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Blocked glottis on snake -any advice urgently welcome

Helenthereef said:
Has anyone ever tried, or even heard of, fogging with disinfectant or steaming with Vapour Rub/ Eucalyptus? I swear there are advocates of this out there on the interwebs, but I don't want to experiment blindly....
Click to expand...
I have but have also read that Vapo Rub/Eucalyptus are not recommended for reptiles. You could just use plain water. If you've ever had a cold and taken a hot shower then you know how the steam softens things up so it's easier to clear the crud out of your sinuses. Basically it gives the snake the same kind of relief, though it just treats the symptom and doesn't cure the illness if the snake has an RI.
 
bcr229 said:
I have but have also read that Vapo Rub/Eucalyptus are not recommended for reptiles. You could just use plain water. If you've ever had a cold and taken a hot shower then you know how the steam softens things up so it's easier to clear the crud out of your sinuses. Basically it gives the snake the same kind of relief, though it just treats the symptom and doesn't cure the illness if the snake has an RI.
Click to expand...

Thanks Melinda, the online vet also suggested just a plain water steam without adding anything, but as it's currently 30oC / 84oF, and thundering (100% humid) I think just the air will do it.

I liked the idea of the Vapour Rub, as I can get it here, and it's relatively non-invasive, but I was hesitant to do it unless someone here had a direct (successful) experience of it.

It's funny what turns upon the ol' interwebs isn't it?
 
So, quick update, it's all like it never happened - I've had him under close observation for 5 days and he seems 100% normal, so I've put him back in his home tank.

I'm still a bit uneasy, but from what I read on here sometimes an RI can be
cleared up just by an increase in temps, right? It is a very warm week at the beginning of our summer right now, so maybe it just hit the sweet spot? Who knows.

Still not totally happy, but am going to try feeding him this weekend and see how it goes.

Thanks for helping me talk it out! :IThankYou
 
How to give IM injection?

3 weeks later and he's alive but not thriving. Found a vet with injectable Baytril, but no reptile experience. Can anyone please tell me the exact location that's best to give an IM injection? I'm assuming alongside the spine, but anywhere in particular? Thanks
 
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How to give IM injection?

He ate a small meal a week ago, but struggled, and wouldn't take a second. Now he's lethargic. Going to the (non-reptile) vet on Monday.
 
Injections in the front 1/3 of the snake, yes more on the side of spine along the back muscle. hold needle at angle to slide it between scales, not like straight in. Usually a good idea to put your finger on spot after withdrawing needle for a moment to ensure meds don't follow it out.
 
Baytril dosage

Well, I sucessfully gave my first Baytril injection yesterday at the vet's office, surrounded by a fascinated vet and 3 technicians, none of whom had even touched a snake before. (We are taking some of the healthy ones in on Saturday to run a handling session for them).

He seems fine this morning - it's very strange, he literally went for weeks between symptoms, but when he is having a problem it's dramatic and loud wheezing, and an obvious physical struggle to breathe in, with his mouth wide open. I can literally feel his lungs vibrating when he's struggling. His glottis was visibly open during one bout, though, so that's something.

For future information if anyone's in the same position, the dosage the vet and I agreed on is 5 mg Baytril / 1 kg snake, so as he weighs currently 2.6 kg, he needs (5 x 2.6) 13 mg of Baytril. (If it was to be given orally, it would be twice that).

Baytril comes in different strength liquids - my vet has 50 mg/ml (= 10 mg / 0.2 ml, or 1 mg / 0.02 ml), so to get the 13 mg, we need (13 x 0.02) 0.26 ml of the Baytril solution.

Because neat Baytril can cause cell death at the injection site, we are diluting this 50/50 with sterile saline, so we draw up 0.26 ml Baytril, then 0.25 ml saline, and let them mix in the syringe before injection of the total 0.5 ml.

So now it's just fingers crossed, I'm giving injections every 2 days for the next 4 weeks.

Thanks again for all help offered, this is the true value of these forums for me, and I really appreciate it.
 
He ate!

Quick update, 1 week into giving Baytril injections every 2 days, and he ate 3 small pieces of chicken wing yesterday.

I know we're not out of the woods yet, but it's such a good sign - he was moving around and tongue flicking as normal. No further wheezing or gaping. I am hopeful we are on the right track. :thumbsup:
 
Nice! I would keep the meals smaller than normal for a little while unless he truly needs the nourishment as abx can be hard on a snake's liver and kidneys.
 
bcr229 said:
Nice! I would keep the meals smaller than normal for a little while unless he truly needs the nourishment as abx can be hard on a snake's liver and kidneys.
Click to expand...

The problem is that he was at the end of his winter brumation when this started, and he actually hasn't eaten now for almost 6 months. He normally fasts for up to 4 months and doesn't lose any weight, but he's currently 300 gm down (10% of his body weight), and I'm concerned he won't have the energy to fight the infection.

He's normally a very eager feeder, grabbing 3 or 4 large portions at every feeding (usually every 2 weeks). This time I offered him 3 very small sections of chicken wing, and held the ends as he fed, to make sure he could easily ingest without blocking his airway. He fed very slowly for him, but I'm happy he has got something inside him. He is drinking as normal, and passed urates the other day.

I am concerned that it does require energy to digest. If I stick to small meals, would you normally feed him on his regular schedule, or more or less frequently?
 
For now I would stick to his regular schedule, just smaller meals, and bump him back up to normal when you stop the meds. I thought he had eaten fairly recently though?
 
I finally tried steaming

Thanks to all enquiring after Samael's health. I'm now over half way through the course of antibiotics, and I thought we were through the woods until last night when he went back to gaping and wheezing, and again had a thread of white mucus in his mouth. :(

As snakes don't have a cough reflex (which I only just found out when researching this), I think the quite violent wheezing and contorting are the only way he has of ejecting mucus from his lungs and airway.

I went back in with a soft pipette and baby toothbrush, and cleared his mouth of what I could, and he seemed better, but still breathing with some effort, so I decided it was worth trying the steaming idea. As has been pointed out to me, breathing warm steamy air is not a cure for an RI, but may temporarily relieve some of the symptoms.

I boiled water (no additives, just water) and put it into 2 Pyrex beakers (from a coffee press) and stood these in a small tub, inside a larger tub with him in it, with a towel over the top to prevent steam escaping from the airholes. I left him in that warm steamy atmosphere for 30 minutes under very close observation to ensure he did not come into contact with the hot water.

He stopped wheezing and gaping in the tub, and seems OK this morning (although I do understand I'm probably just projecting my own wishes onto him...), so I think it at least didn't do any harm and might have made him more comfortable in the short term. I'm going to continue doing this on a daily basis for a while, at least until I have finished the antibiotic injections.

He has now had three sessions of this wheezing and mucus projection, one at the start of all this, one a month later, which prompted me to start the antibiotics, and then this one, in the third week of antibiotics. Between these episodes he's seemed fine.

Can anyone with experience of RIs tell me if this seems normal? Do they often relapse after seeming OK, or it is usually all done once the symptoms stop the first time?
 
Here are some photos from last night - holding his mouth open with a plastic pipette to clear the white mucus thread; him gaping to breathe after clearing (but at least with an unblocked glottis); and him in the steaming tub.
 

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Poor baby. Sometimes we just have that one baby that’s always sick [emoji16] You’re doing great, Helen. I have very little experience with RI’s, so I’ll let someone else that knows, answer your question.


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Thanks for the sympathy. These snakes are usually so resilient I'm not used to having to nurse them - but thankfully he's a very patient patient. Can't imagine doing this with something less tame....
 
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