Bad Guy Boamaster (Mark Venhorst)

[weird_science04]

Jeremy, I still like Mark even after this thread. Mark is a knowledgeable person and someone I enjoy seeing at the shows. He has a lot of nice animals and has very good craftsmanship.

Star

 

[ShadowAceD]

My issue with this whole deal is the fact there really is no proof of anything. I am getting tired of seeing all of these "Bad guy" threads started and all they end up being is a he sad she said scenario. There are no pictures to prove the animals arrived in this condition, there are no vet records indicating the OP took these animals in when she received them. At this point the emails and vet bills being posted only proves that she had the animals in her care long enough a problem could have started. The only real proof of anything here is they did in fact purchase 3 boas from Mark AKA Boamaster. Am I the only one that feels this way?

To an extent, Jeremy, but do not forget Mark admitted to selling animals with health probelms. So, there is some validity behind the thread, but, since the OP agreed to it ... that kind of negates most of it.

 

[mxracer4life]

Please respond to this thread and tell me what you think should have happened. I hope we are not in the wrong for wanting our money back. I will post the emails and vet papers another day.

Thanks,

Allison Preske, Joseph Lagenour

You should have checked health of snakes immediately upon arrival, if you were not happy at that point you should have contacted Mark immediately. I always take pictures of snakes as I am opening any package, some even have started video taping the package opening. Once package was opened, you should have documented (pictures, notes etc) everything known about snakes, all health issues Mark mentioned and any new issues you found yourself. If he didn't respond from that point, I would have attempted to contact him from a different number or email, to confirm if he was even available for contact at that point. After all attempts failed to receive contact or ANY resolution, I would have began getting all your proof ready to post on here. This will be a hard lesson to learn.

 

[Casey Hulse]

Nobody should sell sick or "unhealthy" animals for any price! There is NO better way to spread pathogens and disease.
With the "bugs" going around in the Boid world, I would be surprised if Mark ever sells any animals to a Fauna member again.

 

[Firebill]

You should have checked health of snakes immediately upon arrival, if you were not happy at that point you should have contacted Mark immediately. I always take pictures of snakes as I am opening any package, some even have started video taping the package opening. Once package was opened, you should have documented (pictures, notes etc) everything known about snakes, all health issues Mark mentioned and any new issues you found yourself. If he didn't respond from that point, I would have attempted to contact him from a different number or email, to confirm if he was even available for contact at that point. After all attempts failed to receive contact or ANY resolution, I would have began getting all your proof ready to post on here. This will be a hard lesson to learn.

Jeremy, I believe they stated they did contact him within 24 hours via email, and the vet reports are back on page 9. Bottom line these snakes shouldn't have been sold!

 

[apreske]

We have had the snakes for 3 and a half weeks. It is correct that the hypo did not have signs of being ill when we recieved her. A snake does not get mouth rot and pneumonia in three weeks though. This thread wasn't so I could get my money back because I am not getting it back he has already said that. I put it on here because he sold me three sick snakes and 2 of them died. I just want people to know that he will sell sick snakes. I did not take pictures of the snakes when they arrived. I didn't even know I was supposed to honestly. That was my fault. All I have is a picture of the dead hypo (which doesn't really prove anything) and pictures of the het albino's swollen mouth and abscess. I have vet papers and bills so that should prove everything I've said is true. I'm not crying about not getting my money back...it sucks but I'm over it. I'm a grown up, I've moved on. Obviously I'm not the only one that has gotten sick snakes from him and that again should be enough proof. I'll post pictures later since that is what you want.

 

[apreske]

Also I want to point out that when we contacted Mark and he didn't give a refund for the jungle and the het albino (within 24 hours which fits with his TOS) we agreed with Mark that buying the jungle in that state was a bad idea. He still should have taken the snakes back atleast. I also want to say that we have over 30 snakes and none of them have ever been sick. We clean there cages every other day and they have the adequate heat that they need. I don't see how we could have made the snakes sick enough to die within 3 weeks. I have definitely learned from this experience. I will always take pictures when I first get snakes out of the box. I usually buy snakes from reptile shows, this was my second time buying snakes online and I didn't know about all of this. We have had snakes for over 2 years now with no problems. It was not our fault that they got sick. And again it takes more than 3 and half weeks for a snake to become septic or for a snake to get pnuemonia and mouth rot. We took the snakes to the vet when we knew there was a problem that we couldn't fix ourselves. There is a date on the papers when we called to make an appointment for them both.

 

[hhmoore]

The price included shipping, which was around $160 before the addition of the jungle. Whether anybody feels it was "discounted" or "low" is irrelevant.


Now, I said fairly early in this thread that by purchasing animals with known problems, the OP reduced her complaint margin. She got sick animals? Yes, that's what she purchased. They died?? That sucks, but it happens when one buys sick animals. Don't want the risk? Skip the scratch and dent discount rack, and go for the good stuff.

The OP made immediate contact with Mark (well, her boyfriend did), and was told that they were advised of the problems before purchase (in other words, you got what you paid for, so tough )....sounds like a harsh response, but it is probably similar to what I would have said under the circumstances.
However, the OP did not bother with veterinary care until about a month later. Would it have made a difference if she had done so immediately? Who knows . If there were no symptoms, the hypo might have been given a clean bill of health....in which case, the subsequent problems would have been laid on the OP's shoulders. On the other hand, if the vet caught the problems, and treatment was started before things worsened to the extent they did, the outcome could have been very different.

I haven't felt like playing investigator, so I've left many questions unasked...and I don't believe anybody else asked them, either. This leads me to believe that it is either assumed that proper care, including separate housing, was provided; or it is accepted that all the health issues came with the snakes from Mark. I see problems from both sides in this transaction...and nothing that has been posted over the 3 pages of this thread has swayed me from that.

Casey - I understand the sentiment...but you can't really believe it, lol.

 

[hhmoore]

Allison - I do hope that you had the good sense to quarantine these snakes...

 

[ShadowAceD]

The price included shipping, which was around $160 before the addition of the jungle. Whether anybody feels it was "discounted" or "low" is irrelevant.


Now, I said fairly early in this thread that by purchasing animals with known problems, the OP reduced her complaint margin. She got sick animals? Yes, that's what she purchased. They died?? That sucks, but it happens when one buys sick animals. Don't want the risk? Skip the scratch and dent discount rack, and go for the good stuff.

The OP made immediate contact with Mark (well, her boyfriend did), and was told that they were advised of the problems before purchase (in other words, you got what you paid for, so tough )....sounds like a harsh response, but it is probably similar to what I would have said under the circumstances.
However, the OP did not bother with veterinary care until about a month later. Would it have made a difference if she had done so immediately? Who knows . If there were no symptoms, the hypo might have been given a clean bill of health....in which case, the subsequent problems would have been laid on the OP's shoulders. On the other hand, if the vet caught the problems, and treatment was started before things worsened to the extent they did, the outcome could have been very different.

I haven't felt like playing investigator, so I've left many questions unasked...and I don't believe anybody else asked them, either. This leads me to believe that it is either assumed that proper care, including separate housing, was provided; or it is accepted that all the health issues came with the snakes from Mark. I see problems from both sides in this transaction...and nothing that has been posted over the 3 pages of this thread has swayed me from that.

Casey - I understand the sentiment...but you can't really believe it, lol.

 

[apreske]

Yes! They were kept seperate from the rest of my collection from the beginning. I do that with every new snake that I get. I didn't wait a month to get them treated. It was more like 2 weeks. As soon as I saw swelling in the mouth on the het albino and mucus or fluid coming out of the hypos mouth I made an appointment for them that day. I take care of my snakes. I couldn't live with myself if I didn't take care of these snakes properly. As soon as I knew there were real problems, I took them to the vet. I didn't think that the het albinos condition was serious when I bought her. I just thought it was a swollen scent gland that could be fixed fairly easily. I was trying to treat it myself before I resorted to going to the vet. Everybody that has ever had a snake with a problem knows that the vet is expensive and if there is another way to take care of the problem and have the same results then you will take care of it yourself. I don't think I was in the wrong for doing that. I thought I could fix the problem myself so why pay a ton of money for the same results? The swollen scent gland didn't go away and her mouth got swollen, I made an appointment right away. I knew that was a serious problem that I could not fix.

 

[hhmoore]

I didn't wait a month to get them treated. It was more like 2 weeks.

You received the snakes on May 19th, 2011 (per your own statement)....you took them to the vet on June 16th, 2011 (per the posted receipts). Looks like almost a month to me

 

[apreske]

I was treating the het albino as soon as I got her. The jungle died within a few days of recieving her and the hypo didn't show any signs of illness until last week. The reason for this post was to prove that he sold me sick snakes. I'm pretty sure I've proved my point. Instead I'm being put on the chopping block because I didn't take them to the vet soon enough? I was doing everything I could for these snakes. Does anyone really think that I would put my name on this if I didn't think I did the best for these animals? That doesn't even make sense. Plus I just spent $700+ on these snakes I needed to make more money before we could even go to the vet and I think that's understandable.

 

[Wraith]

The price included shipping, which was around $160 before the addition of the jungle. Whether anybody feels it was "discounted" or "low" is irrelevant.


Now, I said fairly early in this thread that by purchasing animals with known problems, the OP reduced her complaint margin. She got sick animals? Yes, that's what she purchased. They died?? That sucks, but it happens when one buys sick animals. Don't want the risk? Skip the scratch and dent discount rack, and go for the good stuff.

The OP made immediate contact with Mark (well, her boyfriend did), and was told that they were advised of the problems before purchase (in other words, you got what you paid for, so tough )....sounds like a harsh response, but it is probably similar to what I would have said under the circumstances.

This I agree with. They took a gamble buying the animals knowing that they were not up to snuff health wise. They unfortunately lost that card game.
If they weren't prepared to deal with the risk involved they should have passed on the purchase. All in all, suck up the loss and consider it harsh lesson learned. Maybe they won't make the same mistake in the future.

 

[Iloverhacs]

We have had the snakes for 3 and a half weeks. It is correct that the hypo did not have signs of being ill when we recieved her. A snake does not get mouth rot and pneumonia in three weeks though. /QUOTE]

Bs. If they are kept unclean or crowed, yes they can. Also them not eating can be your fault. You didn't ever mention to mark how you are keeping them, or what you are feeding them. Improper setups and husbandry and crowding can cause diseases, not feeding, parasites and so on.

 

[bullies&balls]

We have had the snakes for 3 and a half weeks. It is correct that the hypo did not have signs of being ill when we recieved her. A snake does not get mouth rot and pneumonia in three weeks though. /QUOTE]

Bs. If they are kept unclean or crowed, yes they can. Also them not eating can be your fault. You didn't ever mention to mark how you are keeping them, or what you are feeding them. Improper setups and husbandry and crowding can cause diseases, not feeding, parasites and so on.

You've on the OP since the start. Plain and simple, not feeding or even giving these animals water for 3 weeks would NOT kill them, unless they were in HORRIBLE shape, NOT bad, HORRIBLE !!!!!

Also Mark's self dr skills were way off. Mark told them swollen gland WRONG, Jungle dead in how many days ?? Only way you can kill a snake in 2-3 days is to cook it, uless you stick in the snow or freezer.

 

[apreske]

Like I said before, we clean the snakes cages every other day. They are extremely clean cages. We feed every snake once a week. We also give them the appropriate heat that they need. I do know that Mark kept them at like 80 or so degrees. I thought that was too cold. We keep ours around 90 on the hot side of there cages. I did tell Mark how we were keeping them but again that was in a phone conversation not an email. I know they didn't get sick from us. If they did then all of our snakes would be sick and they are perfectly healthy.

 

[deborahbroadus]

You've on the OP since the start. Plain and simple, not feeding or even giving these animals water for 3 weeks would NOT kill them, unless they were in HORRIBLE shape, NOT bad, HORRIBLE !!!!!

Also Mark's self dr skills were way off. Mark told them swollen gland WRONG, Jungle dead in how many days ?? Only way you can kill a snake in 2-3 days is to cook it, uless you stick in the snow or freezer.

I agree with you. From what I read, it appears that Mark miminalized the animal's illness and sold an extremely sick snake. The only thing the OP is guilty of is being greedy wanting something cheap and hoping they could handle the illness of a snake who's illness had been MINIMALIZED.

 

[hhmoore]

I was treating the het albino as soon as I got her. The jungle died within a few days of recieving her and the hypo didn't show any signs of illness until last week. The reason for this post was to prove that he sold me sick snakes. I'm pretty sure I've proved my point. Instead I'm being put on the chopping block because I didn't take them to the vet soon enough? I was doing everything I could for these snakes. Does anyone really think that I would put my name on this if I didn't think I did the best for these animals? That doesn't even make sense. Plus I just spent $700+ on these snakes I needed to make more money before we could even go to the vet and I think that's understandable.

I've never denied that you were sent sick animals...but purchasing animals with KNOWN health problems brings with it a share of responsibility; so, yes, you are also on the blocks. Can't afford the vet trip? Don't buy snakes with known problems.
You were treating the het albino as soon as you got her....but missing the big picture. Sure, she had a swollen gland; but that wasn't all that was wrong with her. Maybe you believed that. Heck, Maybe Mark believed that. Most of us are guilty of doing various levels of self treatment our animals....and, when we are wrong, we bear the responsibility for the outcome. This is a simple point - you dropped the ball on medical treatment. Did you fully examine the hypo? I ask because snakes don't develop stomatitis and enough mucous to make them gape overnight. You didn't notice the symptoms until they were pretty advanced.

I've never purchased from Mark. I have said from the start that those snakes shouldn't have been shipped, so I'm certainly not "on his side"; but, indications are that you don't have the experience/knowledge to be purchasing and treating snakes that are known not to be in good health. Rather than argue that point, accept it and learn from it. Sucks that you lost your money, but that is a risk when gambling. I hope the hypo pulls through, so it isn't a total loss for you.

 

[mxracer4life]

I hope the hypo pulls through, so it isn't a total loss for you.

I thought the hypo died? I swear I seen a post that stated 2 of 3 snakes died, with the het albino being the one that made it. Am I missing something?