Bad Guy Boamaster (Mark Venhorst)

[bullies&balls]

Has Mark been notified of this thread?
Not trying to be biased or anything. But I have dealt with Mark for years now. His cages/racks are excellent and I swear by them. I have also purchased animals from him. I can't say there was never an issue, but when there was he would work out something so neither was feeling lke the had been "got". These situations were few compared to the many times we have done business. I would do business with him again, especially for cages.
Now I might take fire for this; but when dealing with flippers you take some risks and Mark does flip as well as breed. Not saying all flippers are bad guys, not at all. I know of some that do very well. But buying an animal from a breeder you forgo the risks posed by flippers. The animals history and lineage are easily known with breeders.
Always, always check the TOS. And there's usually a reason a deal seems to good to be true. You get what you pay for.
I hope that Mark addresses the situation and posts here. I am also sorry for your experience, but that's how we learn best.
Please post every thing you have in regards to e-mails, text messages, and vet bills. If I were you I would also contact him (or attempt to) and let him know of this thread.

TOS doesm't mean squat if the health of the animal is NOT disclosed honestly.
Only a SHADY individual sells sick (near death) aniamls.

 

[Iloverhacs]

Maybe laws are different in different states. Wouldn't you want in writing why your vet bill went from a regular check up to $400 or $1000. If you request one they have to give it to you, if nothing is shown, then why would you pay them? Hasn't any one learned if its not in writing, then it might as well not exist.

As far as mark, if you haven't shown him proof, then he has no reason to owe you. maybe he thinks your one of the annoying customers who buys on impulse, over spent, found a better deal, etc., and are trying to make something up to be refunded.

the end of they day happened...... No vet work appeared.

You should have had the vet work before you even thought of posting this thread.

 

[bear]

I too was sent a disgustingly sick snake by mark a year or two ago. Difference was I paid top dollar for it. He half A** corrected the situation and threatened me if I came here I wouldn't get any money back.

 

[Iloverhacs]

I too was sent a disgustingly sick snake by mark a year or two ago. Difference was I paid top dollar for it. He half A** corrected the situation and threatened me if I came here I wouldn't get any money back.

Maybe he did, but once again.... No proof....

 

[Skiploder]

Pics?

Receipts?

 

[bear]

pic and a few emails

Savannah Exotic Pets to venhorstrocks
show details 12/23/09
Here are the pictures taken 15 minutes after arrival on Wednesday December 23, 2009. These pictures clearly show the condition of the male sunglow. He will not eat F/T rats as of today which i video taped my attempts for my records. He is being kept in an Animal plastics rack system with a helix dbs 1000 t-stat controlling the belly heat.

Mark would not respond to this in email, he would only talk on the phone. On the phone he would threaten me and say he had sooo many deals that went good he didn't care about my deal and if I didn't take what he was offering and stay off fauna, he would give me nothing. In the end he shipped back the snake I partial traded for and sent back some of the money. I think in the end I was out $250 or 300. Oh and mites came with the snake too so that was nice...

sunglow
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Savannah Exotic Pets to venhorstrocks
show details 12/29/09
He did not take f/t rats again today and he also has mites, check your colony, this did not come from mine guaranteed. i treated the mites and i am going to try a live rat tomorrow, i feel a little better because he struck at the rat but did not take it so he is at least responsive in that respect. i'll let you know if he takes a live rat in the next 2 days.

Alberto
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[email protected] to me
show details 12/29/09
Ok
I check for mites weekly
And I have not seen any in a long time
Sent from my BlackBerry® wireless device from U.S. Cellular

From: Savannah Exotic Pets <[email protected]>
Date: Tue, 29 Dec 2009 01:38:43 -0500
To: <[email protected]>
Subject: sunglow
- Show quoted text -
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Savannah Exotic Pets to venhorstrocks
show details 1/3/10
ok mark, this boa still has not eaten. I was not able to get ahold of live but he shows no interest in f/t and i seriously doubt he would take live either. i would like to ship him back at this time. I have given him plenty of time to settle in and eat and he has been given the absolute best environment possible in my care. I feel it is only fair to reverse our deal. I would still like to keep the jungle so minus her send me 350 and the cinnamon ball back or i will give you the option to buy the cinnamon for 160 which seems more than fair. I am just trying to get my a** back on this deal, i needed and paid for a breedable sunglow and that is not what i received. total is 500 back to me if you wish to keep the cinnamon.

Alberto
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Savannah Exotic Pets to venhorstrocks
show details 1/5/10
Mark, we need this resolved asap, i need to purchase a new male asap. call me 810 706 1157
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Savannah Exotic Pets to venhorstrocks
show details 1/10/10
i tried once more after we spoke to offer f/t to him and no luck. i just tonight tried a live jumbo mouse with no luck as well.. I am going to provide him with a hide space even though hes in a rack and see if that might help him feel more comfortable.
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[email protected] to me
show details 1/10/10
Ok
Sent from my BlackBerry® wireless device from U.S. Cellular

Basically Mark would not communicate on email. i would send him messages and either receive no response or one word emails that did not help anything. Over the course of a few weeks I would call mark and he would assure me the snake is fine and keep trying to feed it.. In the end he sent me my snake back at my expense, and I was out $250 or something like that

 

[bear]

I am not here to get into some debate about the transaction trying to get my money back. Frankly, I could care less about a couple hundred dollars... I Just wanted to show the picture taken almost immediately after arrival and the fact that the boa came with mites... That alone should show the type of care Mark takes with his animals and what kind of business he does and that is all I am trying to prove.

 

[KenyanPat85]

Mark Venhorst

I have been dealing with mark for 5 years or so and I have never ever seen something like this. Not saying any of it isn't true. But in my dealings I've purches probably thousands of dollars worth and have gotten the top notch stuff. Good luck I hope he does the right thing. Patrick Goggin

 

[Slipmattic]

I myself still would like to see the vet records, showing all the proof of the things wrong with the animal(s). If the animal were in a sickly state, then you should have been given some type of documentation proving such. My vet gives me documentation of everything that was done, even if its a general check-up or full on diagnoses of what is wrong. As far as Alberto's situation with Mark, why are you now coming out about the issue? it has been roughly two years later. Sounds like to me your just jumping on the band wagon. Im not saying what he did was wrong. But if you stayed quiet this long, whats the difference from two years ago to now? If you truley wanted to bring this issue up on the BOI, you should have done so then...Which i do believe you still could.

 

[Bill T]

I myself still would like to see the vet records, showing all the proof of the things wrong with the animal(s). If the animal were in a sickly state, then you should have been given some type of documentation proving such. My vet gives me documentation of everything that was done, even if its a general check-up or full on diagnoses of what is wrong. As far as Alberto's situation with Mark, why are you now coming out about the issue? it has been roughly two years later. Sounds like to me your just jumping on the band wagon. Im not saying what he did was wrong. But if you stayed quiet this long, whats the difference from two years ago to now? If you truley wanted to bring this issue up on the BOI, you should have done so then...Which i do believe you still could.

I think he was just stating that he ha a bad experience with him also just like the people saying they had good deals with him,but then he was challenged to show proof .

 

[ShadowAceD]

I myself still would like to see the vet records, showing all the proof of the things wrong with the animal(s). If the animal were in a sickly state, then you should have been given some type of documentation proving such. My vet gives me documentation of everything that was done, even if its a general check-up or full on diagnoses of what is wrong. As far as Alberto's situation with Mark, why are you now coming out about the issue? it has been roughly two years later. Sounds like to me your just jumping on the band wagon. Im not saying what he did was wrong. But if you stayed quiet this long, whats the difference from two years ago to now? If you truley wanted to bring this issue up on the BOI, you should have done so then...Which i do believe you still could.

People tend to be apprehensive with calling out bigger breeders, but as you can tell by his posts, the monetary loss did not bother him a great deal and that is likely why he did not bother. It is not something I agree with, but in the end, he did provide e-mails and a picture.

Regardless ... I still want to see proof of the animals getting vet. care and I want to see photos of the animals as well, but just because Mark has a lot of great transactions does not mean he cannot have bad ones. In this world, the amount of good transactions are irrelevant when it comes to how you deal with a bad one.

Mark has been informed of this thread and does not appear to have any interest in coming to respond to it. That is speaking a bit more than I think people realize, but it does not negate the desire for hardcore proof.

 

[scaledverts]

I myself still would like to see the vet records, showing all the proof of the things wrong with the animal(s). If the animal were in a sickly state, then you should have been given some type of documentation proving such. My vet gives me documentation of everything that was done, even if its a general check-up or full on diagnoses of what is wrong. As far as Alberto's situation with Mark, why are you now coming out about the issue? it has been roughly two years later. Sounds like to me your just jumping on the band wagon. Im not saying what he did was wrong. But if you stayed quiet this long, whats the difference from two years ago to now? If you truley wanted to bring this issue up on the BOI, you should have done so then...Which i do believe you still could.

I too would like to see vet reports.

However, the highlighted part is particularly troubling to me. Why would you discourage someone from posting their experiences with a seller. Who cares that it too so long for him to come forward. It is posts like this that make people afraid to post on the BOI. Sure, he should also post evidence and be held to the same standard as others. But to question a person for mentioning a deal that was two years ago because they did not post it immediately is simply ridiculous in my opinion. Also, him mentioning his transaction in this thread IS bringing it to the BOI. It is generally frowned upon to make multiple BOI threads about the same seller/buyer.

Now back to the matter at hand. Please post vet reports as evidence of the sick snakes. All people want is the evidence that the snakes were in fact sick. Otherwise it is a he said she said situation (without him saying much that is).

 

[apreske]

Again I am going to post the vet papers on here as soon as I get them. I'm picking up the het albino sometime today from the vet and that's when we are supposedly getting the paperwork. She is very weak and we have been unsuccessful with force feeding her (which is what the vet suggested). Our vet is going to get some fluids into her system this morning and hopefully that will kick start her recovery.

 

[Bill T]

People tend to be apprehensive with calling out bigger breeders, but as you can tell by his posts, the monetary loss did not bother him a great deal and that is likely why he did not bother. It is not something I agree with, but in the end, he did provide e-mails and a picture.

Regardless ... I still want to see proof of the animals getting vet. care and I want to see photos of the animals as well, but just because Mark has a lot of great transactions does not mean he cannot have bad ones. In this world, the amount of good transactions are irrelevant when it comes to how you deal with a bad one.

Mark has been informed of this thread and does not appear to have any interest in coming to respond to it. That is speaking a bit more than I think people realize, but it does not negate the desire for hardcore proof.

 

[apreske]

I will also post pictures of the swelling on the het albinos face and the hole where the abscess was by her tail.

 

[Taking Up Serpents]

TOS doesm't mean squat if the health of the animal is NOT disclosed honestly.
Only a SHADY individual sells sick (near death) aniamls.

I mention TOS because if something sounds fishy or like they could cover their tails on bad sales then anyone can determine if they still want to do business. I agree, it does not excuse selling a sick snake. But if the TOS mention it in a way that voids refunds it can be a red flag to some.

I agree with ShadowAceD's whole last post. It only takes 1-"oh crap" to ruin 100-"attaboys" and good praises. Especially in this industry.

 

[mxracer4life]

I am also curious of this vet bill. In my opinion, even emails aren't 100% proof of a bad deal when trying to prove someone right or wrong, even in some cases, the wording can be changed etc, especially if the other party never chimes in. I have had great service from Mark. As far as Alberto's situation with him, I would definately be a little aggravated if Mark sent me something like that.

 

[Iloverhacs]

Kudos to the changing wording in emails comment. All that has been proved to mark is a self diagnosed infection, which means nothing.

 

[boamaster]

hey guys its mark
i'm only going to respond to this once
i'm not going to get into a posting war
just need my side heard as well
i was away for the the last 4 days at a show
i talked to him and explained all the animals condition
before i shipped them
1 jungle het albino
i said was off feed and thin so i sold it for 25cents on dollar
which he choose to buy .and work with --100.00
2 the hypo had no signs or symptoms before i shipped it and ate great
no smearing on cages no mites so on
3. the large het albino i explained to him that it had recently gotten a swollen scent gland
which i called a vet and discussed that issue with said thats what he thought it was ,so i passed that info on -before the sale
he then bought animals -- i shipped -packed properly next day air
he did call concerned about the jungle het albino's weight and i reminded him of our conversation
he said ok
then he called back sometime later in about a week and said he didnt like the het albino
and i examined his concerns and we discussed it away
then he calls back wanting some compensation
and saying the hypo is now sick? def wasnt when i sent it ?
so i offered to replace animals with some others to make up for it
he agreed to the deal .
then next day calls back angry and demanding a full refund and threatens about posting stuff
calling me a liar and purposely sending sick animals out which i did not do.

i've been around for years and never have tooken advantage of anyone,
as here so i offered some compensation to him until he threatened me and so on
so i told him do want ya want i'm done with this.

people know who i am and what i stand for.
i specifically told him the conditions before he bought them.
and when he wasnt happy ,i still tried to make up for it because i felt bad
if it had gotten sick on the way or there ? i cant say.
but the conditions of the animals were cleary described before sent they were sent out.
to avoid all this stuff were doing know.
none needs this .-but stuff happens when dealing w animals
and i try to do the right thing
thanks mark venhorst

 

[KelliH]

hey guys its mark
i'm only going to respond to this once
i'm not going to get into a posting war
just need my side heard as well
i was away for the the last 4 days at a show
i talked to him and explained all the animals condition
before i shipped them
1 jungle het albino
i said was off feed and thin so i sold it for 25cents on dollar
which he choose to buy .and work with --100.00
2 the hypo had no signs or symptoms before i shipped it and ate great
no smearing on cages no mites so on
3. the large het albino i explained to him that it had recently gotten a swollen scent gland
which i called a vet and discussed that issue with said thats what he thought it was ,so i passed that info on -before the sale
he then bought animals -- i shipped -packed properly next day air
he did call concerned about the jungle het albino's weight and i reminded him of our conversation
he said ok
then he called back sometime later in about a week and said he didnt like the het albino
and i examined his concerns and we discussed it away
then he calls back wanting some compensation
and saying the hypo is now sick? def wasnt when i sent it ?
so i offered to replace animals with some others to make up for it
he agreed to the deal .
then next day calls back angry and demanding a full refund and threatens about posting stuff
calling me a liar and purposely sending sick animals out which i did not do.

i've been around for years and never have tooken advantage of anyone,
as here so i offered some compensation to him until he threatened me and so on
so i told him do want ya want i'm done with this.

people know who i am and what i stand for.
i specifically told him the conditions before he bought them.
and when he wasnt happy ,i still tried to make up for it because i felt bad
if it had gotten sick on the way or there ? i cant say.
but the conditions of the animals were cleary described before sent they were sent out.
to avoid all this stuff were doing know.
none needs this .-but stuff happens when dealing w animals
and i try to do the right thing
thanks mark venhorst

Why on earth would you offer animals for sale that you know are sick They are in your care when they become sick, then instead of doing the right thing and getting vet care for your animals, you pawn them off on someone else at a "discounted" price. That sucks. In my opinion you are really no better than those people on craigslist that post ads in the pet section trying to pawn off their sick dogs. You know the ones that are worded kind of like this :
"Have to find a home for my English Bulldog today! He does have heartworm which is why I am offering him at a REDUCED REHOMING FEE of $500"
See any difference? I don't.