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    Yeah, I know. They are a pain in the butt. But they pay the bills to keep my server running. Just a fact of life, I am afraid.

    Want to get rid of them? Simple. Just become a Contributor level member or above and they will be gone. -> Please click HERE."

    Is that too much for me to ask of you to keep this site running? Well, sorry about that. I too wish I could get everything for free. But alas.....

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    Google Adsense ad revenue for December, 2025 was just $30 over the cost of the lease for the server running this site. So, in effect, the money providing the incentive for me to continue running this site is coming SOLELY from the paid memberships and sponsorships here. Which honestly ain't much....

Boaphile Plastics

"...Normally I would not have even posted anything but I just dont understand how I'm willing to pay somebody almost a thousand dollars and they just blow me off.  Just had to get that off my chest haha. "

Original complaint was that he was a difficult to get a hold of and hadn't been a "bad guy" per se, but just didn't appear concerned with making a sale.

The owner of the company was backed up by a few satisfied customers that confirmed he was having difficulty matching demand due to employee issues but that the high quality products were worth dealing with the issues (they did not state that the original complaint was in error just giving their feedback on a quality product).

The owner came on and stated that he was having issues and was working to resolve those issues (his son coming in to assist running the business). < NOTE TO CUSTOMER: You can decide at this point to choose him as a vendor or not. No harm. No foul. On either site>

The original poster then had to make a decision on whether they weeded through the situation as is or found another vendor. While I am sure this vendor produces high quality cages there are other cage companies out there that provide adequate housing for a snake even (I prefer lizards  <img src="http://www.faunaclassifieds.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/tounge.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':p'>  ).

By taking this to an obscene level the orignial poster has placed himself in the class of undesirable customer. This whole thread was blown out of proportion by the original poster (which was quickly jumped on by the members of this BOI who want to see fairness above all else) and left the realm of  credibility.

I personally would love to have "didn't return my phone calls" as the only complaint about vendors while doing business. As xpensivegeckos has plenty of time to make a "major" issue out of a minor one this must be the case with him. Kudos.

I am not suprised that your pricing is higher than other peoples. This is a perogative of a business person in America. It's called PITA tax.
 
hey colleen,
since i wasn't there and didn't see whose story is right and whose is wrong (if there is even a right version AND whether it matters or not), i can't really comment on the facts.  i can say that jeff has an excellent reputation and you don't get one of those by screwing people over.  i also see that you and your boyfriend are here vehemently defending your stance, something that people who know they aren't wrong will do.  so i guess all i can say is that hopefully this misunderstanding can be cleared up soon enough and everyone can be happy or at least not PO'd anymore.
maybe you order the cages, maybe you don't.  i'd like to know that you (or your boyfriend) either get in contact with jeff or jeff gets in touch with you and the barriers of communication are broken down and everyone forgives and forgets.  at that point, jeff can show you how he earned his good reputation and you can receive some of the most affordably priced, well constructed/high quality cages in the business.
best of luck to all involved... i'm off to bed!
 
Yeah, pricey but custom, so worth it.  Is somebody getting the message that price was a problem?  Obviously the value's there... that's why we were trying to order.  The problem started when rather than admit we did everything we could under the particular circumstance, Jeff tried to place the burden on Chris like he was some kind of idiot who just didn't know the right way to order, and in that respect started BEGGING for the details.  It all sounded so understandable when Jeff was implying that we just didn't TRY hard enough... Then basically said we were too stupid to know if we dialed the right number, THEN said either we dialed the wrong number or were lying.  Ummm... again, where was the simple apology for bad service again?  I just looked through 3 posts from Jeff and in each I see the ever growing, and might I say, time-consuming construction of lists of what we could have done to accomodate him.  Just as companies don't need to sell to certain people, customers similarly have the right to decide not to buy.  If they are told the truth, they can make an appropriate decision.  If they are strung along, that makes it a little difficult, doesn't it?

I see Jeff admits now he doesn't have the ability to fill orders at this time.  That's totally reasonable.  THAT'S HONEST.  When he asks WHY WOULDN'T I CALL BACK ON AN ORDER? it seems an obvious contradiction to I CAN'T HANDLE ANY MORE ORDERS.  The first we ever heard of an employee problem was HERE... not at the necessary time, when we were arranging the purchase.

Someone asked, "Would we rather have had him take our money then not deliver for 6 months..."  Ok... are these our two choices now... either get blown off or get a ridiculous delivery schedule.  How about the idea of simply TELLING US he can't do the order.  Listen everybody, we are only one order.  No biggie to anyone, obviously.  Do you honestly think there AREN'T other people who are getting the run around?  JUST TELL THE TRUTH.  "YEAH, YOU JUST HAPPENED TO CATCH ME EATING LUNCH... YEAH HERE'S THE PRICE BUT I JUST CAN'T HANDLE THE ORDER FOR A WHILE, CHRIS... CAN YOU GUYS WAIT?"  How hard is that?

When Chris spoke to Jeff he said a rush order the following day was fine.  Further, rather than just using VISA for some reason I don't understand we needed to overnight a Cashiers Check or do a Quick Collect or something... so Chris goes and cashes a check the day he spoke to Jeff, simply calls back the next day for the exact number including shipping to give him and POOF... all of a sudden he's gone again.  Just like that.  Didn't say on the machine anything about, "Careful, this is a useless method of communication... don't bother leaving a message here... please email me... I've had a disaster... sorry if this inconveniences you"... COMMON COURTESY gets common courtesy.  

Problem customer?  Let's see... we went through this 6 months ago, bought all this stuff you guys are saying now directly from Jeff 6 MONTHS AGO, tried again...  called multiple times... still were willing to "be patient" until it became ridiculous and we were only responded to after a POST HERE.  We must be really unreasonable customers to be asking for more consideration than that.  What we are not is ignorant consumers and we know when we're getting really just rude treatment, and if someone wants to proudly handle things like this, he can't honestly be surprised when somebody gets aggravated.  

OPPORTUNITY!  HOLE IN THE MARKET!  

-Colleen Pace
 
Jonathan - Sorry, didn't mean to ignore your post.  It came on while I was writing.  Correct, our vehement defense is based in simple truth, and partially because Chris started this because he was doing something nice for me, I particularly take issue with him getting crap for it after the AMAZING amount of patience he did show.  Jeff should have THANKED him for trying to call so many times and THANKED him for not being more aggravated than he was under the circumstances.  I would have left much LESS patient messages after the first message than Chris did and I would have given up and posted much sooner than Chris.  A liar Chris is NOT.  I specifically had him handle this because I'd had enough of Jeff last time and just HOPED he was walking his talk now.  This may just be coincidence, but there's nothing like personal experience with a company to tell you what they think of their customers PRESENT DAY, good or bad.  Oh... Jonathan... believe me... don't worry about us getting a cage now... I'm seriously going to look into building them.  I'm BETTING that I could have production up and runnig in 12 weeks and keep it there.  Lets see.  Besides, we all want to take the pressure off Jeff, right?

OPPORTUNITY!!  HOLE IN THE MARKET!!

Thanks -Colleen Pace
 
"I'm BETTING that I could have production up and runnig in 12 weeks and keep it there."

That's the best thing you've said in two pages of rants. Now the hard part, turning words into actions.  <img src="http://www.faunaclassifieds.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/wow.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':0'>

Wish you the best of luck.
 
Actually I avoided calling Chris a liar leaving the option open giving him the benefit of the doubt that he had dialed the wrong number. However the claim that I said I would "Overnight" 2-422C cages with dividers and expandable ends to him the following day is laughable. I have never even had anyone who wanted STOCK products ask about overnight shipping. Never. Custom time consuming work such as described above will take 3-4 weeks and would cost $901 in total. This is the giveaway that this is a fabricated complaint from someone that now threatens to become a competitor. It all seem clearer now doesn't it? I will now say it. If Chris told you this Chris is a liar.

Had I gotten the three messages from Chris I would have called him back and apologized for any delay. However I didn't get any messages from him. I have apologized many times to customers who have been patient as I am very busy. I am not afraid to apologize when I have been called on something that I have done wrong. However in this particular case I didn't get the calls therefore there is nothing to apologize for.

It is now obvious that your goal is to start the manufacture of plastic cages yourself. This is obviously why you have sought to come here and besmirch my good name by calling me a liar. Busy I am. Sometimes taking too long to get back to people? Yes. A liar afraid of apologizing when I'm wrong? No.

A possible side note:

I had been contacted via email by a fellow named Wayne. It is also possible that I spoke to him over the phone but I do not recall that. This fellow named Wayne wanted samples of my plastic. Both the plastic I used to build the cages from and the doors. Now this is an unusual request. I do get calls from people who are obviously picking my brain trying to figure out how exactly I build my cages. I am a little suspicious when certain questions get asked about the manufacture of the plastic etc that the person may not really be looking to buy cages from me but is looking for information so they can build these cages themselves. So coincidentally this Wayne is the only person to ever ask me to ship him samples of the plastic I use. He is also the ONLY person I remember ever to ask about a divided cage AND expandable cage pricing. Also coincidentally he asked about a pair of these cages and an corner connector. The price of just the two cages with dividers installed and expandable ends would be $901. Hhmmm Sounds suspicious doesn't it?

Below is a copy of the emails that went between this Wayne and myself. I have removed his email address and everything else saying exactly who he is and where he lives on the chance that he is a real person who really was looking for samples and may place an order some day. Other than that the emails are unedited and list below in their entirety from most recent to oldest. I will let the readers here decide if my correspondence with this one possible customer was satisfactory or not:



Aspen works great. I am in the process of changing everything over from Newspaper with kitty litter under it to Aspen shavings. I like the looks of it better and I think the snakes love it. They hunker down in it and it seem to really suit them nicely. Some of the Boas are burying themselves in it like sand Boas. Very cool and yes Aspen works great in my plastic cages. Looking forward to that order in May.

Thanks!

Jeff

-----Original Message-----
From: Wayne
Sent: Saturday, April 20, 2002 9:38 AM
To: Jeff Ronne / The Boaphile
Subject: RE: Answers to your questions:


Thank you for your assistance with all of this.  I plan on ordering the cage
in the beginning of May.  We are in the process of helping my sister-in-law
pay for her wedding and redoing some rooms in our house.  Once the rooms are
done, then I will have a great place to put Gemini's new house.

I have been using the aspen bedding since I got her but did not know if
possibly the newspaper worked better or was easier.

Once I get it all set up, I will send you some pics of it with her in it on
the stand I plan to build for it.  Perhaps you could use it on your website.

W

-----Original Message-----
From: Jeff Ronne / The Boaphile [mailto:[email protected]]
Sent: Friday, April 19, 2002 11:39 AM
To: Wayne
Subject: RE: Answers to your questions:


Glad to hear back from you!

I like how you have all my work done for me as far as the pricing is
concerned. Most people make me do it but you did a nice job yourself. That
sounds fine too by the way. I have not installed any locks in my cages yet
but have installed them in cabinets many times in the past. I just checked
pricing on the locks and figured I would charge $20 each to buy the locks
and install them. This is a total of $80 bringing up your total to $1170.
The 5% discount would be $58.50 leaving $1111.50 for the total. You are
correct it is just about a wash and the $1090.00 you had listed will be
fine. I'd be happy to build these for you. This will be the first 18" tall
cages I have done with the corner connector. I'll definitely get some photos
of that for the site as well. There is a lot of stuff packed into this two
cage combination! Very cool!

As for substraight I have been using newspaper for seventeen years. I
recently experimented with some Aspen shavings and have been very pleased
with the results. The Boas really seem to enjoy it better than the
newspaper. I just had 60 - 30 lb. bags of it delivered yesterday in fact and
am in the process of switching everything over to Aspen now. It's great
stuff.

Anyhow let me know when you will be ordering the cages and I'll look forward
to hearing back from you soon. Thanks for being patient with me getting you
those samples. Your cages will look pristine in comparison to the yucky
edges on the samples I just whacked out for you. The packaging of the cages
will be much nicer as well.

Thanks Boss!

Jeff

-----Original Message-----
From: Wayne
Sent: Thursday, April 18, 2002 10:51 PM
To: Jeff Ronne / The Boaphile
Subject: RE: Answers to your questions:


I just received the samples you sent me today, and I must say I was quite
pleased with the materials you use to build your enclosures.  I was very
impressed with the strength of the material as well as how light it is.  I
would like you to give me a price on an enclosure.  I will specify what I
need below.

I need two 4' x 2' x 18"  Item 422C
one corner connector Item 18NDC
On each of the 422C cages I want expandable ends, one on the right, one on
the left to make an L-shape final cage.
On each of the 422C cages I want the divider option.
On each of the four doors I want three hinges on the bottom, the two bumper
guards on the upper corners and a lock in the middle top of each door.

My estimate for this comes to

2 422C @ $338 each
1 18NDC @ $189 each
2 divider options $175
2 expandable ends $50

Total = $1090

This does not take into consideration the price of the locks or of the extra
hinge on each door.  Nor does it take into consideration the 5% discount for
orders over $1000.  Of course I figure these two to be about a wash.  I
would also like it in black.

On a side note, I noticed that in all your pictures, the bedding material in
your cages is newspaper.  Is this what you use for bedding?  I have never
used it as bedding, so if this is what you use, do you recommend it?

Thank you very much!  So far it has been a pleasure dealing with you.

W

-----Original Message-----
From: Jeff Ronne / The Boaphile [mailto:[email protected]]
Sent: Monday, April 08, 2002 12<img src="http://www.faunaclassifieds.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/wow.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':0'>2 PM
To: Wayne
Subject: RE: Answers to your questions:


I will. I just printed up your address and will try to get some samples off
you in a couple days.

Thanks,

Jeff

-----Original Message-----
From: Wayne
Sent: Sunday, April 07, 2002 7:15 PM
To: Jeff Ronne/The Boaphile
Subject: RE: Answers to your questions:


I am still very much interested in your product and am looking to make a
purchase soon.  If you could please send me a small piece of the plastic you
use in your cages as well as a small piece of the material you use for your
doors, I would greatly appreciate it.  I know it is very difficult to make a
determination of a product online, but yours look to be the absolute closest
thing to what I need.  Since this will be a custom order, I want to make
sure it is exactly what I need because of the inability to return it.  I
currently use a melamine enclosure with plexiglass doors without a problem
with my Burmese python and am looking to upgrade.  The particle board does
begin to eventually breakdown with the moisture.

Thank you very much!

Wayne

Address:



-----Original Message-----
From: Jeff Ronne/The Boaphile [mailto:[email protected]]
Sent: Sunday, January 20, 2002 5:18 PM
To: Wayne
Subject: Answers to your questions:


Here are the questions I have:

1.  Would it be possible to upgrade the latches on the door from slide-down
bolts to locks?

Yes, What do you think about just adding one lock at the center of the door?
Leaving the two blots on the left and right. You will need three points of
contact to hold your doors shut with a Burm.

2.  Do the bolts just slide down in front of the door, or do they slide down
into a cylinder on the door?  It is hard to tell when looking at the
pictures.

The Bolts slide down in front of a 1/8" thick rubber bumper which is
attached to the door. This makes the door at the point where the bolts are
fit quite snug. In addition the fact that this rubber bumper is here
"softens" the door as well. If the animal inside strikes at it the door, it
is not solid like glass would be. Softens the blow of a striking animal at
the door.

3.  I live in Charlotte, North Carolina and was wondering if you had any
customers in the area.  I would like to talk to someone who has purchased
one of your cages and perhaps take an opportunity to see one in person
before purchasing.

I have a customer in Raleigh NC. He has three cages so far and has just
ordered another ten or twelve which I will be shipping to him this week. I
am not sure he would allow you to stop and look at them or not. I will send
him a copy of this email and he can let me know if that is workable for him.
That will be up to him though. At least he might be willing to talk with you
over the phone.

4.  When the units are stacked one on top of the other, do they slide at
all, or do they fit snugly?

The cages are extremely light weight. For this reason I have what I call
"locking pin technology". Not really technological but it sounds fancy. Each
cage has holes drilled in the top and in the bottom. A 5 millimeter pin is
inserted into the top of the bottom cage and the next cage is set on top of
that cage and so on. They align very nicely this way and do not come out of
alignment. The holes that are drilled do not enter into the cage space
itself but are at the ends or near the front in some cases. Two different
methods depending on if the cages are "Classic" or "Drastic Plastic" line
cages.

5.  Do you have a preset size for the passthroughs, or can they be
customized based on the size of the snake?

The pass through in the ends are as large as can be made allowing some
material for bolting the cages together. This can be done by hand. Wignuts
and bolts are provided. The vertical pass throughs can be made larger. So
far the only size I have done has been 6" in diameter but I can certainly do
a larger opening.

6.  Also, do you offer any type of warranty or return policy, if I am
unhappy with the product or if it breaks under normal use?

I will warranty the product for a year under normal use. If you are moving a
cage and drop it down a flight of stairs, that is not covered. The warranty
is not insurance but warranty against defects in workmanship. Return policy?
If you ordered the 421C or 421D cage, I would allow that to be returned. But
I cannot built what amounts to custom caging to house a very large Burm and
take it back. I cannot store lots of these large cages and don't know when
exactly someone would want exactly what you might order again. For instance
if you wanted two 4' x 2' x 18" tall cages attached using "Expandable Ends"
and for some reason decided you did not want them I don't know when the next
time is that someone would want the exact size. Also shipping is not easy. I
have had boxes made specifically for each of the cages. The cage is
carefully wrapped and the ends are covered in a specific way with bubble
wrap to help ensure the safety of the cage during shipment. This has taken
me a long time to perfect and believe me when I say it was not easy to make
the shipping containers more or less UPS and FedEx proof. These guys are
very rough of boxes. So returning a cage would be very problematic.

I hope that answers your questions. If I have not scared you off now let me
know and I will sent you the samples of the plastic I use. I will also
contact my customer in Raleigh if I hear back from you to see if he will
talk with and or visit with you. Thanks very much for the inquiry.

Thank you,

Jeff


Jeff Ronne
The Boaphile
PO Box 394
Cannon Falls, MN 55009
(507) 263-2621
Email: [email protected]

Web Sites!!!

http://www.boaphileplastics.com
http://www.theboaphile.com
http://www.theratcafe.com
http://www.bengalshak.com


-----Original Message-----
From: Wayne
Sent: Sunday, January 13, 2002 4:52 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Your cages...


I must say after visiting your website, I am quite intrigued by your cages.
I do have a few questions to ask you in regards to these cages.
Unfortunately, I have already tried to purchase one cage online and have had
a very bad experience.  It was of extremely poor quality and not at all what
I expected given the price I paid for it.  I have a 14' albino burmese
python and really like the ability to expand and customize multiple
enclosures to make one large, custom-designed habitat.

Here are the questions I have:

1.  Would it be possible to upgrade the latches on the door from slide-down
bolts to locks?

2.  Do the bolts just slide down in front of the door, or do they slide down
into a cylinder on the door?  It is hard to tell when looking at the
pictures.

3.  I live in Charlotte, North Carolina and was wondering if you had any
customers in the area.  I would like to talk to someone who has purchased
one of your cages and perhaps take an opportunity to see one in person
before purchasing.

4.  When the units are stacked one on top of the other, do they slide at
all, or do they fit snugly?

5.  Do you have a preset size for the passthroughs, or can they be
customized based on the size of the snake?

Thank you in advance for your assistance!

Wayne
 
For Colleen and Chris.....an honest question with a touch of sarcasm:

When you are watching TV and you don't like the show......do you change the channel.....or leave it on and just complain about how bad it sucks?

Agree to disagree? And get on with life?

Peace - TC
 
It is now obvious that your goal is to start the manufacture of plastic cages yourself. This is obviously why you have sought to come here and besmirch my good name by calling me a liar-- Jeff


That says it all right there.

Wasn't this whole thing about not returning phone calls?
Why has it gotten this ugly.

I do not know if I already said it......But I once tried to order an albino boa from a "big breeder"  They did not return my calls.....They did not return my e-mails.....  am I bashing them on the forums.....  heck no.  They are busy people....and I do understand.
 
So Jeff, are you saying that even the first conversation Chris had with you was total BS?  You quoted us the price and answered the simple questions about overnight delivery, let him get off the phone WITHOUT DISCLOSING YOU COULDN'T MEET OUR SCHEDULE IN ANYWAY?  Exactly how many calls are necessary before we get the whole story?  Or should it have been OUR RESPONSIBILITY to know the "right" questions to ask.

I understand that your only possible way out of this is to BASH THE CUSTOMER.  But by refusing to admit you remember the conversation OR aplogize you are asking for us to continue to clarify.  Jeff, YOUR PHONE NUMBER WILL BE ON OUR BILL.  We are not Wayne... We are Chris and Colleen who have been trying to be good customers for over 6 months now and around whom you have fabricated this great persecution story.  Chris didn't make up a pseudonym like Ritchie wondered about.  Troy... lets hear some non-deletable stuff this time in support of basic business.  Why are you guys groping?

In fact, now I'd like to have a word with Wayne.  Hey everybody, does Wayne sound like a sinister cage builder too?  Jeff, the guy BOUGHT CAGES after you gave him samples, right?  You are paranoid.  If we were only sinister cage builders WHY would we order two of your most expensive cages?  Why would I be sitting here looking at shelves I had built to put the cages in if I really just wanted to produce and SELL them?

I'd also like to find out exactly how many "little guys" people are dealing with this "Boaphile Shuffle" who may not be on this forum.  I went on Kingsnake last night for the first time in months and see your ads all over the place.  So people to to the cage page and think... cool, I'll order... but there's no disclaimer about a hold on orders at all.  

I'm wondering, is the APPARENT demand for the cages a simple function of LACK of production?  If you were able to produce cages as fast as you could, I wonder if it would even be a sensible business venture for someone who actually wants to profit?  Or is it an inefficiency created illusion?  It's possible the cages need to be made more affordably in order to make them competitive. Shouldn't somebody like ZooMed want a cage line?  Those glass terrariums are expensive to ship, breakable, etc... the pet stores should love a plastic cage.  Hey ZooMed, help me out here and get this done so I don't have to.  

Its so simple Jeff there is just no legitimate place to go... you grossly misrepresented what you could do when Chris called you to begin with, since you were in a hurry you didn't take the time to correct him about the fact that THE CAGES WEREN'T EVEN IN STOCK.  Do you not think that if they weren't in stock you owed us a time frame quote rather than just saying OK Call back tomorrow to do the order.  HE TOLD YOU WE WANTED TO OVER NIGHT IT THE NEXT DAY.  Oh I know I know... you have to say you never got the call because you can't answer that and face all your buddies who believed you were telling the truth.

Regarding reasonable delivery schedule:  First of all, when people are prepaying for cages there should be no issue with "going into debt" to fill orders.  If you have 40-50 calls a day for people wanting cages, you must be rolling in cash right now, unless most of your calls are complaint calls.  Secondly, doesn't it say on the site that if we want a SPECIAL SIZE we have to ask you?  I asked you before about an 8 foot cage that wasn't a size listed.  Does it say anywhere that all those new features are special orders?  How would we know?  I just looked at the site this minute, again.  Ads all over the place about FREE SHIPPING (which I recommended to you the last time we talked on email 6 months ago, to make yourself competitive, and I can see you took my advice... hmmm I wonder why I'd bother advising you how to make things work if I were going into the CAGE BUSINESS??) Also, under BUSINESS PLAN it actually says you have three cabinet makers standing by to help you keep up with timely orders.  Is that no longer true?  Certainly by looking at your site a person wouldn't know you can't fill an order at this time.  Thirdly, YES, I NOWWW WANT TO GO INTO THE CAGE BUSINESS...  Actually, I don't really want the business, but if somebody else wants to do it, we'll put up the money, or do the marketing and web design, or whatever we can.  In fact, I have $900 extra lying around that I was going to give to Jeff.  

The last time I got this crappy treatment from you, Jeff, I told everyone who would listen, GO INTO THE CAGE BUSINESS, THIS GUY IS GETTING AWAY WITH MURDER.  Good product, horrible management, egomaniacal attitude that is distracting him from what could be a good business.  Not everyone knows how to put all the pieces together.  But someone will!

Quick story... when Pro-Products was a new company, Bob Pound was a little hard to get ahold of.  You know why?  Because he was working hard on his small company and didn't want to expand too fast.  However, he STILL would return calls or emails within a few days.  I've NEVER heard anyone complain about excessive waits.  I NEVER heard him complain that the business that made his livelihood possible was getting in the way of his family... most people see their business as being supportive of their family, and if the business needs more HELP they get the business more help.  If Bob takes a lot of time on something it is usually explaining HOW to use his product to help a customer.  I've never encountered him surfing around the forums.  I think his reputation is based not only on a killer product, but on doing work first and taking care of the customers.  I'm betting Bob has a family.  Is there anyone who doesn't have a family?  Or a homelife of some kind?  Lots of little guys manage to be courteous, have a life, and NOT BASH THEIR CUSTOMERS.

QUESTION:  So the $900 is right on the money, isn't it?  Previously everybody was trying to claim the price was $199 each.  Now I wonder where we got the $900... could it have been from the verbal estimate we got from Jeff on the phone the day he SWEARS WE DID NOT CALL?

QUESTION:  What about the phone bill, Jeff?  If there's a phantom answering your phone and quoting to people, don't you want to know?

A few posts back you said IF we left a message we STILL probably wouldn't have heard from you.  Just now you say if we'd left 3 messages you would've called back.  Hmmm...  

1)  You agreed to the order, which it turns out we had the correct pricing for.
2)  You agreed to the schedule.
3)  We acted in good faith to place the order as you described.
4)  Something came up and you elected to abandon the order.
5)  After almost a month you found time to answer a post on a forum when you claim you are so busy you can't answer a phone call.

CUSTOMER BASHING IS NOT GOOD BUSINESS.  Your peers may be backing you because they think... "Oh man, some day I may just blow somebody off and I don't want anyone to sympathize with them cause it could be bad for business"... but your POTENTIAL CUSTOMERS are thinking... "Oh man, this customer can PROVE he talked to the guy and Jeff's still denying it and calling him a liar... I don't even want to go there."  

(Sorry about the double signatures before... I only got on here to straighten this out.)
 
After reading the thread of e-mails that Jeff just posted, He just showed me that my opinions of him were correct. He is a very busy, but honest man with a lot of integrity. I once lost patience with Jeff and DEMANDED my $$ back. He paypaled me that day with apologies....... 2 days later the product arrived PRIORITY MAIL. Boy I felt like a jerk! I sent the $$ back to him and have had very high regard for him ever since. Casey Hulse
 
"And the truth shall set ye free."

Seems to me that the more that is posted in support of Chris, the more the real reasoning behind the original topic is revealed. The ulterior motives are becoming quite evident here.

Tell you what, Colleen. If you want your position to carry any weight or hold any merit, post the phone records on here. Not something that has been cut and pasted. But true, viable proof. Quit talking about the phone records and post them. Plain and simple. It is the same as in a court of law. All yours and Chris' posts are is hearsay at this point. The burden of proof rests solely on you. If you have them, post them. Do that, and it will lend credibility to your statements. Just a thought to consider.  <img src="http://www.faunaclassifieds.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':)'>
 
Oops, sorry, didn't mean to ignore questions.  Just didn't see them... Tom, channel changed. Done regarding wishing to purchase from Jeff.  But NOT DONE regarding Jeff calling us liars.  QUESTION:  What about the phone bill showing the call Jeff claims we're lying about?  Do you not read these forums to see how whats happening out there?  If I get 20 emails all from people with similar experience but for some reason are afraid to post because they'll get jumped on, will that matter?  If someone even reads this it's because they are wondering of the place is in business, also.  And the next person to get this routine needs to understand that THEY can avoid it ahead of time, and they better not dare complain later cause Jeff will call them liars and just wash his hands of it.

Ritchie - HOLE IN THE MARKET!  I owe Jeff... he showed us the way!  I'd like to take credit for masterminding this whole cage idea... but I didn't.  Thank you Jeff.  

Remember, DON'T BASH YOUR CUSTOMERS, they make your existance possible... OR NOT.
 
YEAH!  John, now you're talking!  THANK YOU!  Ok... how do I do this without putting all my business call numbers here?  Just black out all but the calls to Jeff?  Just as Jeff deleted Wayne's contact information (so nobody can possibly verify he's not us, incidentally), I can't be putting client's phone numbers on the web.

And when the calls are there, can I ask, then what?

I appreciate the constructive suggestion.
 
Read my last post, Colleen.

Post the phone records or let it go. The burden of proof is on you and Chris. If you can't, stop wasting our time saying "What about the phone records?".
 
I would suggest blacking out only the numbers not pertinent to your case. And/or the numbers that might cause a possible security problem. I see your point, but regardless of how you do it, posting them will lend viabilty to your story. Then others will be able to formulate their replies and opinions based on that.
 
gee whiz !!!
and chris was bashing me about the so called books that I wrote?

all this over  a supposedly missed lousy phone call?
I / we saw your point 20 posts ago.
The point was Jeff needed to get his communication in order.
He also thanked dwedeking for his constructive criticism.
And now we are still writing books about a phone call that "supposedly" took place.

What more do you want?
Do you want a free cage?

Remind me that if I have anything for sale not to sell to you. It would just be too much of a headache.
 
Put it this way, Colleen. Were you to post the phone records, it would make me re-evaluate my position. It would also lend credence to your story. Proof such as that can not be pushed aside. My advice- post them. If they are valid, I know people will re-consider theirs as well. The problem is, you need evidence to support your claim. Phone records are that kind of evidence. Until, I see proof, I can only make a judgement call based on words and hearsay.
 
OPPORTUNITY!!  HOLE IN THE MARKET!!


Go start your business then.
What will your business name be?
(I stole my business by bashing my competitors?)

Fine he is hard to get a hold of....Fine people don't want to post for fear of "whatever"

but it is now obvious your whole posts is to try and steal customers from him for your new business.
 
Ok John, I just looked at the last bill.  The cut off was Apr 13 so we should be getting one any day, and I think I can just make a marker line down through part of the numbers so they aren't complete.  Good deal.  And then, what, scan it?  

Again, once the calls are there?

Ritchie-  I hear ya... Aren't you reading this cause you kinda want to know what the truth is?  It seems like my replies to posts by you guys are taken as dragging this on.  Do you not expect people to reply?  Jeff called Chris a liar after we had been so patient with him, and dragged all of this tangental irrelevant stuff into this just because he didn't want to apologize and you're surprised when we reply?  When we have time, we'll continue to reply, as much as possible.

Thanks.  I'm still assuming that despite all the bashing you guys want to know the truth on some level. -Colleen
 
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