Bad Guy Boamaster (Mark Venhorst)

[xxMKxx]

I think the most I've learned reading this thread is never to post a bad review about a well known breeder.
The OP did twice as much exlaining and proving than any normal person would do.
Were they a little wrong, maybe. But even if they were completely wrong, has anyone heard of the customer comes first? I think her complaints are valid but even if someone prooved to me that she's completely wrong, I don't care. She's not in a business of buying reptiles like mark is selling them. He advertises, he wants business, this IS his business.
Half these posters here defend him even after reading his reply that seemed like a 15 year Old reply vs her trying to prove she was wronged, over and over and over again.

Buy anything anywhere at any business and return it. See what happens. A polite "would you like that put back on your card?"
Even if for some reason half you posters side with mark in this how can he as a business owner every once in a while not ake a hit to make a customer happy?
And IMO this example is at best, marginally his fault.

Note to self : never post a bad experience on this site

 

[Paige n' James]

"Sorry, but this was already discussed and if you think a HEALTHY animal will die in that amount of time, you are sadly mistaken. Even an animal with the beginnings of an illness would be hard pressed to pass in that amount of time.

These animals were NOT a LITTLE sick, but were DEATHLY ILL when shipped out !! "

I agree with Bullies and Balls, these snakes were at deaths door to decline so quickly.

I still don't know why people keep mentioning the "good deal" that you never got.

What The Freak - Greedy Buyer - how has that ever been proven. Not only that what a thing to say to someone that has LOST 3 snakes. Disgusting!!

 

[deborahbroadus]

"Sorry, but this was already discussed and if you think a HEALTHY animal will die in that amount of time, you are sadly mistaken. Even an animal with the beginnings of an illness would be hard pressed to pass in that amount of time.

These animals were NOT a LITTLE sick, but were DEATHLY ILL when shipped out !! "

I agree with Bullies and Balls, these snakes were at deaths door to decline so quickly.

I still don't know why people keep mentioning the "good deal" that you never got.

What The Freak - Greedy Buyer - how has that ever been proven. Not only that what a thing to say to someone that has LOST 3 snakes. Disgusting!!

If someone (breeder) offers ME a cheap SICK snake and I jump on it..I am GREEDY. I am greedy because I chose to buy a cheap deal regardless of the possible outcomes than put my money on a MORE SURE THING. I am certainy sorry that she LOST the snakes, but why would she be buying the sick snakes in the first place??

Your defense of her is actually NO DEFENSE. Mark is wrong, this is not up for debate (IMO) but she also has to bear the brunt of her wrong decision to purchase a sick snake. Regardless that Mark downplayed the seriousness of the illness, she did make the decision to purchase.

 

[Payara]

I think the most I've learned reading this thread is never to post a bad review about a well known breeder.
The OP did twice as much exlaining and proving than any normal person would do.

If you read the thread at its entirety you will see that mos people find fault with Mark and his business ethics. Most people blame him for selling sick snakes to the OP even through he disclosed the information. Both parties are to blame here. Mark for selling ill animals and Op for actually buying them.

Half these posters here defend him even after reading his reply that seemed like a 15 year Old reply vs her trying to prove she was wronged, over and over and over again.

Once again read the thread. Some are just looking for proof and evidence. Creating a BOI thread is not not a light situation. You are calling a person out, his personality, and maybe even his livelihood. Therefore people just want proof what they are saying is accurate and truthful.

Buy anything anywhere at any business and return it. See what happens. A polite "would you like that put back on your card?"
Buying an animal is not like buying groceries at WalMart.

Even if for some reason half you posters side with mark in this how can he as a business owner every once in a while not ake a hit to make a customer happy?
And IMO this example is at best, marginally his fault.

It's kind of hard to force Mark to do what other want. In the end he will try do what he thinks is right be it right or wrong. Like others here you have the right to your opinions but it's not always black and white.

Note to self : never post a bad experience on this site

“The greatest ignorance is to reject something you know nothing about”

 

[Payara]

Your defense of her is actually NO DEFENSE. Mark is wrong, this is not up for debate (IMO) but she also has to bear the brunt of her wrong decision to purchase a sick snake. Regardless that Mark downplayed the seriousness of the illness, she did make the decision to purchase.

+1 Well said

 

[joe113]

I think the most I've learned reading this thread is never to post a bad review about a well known breeder.
The OP did twice as much exlaining and proving than any normal person would do.
Were they a little wrong, maybe. But even if they were completely wrong, has anyone heard of the customer comes first? I think her complaints are valid but even if someone prooved to me that she's completely wrong, I don't care. She's not in a business of buying reptiles like mark is selling them. He advertises, he wants business, this IS his business.
Half these posters here defend him even after reading his reply that seemed like a 15 year Old reply vs her trying to prove she was wronged, over and over and over again.

Buy anything anywhere at any business and return it. See what happens. A polite "would you like that put back on your card?"
Even if for some reason half you posters side with mark in this how can he as a business owner every once in a while not ake a hit to make a customer happy?
And IMO this example is at best, marginally his fault.

Note to self : never post a bad experience on this site

Like all forums on the internet this one has it's circle of regulars who spend a little too much time here for their health's sake. I found out quickly it's not worth posting here. I just read some of these flame wars when I'm in the mood to get a good laugh, other than that I'm not posting.

 

[AbsoluteApril]

let's keep this on topic.

if you want to discuss or question the usefulness of the BOI please use the feedback forum

 

[Paige n' James]

I am not trying to defend Allison, (I don't feel a defense is necessary) because those snakes were at deaths door and should never have been shipped.

She spent $700 on snakes that died quickly. Not sure why the OP is getting attacked at all. In my book $700 is not that great a deal for those specific snakes. You add the vet bills and she got royally screwed.

Where the heck do you get "greedy"? I mean a few hundred might be greedy but $700 was not a good deal anyways. IMO

 

[akonitony]

It still all boils down to the integrity (or lack thereof) of the seller. A good seller/breeder/flipper will say to themselves: "This animal can be shipped because it is healthy, and this one needs to stay until it either gets better or succombs to the illness for which EVERYTHING WITHIN REASON is being done to help it". Period.
One of the best statements my boss of old (like back in the early 90s) said to me was: Anyone can look at a dead animal and say 'it's dead', but a good keeper can look at a sick animal and say 'it doesn't look right', and hopefully treat it until it is back in good health.
Mark should have told these people they could put a deposit down on these animals, and if they recovered fully, he'd finish the deal or give them back the deposit if the animal(s) died. That is the furthest he should have gone with the sale of a sick animal. Any farther is a good diagnosis for 'greedy seller'.
I just closed a deal with one, if not the best, breeders of Drymarchons in the world. He told me over and over he will not ship hatchlings until they are well-established at about 2 months old, have shed at least twice, and are doing well (not that I wanted anything less). Now that's the kind of person we need doing this stuff!

 

[deborahbroadus]

I am not trying to defend Allison, (I don't feel a defense is necessary) because those snakes were at deaths door and should never have been shipped.

She spent $700 on snakes that died quickly. Not sure why the OP is getting attacked at all. In my book $700 is not that great a deal for those specific snakes. You add the vet bills and she got royally screwed.

Where the heck do you get "greedy"? I mean a few hundred might be greedy but $700 was not a good deal anyways. IMO

Greedy:greed·y (grd)
adj. greed·i·er, greed·i·est
1. Excessively desirous of acquiring or possessing, especially wishing to possess more than what one needs or deserves.2. Wanting to eat or drink more than one can reasonably consume; gluttonous.
3. Extremely eager or desirous: greedy for the opportunity to prove their ability.

What usually is the goal of purchasing a breeder/yearling sized animal rather than starting with a hatchling? IMO a desire to see a quick ROI (return on investment).

Could be that I am using the wrong word, feel free to insert the word that you feel is most fitting to the incident....so that we don't have to be caught up on a word.

 

[akonitony]

Like all forums on the internet this one has it's circle of regulars who spend a little too much time here for their health's sake. I found out quickly it's not worth posting here. I just read some of these flame wars when I'm in the mood to get a good laugh, other than that I'm not posting.

Now is this a troll?

 

[apreske]

I was and am excited about this coming breeding season. I wanted to get some healthy breeders so I could get more litters than last year. Was I greedy? Maybe I was in a way. I've gotten great breeder snakes from a few people for a great price. Maybe nieve would be the best word. I don't blame deborahbroadus for saying that. I respect everybody's opinions.

 

[deborahbroadus]

I was and am excited about this coming breeding season. I wanted to get some healthy breeders so I could get more litters than last year. Was I greedy? Maybe I was in a way. I've gotten great breeder snakes from a few people for a great price. Maybe nieve would be the best word. I don't blame deborahbroadus for saying that. I respect everybody's opinions.

Thank you.

I have already stated that I believe that Mark is wrong. Nothing has changed that opinion. However, I also recognize that our troubles don't spring out of the ground, sometimes our own desires bring those troubles to us.

This opinion of our own actions does not negate the responsiblity of a breeder to be totally honest and to make sure that only healthy animals are sold.

 

[apreske]

Here is the paypal receipt for the money I sent Mark.

 

[Buddytokerman]

Thanks to Fauna

I have followed this thread since the beginning. I don't post much, but read quite a bit on this site. Here is my two cents, and what this means to ME, a customer from vendors on this site (and you, if you buy anything from sellers on this site). Did the OP make a mistake by purchasing these snakes? IRRELEVANT. Is she at fault? IRRELEVANT. Is Mark at fault? IRRELEVANT. Should he reimburse her? I DON'T CARE. Should we burn him at the stake? I DON'T CARE.
Here is what I know, and what I'm doing about it. A seller knowingly sold someone sick snakes. Whether the symptoms were downplayed, or just not known is also IRRELEVANT. I will never buy anything from Mark, period. (The sad thing is, I have considered buying from him in the past) This thread has alerted me, and countless others, to a potential headache of a transaction. The BOI did exactly what it was supposed to do. Thank you Fauna for alerting me to a potentially sleazy seller, and a potentially ignorant buyer.

 

[spoonersgirl]

IMO, I agree she received a rotten deal & I am sorry for her loss. I do feel she was a bit naive in her purchase, but again, she wasn't clearly informed on the health of ALL the animals she was purchasing. (Saying ONE snake was a bit underweight, but eating & ONE snake had a swollen scent gland doesn't justify the *deaths* of THREE snakes) Additionally she was buying from a *well known reputable breeder*, that most people, even on here, would not question. Should she have, yes. Never assume, even with *reputable* people... all people make mistakes, on purpose and on accident, doesn't matter, it's a fact of life.

IMO, she has provided the sufficient proof & I wonder why this doesn't satisfy everyone? All these demands for pictures of her cages , etc... is over kill; she proved her side already, enough. (Vet bills, PayPal receipt, emails) Why is she solely singled out to provide such additional proof & not the buyer?? You want pictures of her setup, then you should also want it from the seller, fair is fair. For that matter, I feel the animals living conditions, before the purchase, is more important. (because more time was spent there)

It's getting ridiculous that sellers or buyers are needing to video and/or take pictures of everything , from packing/unpacking a box, cages, etc & apparently record calls .....to keep from getting a rotten deal and/or to satisfy the few people that are being obstinate.

Normal *legitimate* proof is perfectly acceptable & she has provided that, IMHO.

Questioning her is one thing, but it does sound as if certain people will never be satisfied no matter what she provides in return.

Sending out sick animals, bad sellers, bad buyers, etc are bad for this hobby & can be quite cumbersome to all. This forum DOES help prevent & sometimes solve some of that & people do NOT need to be discouraged from posting, period.

 

[mxracer4life]

Allison, have you tried calling Mark and talking to him yourself? I know you stated that he won't answer an email, but at this point a phone call would probably be best anyways.

I have received snakes before and found myseld unhappy, I then called the seller upset and made the situation worse. After a few days, we had both cooled down and we ended up talking it over and coming to an agreement. It's worth a try. I just don't see Mark walking away and not wanting to do anything just because.

 

[apreske]

I can try to call him again but I don't think it will fix anything. He was pretty firm in that last email. He doesn't want to give us a refund of any kind. If that's what everyone thinks I should do then I will give him a call.

 

[mxracer4life]

I can try to call him again but I don't think it will fix anything. He was pretty firm in that last email. He doesn't want to give us a refund of any kind. If that's what everyone thinks I should do then I will give him a call.

You have to take what you can get. You can't just demand a refund. Just ask him to work with you. He is probably only going to be willing to give you replacements. I know you had trouble with the last snakes, but if you give him the benefit of the doubt you may end up ok. Just stay calm, try to understand his side of it, and go from there.

 

[scaledverts]

Here is the paypal receipt for the money I sent Mark.

I see from this image that you used a credit card through paypal! GREAT move! File a claim with your credit card company that the snakes were not delivered as advertised. It would put some pressure on him to do the right thing. And if he doesn't you still have a chance at getting your money back. Make sure you have all the evidence vet bills etc and any communication between the two of you. Organize this all into a step by step (with numbers etc) guide through your transaction to make sure the credit card company can follow your transaction logically. I say go strait to this because a paypal dispute will not side with you because the snakes were delivered and that's all they care about usually.