR $200! I contacted Bill early Sunday morning to see if this pair of geckos was still available. He responded saying that they were and asked me to send a PayPay payment. I did so. Once the geckos were paid for, I considered them MINE. First come first serve right? He contacted me later that same day to tell that he refunded my money because he found a local buyer so he didn't have to ship. If he didn't want to ship, he shouldn't have listed the animals "SHIPPED FOR $200".
The status on the ad is now SOLD (Best Offer)...Go figure.
I tried contacting Bill twice on separate days following this incident to make him aware of my dissatisfaction. I was very polite and professional, yet never got any type of response from him.

In my opinion, this is evidence of Bill Obston's lack of professionalism and common courtesy. I would reccommend that anyone considering doing business with Bill Obston keep this thread in mind.

Below is the correspondence between Bill and I.

daniel vega <[email protected]> wrote:
Hi,
I would like to purchase this beautiful pair of cresteds your posted on fauna yesterday.
Please let me know if they are still available.
Do you accept PayPal?
I know you mentioned in your ad that you are trying to make room, but if you happen to see anything on my site that catches your eye, I would be more than happy to work a good trade. Check it out at www.thegeckohut.com
I look forward to hearing from you soon.

Bill Obston <[email protected]> wrote:
Hi Daniel, Yes the pair is still available. I do accept paypal and if you want, you can send payment of $200 to [email protected]. Sorry but I am not interested in trades at this time. Send me your address and let me know which day you would like me to ship. Thanks

daniel vega <[email protected]> wrote: Hi Bill,
i have sent the payment via PayPal. Please use this shipping address:
xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx (the address had been altered for obvious reasons)
Thank you for your time.

Will you be shipping tomorrow for Tuesday delivery?
Please contact me with tracking number for the shipment and ETA.
Thanks again.

daniel vega <[email protected]> wrote:
With all due respect, I believe since you told me those animals were available and I was the first to send the money, you should keep you end of the deal and follow through.
Please call me and I will be happy to re-issue the payment.
Thank you.

daniel vega <[email protected]> wrote:
Bill,
I feel that the choice you have made to sell the pair of cresteds to another party for the sake of convenience (not having to ship), is evidence of terribly poor business conduct. You told me the geckos were available. When I sent you the PayPal payment, the geckos were mine. If you didn't want to ship, you should not have advertised them "Shipped for $200". I am terribly disappointed in your conduct and hope you realize that the right thing to do is allow me to re-issue the payment and receive these geckos that should belong to me.
Thank you again for your time and I look forward to hearing from you soon.

 

[thegeckohut]

OOPS! I left out Bill's last response..

Bill Obston <[email protected]> wrote:
Hi Daniel I have refunded your money since I found a local buyer and this way I can avoid having to ship. I apologize. Bill

 

[Gecko_Den]

Daniel, while I can understand your disappointment in not receiving the geckos, I am not sure if this is a thread worthy of the B.O.I.

You posted the e-mails, but not the header info that includes time and date, so I am unsure of how much time elapsed between when you asked if he accepted payPal, and when he refunded your payment. If it was over the course of several hours it is possible that the other person contacted him prior to him getting your payment.

I'm not defending his actions, but if he didn't have payment, then they weren't really sold. Trust me I have heard the "I'm sending payment today" line many times only to never see said payment ever arrive.

Also, I noticed that the seller was in Wisconsin and you are in California. It is hard for me to fault the seller for not wanting to ship out of Wisconsin if the temperatures are too low, the well being of the geckos should be the main concern of both parties.

As I said, I'm not defending the seller, it would be great if he came here and posted his side of the story, it could be that this was a case of poor communication, mixed in with some hurt feelings caused by you not receiving the geckos that you wanted and in your mind considered yours, since you paid for them and all. Have you notified him of the existence of this thread?

 

[Gecko_Den]

Clarification post here... Daniel, as I re-read my previous post, it comes across as if I was suggesting that you were somhow at fault. I want to clarify that that wasn't the intent of my original post, and I feel that your e-mails to the seller, as well as your post here were polite and professional. I am still curious about lhow much time elapsed between e-mails as well as hearing the other side of the story.

 

[Bill_Leverton]

I contacted Bill early Sunday morning to see if this pair of geckos was still available. He responded saying that they were and asked me to send a PayPay payment. I did so. Once the geckos were paid for, I considered them MINE. First come first serve right? He contacted me later that same day to tell that he refunded my money because he found a local buyer so he didn't have to ship.

Sam unless I'm reading this wrong, I believe this all happened within the same day.

 

[BWSmith]

I don't think that it really qualifies as a "bad guy" post. More of an annoyance, in my opinion. Not having to ship is better for the animals. And he did immediately refund the money and give you an explanation of what happened. Communication and a prompt refund is a nice change of pace. I don't think you will have any problems finding other Crested Geckos

 

[Justin Mitcham]

I can relate to this post, the last two weeks basically the same thing happened to me from two different sellers. It is pretty aggrevating and perhaps may not be worthy of a post here, but it will certainly will cause some people to become quite upset and in most instances ruin a potentially prosperous relationship. To me a deal is a deal, and there are certain considerations that should be given to a customer out of respect and courtesy! If I were now to be asked privatly to give my experiences with these individuals they would most certainly be spoken of in a negative light. Basically to me if you action cause your customers to get upset then it is obviously not the way to conduct yourself.

 

[Gecko_Den]

Sam unless I'm reading this wrong, I believe this all happened within the same day.

I read it as being the same day as well, I was just curious as to how long it was between the first e-mail and when he got the e-mail saying money had been sent, not just when the e-mail was sent, but I'm wondering when he actually read the e-mail. Problem with only having one side of the story is that we can see how Daniel perceived things as happening, but have to guess on how the other party saw things, hopefully he was notified of the thread and will respond with his side of the story.

 

[Gecko_Den]

Basically to me if you action cause your customers to get upset then it is obviously not the way to conduct yourself.

What if you have 99 customers who are extremely happy and 1 upset customer? Should you change the "way you conduct yourself" to satisfy one customer at the risk of losing the other 99? Point I'm trying to make, since you brought this up, is that not every customer will be happy. Until both sides of the story are heard, I'm not sure that you can jump to any conclusions and decide that the seller did anything wrong.

 

[Justin Mitcham]

Your right not every customer will be happy, and your are correct that we should see what the other party has to say.

But on the other hand if I were to put up an add that says 200.00 shipped, and someone emailed wanting to purchase this animal ,and I told them to send paypal, I would then give them a day or so to complete the transaction, not everyone lives on the PC. It really amounts to communication. If the seller prefers local pick up , they should of stated that in the ad.

What if you have 99 customers who are extremely happy and 1 upset customer? Should you change the "way you conduct yourself" to satisfy one customer at the risk of losing the other 99? Point I'm trying to make, since you brought this up, is that not every customer will be happy.

I don't see how being polite and giving a person adequate time to reply or pay is going to upset my other customers!! Everyone understands 1st come 1st serve, but to mislead a person to point of paying then backing out due to convenience is not polite, maybe the sellers right. I could understand the situation if a day or two past without further communication but not if it was just hours.
If you were at a show, was buying an animal from a dealer who agreed and had advertised to ship the animal to your residence, and before you got the cash out another person swooped in and the vendor allowed him to take the animal because he didn't have to ship, wouldn't that be considered rude? Yes it is his right and prerogative, but it is not good business in my mind.
Seems today some sellers are more interested in being paid then taking care of the customer..Not saying this is what happened but it does happen often.
Sometimes I get emails regarding an item I have listed, in reading the emails the 1st person who emailed me may say .."will you take a Money order?" Another may say "will you take paypal?" Should I then discriminate between the two simply because of the payment method, I could and it is my right to do so...or should I discriminate due to who wrote 1st?? Personally I believe the person who wrote 1st should take precedence unless I stated otherwise in my ad..Just seems the right way to do things to me...

 

[Neil Gubitz]

Well, I see this transaction a little differently.... it goes to the seller's ethics, morals, honesty, professionalism, business practice and courtesy to his customers.... Once a customer agrees to a price, and the money is sent and accepted, the animal is no longer the seller's.... it belongs to the buyer.... it is now the seller's responsibility to keep the animal healthy and cared for, until it is delivered and accepted by the buyer....
What the seller did, in this case, was totally unethical and amoral.... in essence, he told the buyer to, "stick it" because he was able to get a couple more bucks for it.... that stinks!!.... I totally agree that this should be a BAD GUY post.... Granted, I do give the seller some minor props for returning the money quickly, but that's not the point....
He's basically telling the buyer to send him the money, and the animal is his.... UNLESS someone offers him a little more for it, then you're out of luck.... bologna!!.... I would never trust that seller again, or do "business" with him again.... I expect ANY seller to do what he SAYS he's going to do, and live up to his WORD!!.... Anything short of that should never be accepted, and should definitely be frowned upon.... It's just plain WRONG!!

Neil

 

[Lucille]

I contacted Bill early Sunday morning to see if this pair of geckos was still available. He responded saying that they were and asked me to send a PayPay payment. I did so. Once the geckos were paid for, I considered them MINE.

There is a critical piece of information missing here.:

In my opinion, if he agreed to the sale and knew you were sending payment, and you did send payment timely, y'all had a contract for sale.

The above 'if' is important: did he agree to the sale prior to payment or did he condition the sale on receipt of payment?

If he agreed prior to payment that he would sell to you, y'all had a contract based on his promise to sell and your promise to pay which he subsequently broke if he found another buyer.
If he conditioned the sale upon receipt of payment, however, and made another agreement prior to receipt, I do not think he did something wrong, many sellers will not hold an animal until they receive money and that is their prerogative.

 

[Neil Gubitz]

Lucille.... MY scenario was if he DID accept payment.... other than that, you are correct.... FIRST COME, FIRST SERVED.... I tell all potential customers, that email me about a particular animal.... FIRST PAYPAL GETS IT....

Neil

 

[Chameleon Company]

Had to give this one a look

Dan,
I understand both your disappointment at the way things went and your decision to want to post here. I think it would have been better for Bill to have honored his agreement with you than to have sold them to a local, but also don't think it is anywhere near as egregious as many other "bad guy" threads. While I think he was wrong, I also have to say that Bill didn't dilly-dally with your money, and sent it back as promptly as he could. While I and others appreciate the heads-up, I am leaning with those who don't see him as someone to necessarily avoid. But again, I can respect those who feel this was worse than I.
I did see a similarity here to a few other situations that I am familiar with of late, where auctions did not go as planned, etc. While this was not an auction, it is similar in that you thought you had "paid first" and that the animals were yours. Here's the piece of your note that I think warrants a second thought:

I am terribly disappointed in your conduct and hope you realize that the right thing to do is allow me to re-issue the payment and receive these geckos that should belong to me.

I am not saying that you should take a "sour grapes" approach here, but if you were my friend, I would have said that you shouldn't have wanted those geckos at that point. Reason being that at the time that you made that comment to him, the vendor-buyer relationship between you had already gone bad. While his integrity as a seller may have been compromised by his actions (ie, if he had changed his mind and taken your money again, would you now trust him on his TOS?), there's also the criticism that you leveled at him in that sentence. Whether justified or not, and I don't have any trouble with your being upset, it was not going to be received warmly by him, and the situation between the two of you had become antagonistic. Do you want animals from someone with whom you now have an antagonistic relationship? Call it a slim chance, but if you had kept this from the BOI and just lumped it, and Bill had ended up with another nice pair to sell, he may have come to your first. I hope you do find a good deal again son.

 

[WebSlave]

Actually, I agree with Neil on this one.

However, there is some issue of timing here in that a lot depends on "what did the seller know and when did he know it?"

Generally speaking, once the seller was alerted that a PayPal payment was pending for his merchandise, if ANY further offer were made to buy the merchandise, his response should be "Let me check to make sure that a tentative purchase has not been consummated first." If he had checked his PayPal account and the payment was NOT there, then that's the breaks for the first buyer, and he should have been quicker to initiate the payment. But if that payment HAD been made, whether or not the seller knew about it, he was committed to the sale to the original buyer.

It doesn't matter one bit that the payment was promptly refunded. If the buyer had preferred to have the money instead of the merchandise, then they just wouldn't have committed to buy the merchandise.

The issue of shipping or not shipping the animals is irrelevant. The whole point is committing to a sale and sticking to it, regardless, if the purchase met the requirements of your offer.

 

[Neil Gubitz]

...."I hope you do find a good deal again son."....

Jim, I didn't realize Dan was your kid??.... lol

Neil

 

[Chameleon Company]

Neil,
I am laughing at that one too ! As soon as I posted it, I realized the typo and that I had meant to say "soon", but couldn't change it. So I went and checked Dan's age, he's 24, and figured it would just have to ride. Must be a Freudian slip with this growing old stuff !! My apologies Dan.

 

[thegeckohut]

There was less than 6 hours between the time he confirmed the availability and the payment was sent. If in that time he found another buyer that paid first, I would have no problem. First come first serve. He should have said so. As you can see from his response, it seems to be more of a convenience issue (not having to ship) for choosing another buyer. Most of my frustration comes from Bill's lack response to my concern.

I would like for some closure on this subject as my frustration has been left unresolved. A simple phone call or email from Bill (which I have already asked him for) would suffice.

 

[Golden Gate Geckos]

This is a definite "Bad-Guy" post! Dan paid for those geckos, so they were rightfully his. Bill sold the geckos to someone else after Dan paid for them. Plain and simple, this means that Bill sold Dan's geckos. I can understand wanting to avoid shipping, especially in winter, but Bill's actions are far from being ethical. Those geckos were no longer his to re-sell.

 

[Gecko_Den]

This is a definite "Bad-Guy" post! Dan paid for those geckos, so they were rightfully his. Bill sold the geckos to someone else after Dan paid for them. Plain and simple, this means that Bill sold Dan's geckos. I can understand wanting to avoid shipping, especially in winter, but Bill's actions are far from being ethical. Those geckos were no longer his to re-sell.

Marcia, one quick thing, then I am going to bow out as it isn't my place to defend the seller, since I don't know him or all of the facts. A timeline STILL has not been established, no one that has posted so far knows for sure when the actual sale took place. Daniel knows when he sent the PayPal, but still hasn't shared the times from the e-mails with us. The seller hasn't posted his side, for all we know an hour after his first e-mail exchange with Daniel someone else may have purchased them, perhaps before the PayPal payment was even sent?

There is absolutely NO way you can say this is "a definite bad guy post", we do not have all the facts. Hopefully the seller will post his side and then a determination can be made.

Personally I agree with the consensus here that the seller should have given Daniel more than a few hours to make payment. I know I am usually guilty of waiting too long, just recently I held a pair for 5 weeks between when a deposit was supposed to be sent and when actual payment was made. But my sales practices aren't in question here, so back to the point I am trying to make...

I just think that too often lately a thread grows out of hand prior to hearing both sides of the story. Just as Daniel should have been given more than a day to make payment before the geckos were sold to someone else, shouldn't the seller at least be given a day to post his side of the story before being labeled " a definite bad guy"?

Daniel, I asked on page one if you would provide the actual times from the e-mails and also if you had notified the seller of this thread, will you and have you?