Bob Clark (Industry and community irresponsibility?) INQUIRY

[LadyViper]

You are 100% correct...

 

[BenSiegelReptiles]

True, but in your case it is a matter of the pot calling the kettle black. It might even be worse in your case, Bob did it twice, you do it all the time when anyone visits your website. Do you really think it is helping our hobby to have them there?

I am more than sure Bob is having second thoughts about his actions, but are you? Just food for thought.

good point Bobby-and I would like to add that the people watching bobs thing on tv are doing just that--watching it on television. Sensationalistic tv that many semi intelligent people take with a grain of salt--it is entertainment and nothing more. Many different people not just herpers. Your site is attracting herpers more so than others so it is in fact worse to show improper technique on a site that would be frequented by hobbysists, and even worse---people looking to get into the hobby.

 

[LadyViper]

I have asked for a BOI and nobody has put it up....You should look at the sight before commenting..It's only fair.

 

[ViperPaintball]

And here is what Kerry thinks when a buddy is called into question regarding unsafe handling techniques with venomous snakes.

It's OK for a friend to show poor handling technique. Just not someone else.

I don't know ANYONE in those photos. These pictures actually appear in other places, which is where we found them. Do a Google image search of "snake temple" and you'll find the same pics I did. They are not my "friends." I don't know them at all. Also, if you notice, there is a disclaimer denouncing their behavior:

These photos are not of us, nor of anyone we know. We also do not freehandle venomous reptiles, nor do we recommend doing so. I simply found it interesting that the vipers that inhabit this temple are so docile. If these photos are of you, or someone you know, and you would like them removed please contact me and I will be happy to do so.

Now, where was the disclaimer on the TV shows that Jack and Bob appeared?

Additionally, our little website is seen by few, and we didn't physically do anything like we saw Jack and Bob physically take part in on national TV with millions of viewers...TWICE!

I have stated my side of this (BTW...I am not a female for those of you assuming I am) and many others agreed. The mods and owners apparently decided it was appropriate, poignant, and in the right place, and not in violation of any terms of use for the site. Then Bob showed up, but said nothing. A short while later a bunch of new folks joined in to play propaganda. I've said my piece, I'm done. If you want any more from me PM me. In the meantime the discussion has been had, and I found the info I wanted.

I'm done. Trolls...have at it.

 

[critical bill]

Adios!

 

[BenSiegelReptiles]

I did look at the site--


http://www.houstonreptile.com/gallery/jade3.jpg


it is a nice site by the way, but this picture is definately not what I would call safe handling, and yes I know popes are not terribly potent and all that jazz, but that guy could still get easily tagged in the cheek. And like I said--I just think that discussion forum would be a better place for all this. No one got screwed on a deal with Bob. I am not close with Bob either--we do occasional business and say Hi at shows and what not. I am just shocked at the response to him which is why I put up my dealings with him. If someone had a bad deal--post it--if someone had a good deal-post it. For all we know a bunch of people who saw that show went out to the pet stores and bought snakes because they saw them on letterman. One thing I know for sure is that those bits on tv or a pic of a guy holding a popes too close will have no bearing on the usfw decision to try and pass laws to add pythons and boas to injurious federal species which will in essensce destroy our industry. Shoot I saw a video of a baby playing with a cobra on youtube and getting bit several times(looks to have its mouth sewn shut)--I must have been emailed that 100 times, or how about all those pics of pythons cut open with human remains spilling out that getting forwarded around to everyone---NOW THAT IS DAMAGING.

 

[Seamus Haley]

I don't know ANYONE in those photos. These pictures actually appear in other places, which is where we found them. Do a Google image search of "snake temple" and you'll find the same pics I did.

Oh. You stole them. Way to... wantonly violate copyright law?

The mods and owners apparently decided it was appropriate, poignant, and in the right place, and not in violation of any terms of use for the site.

They decided it was in the right forum. None of them commented on the poignancy of anything they read. "It doesn't violate any rules." isn't the same as "I agree with your points." The individuals may or may not agree with anything that has been posted- those opinions are seperate and distinct from their declaration that the forum the thread was created in was appropriate for the topic. Additionally, there are multiple levels of moderator on this site, a structure you seem to be unaware of. The owner, of course, functions as the webmaster and will moderate. There are four "Supermods" who have been designated to act in a capacity just below that of the webmaster. Then there are dozens of moderators who are capable of assessing warning points and are well within the definition of their role to redirect users about the content of their posts or suggest changes in content or attitude. Several of the individuals who were argued with or told to "leave moderation to the moderators" fall into this last category. If you weren't assessed points for your antagonistic responses to their redirection of your behavior, you should count yourself lucky.

 

[richardduckworth]

For all we know a bunch of people who saw that show went out to the pet stores and bought snakes because they saw them on letterman.

that's not really a good thing is it (unless you are the one profiting from it)? reptile ownership has increased more since 2000 than any other group of pets.

MOST reptiles are mistreated severely and many, MANY more simply die because people make one of those spur of the moment decisions and "go gettum one of those thangs".

i would consider that a negative, although i wouldn't consider it mr. hannah's or mr. clark's fault.

i really hated the misinformation and the apparent lack of preparation (intended or not).

 

[LadyViper]

I did look at the site--


http://www.houstonreptile.com/gallery/jade3.jpg


it is a nice site by the way, but this picture is definately not what I would call safe handling, and yes I know popes are not terribly potent and all that jazz, but that guy could still get easily tagged in the cheek. And like I said--I just think that discussion forum would be a better place for all this. No one got screwed on a deal with Bob. I am not close with Bob either--we do occasional business and say Hi at shows and what not. I am just shocked at the response to him which is why I put up my dealings with him. If someone had a bad deal--post it--if someone had a good deal-post it. For all we know a bunch of people who saw that show went out to the pet stores and bought snakes because they saw them on letterman. One thing I know for sure is that those bits on tv or a pic of a guy holding a popes too close will have no bearing on the usfw decision to try and pass laws to add pythons and boas to injurious federal species which will in essensce destroy our industry. Shoot I saw a video of a baby playing with a cobra on youtube and getting bit several times(looks to have its mouth sewn shut)--I must have been emailed that 100 times, or how about all those pics of pythons cut open with human remains spilling out that getting forwarded around to everyone---NOW THAT IS DAMAGING.

You got us on the Popes picture. I took that picture, it was plenty far from his face. But to be fair, that picture is being removed from our website. I do agree the angle it was taken does look unsafe even if it was not, people won't know that.

But, has someone said before...Let Bob Clark deal with this. Kerry posted the link to inform people and voice our opinion. That is all.

I still stand behind the Temple Viper's section in our website, but I am reasonable enough to admit the popes picture is questionable and should be taken down.

 

[Dennis Hultman]

Dennis,

I don't see it the same, Your pulling the choice contents out of a thread to make your point. Please, start the BOI on us and let everyone view and decide, please post the full information from the other thread. Whatever happens, happens..... I'm a big girl and I can handle it....start a poll..

Maybe if enough people are truly against the history of this viper, I'll pull it.

I think live show on TV that is not related to the reptile industry is different. The play drama and fear acting was really sad. Our website reported the facts and history on the temple viper. People that view our site probably are not randomly searching, they went to a reptile website looking for information on reptiles.

The people that view the FOX and letterman shows are daily viewers and the majority of them may not have nothing to do or even want to have anything ever to do with reptiles. This show sure wouldn't help change any minds and is not friendly towards snakes at all.

Is was bad acting at it's best....

Is there anything wrong with sharing the link of Bob and Jack on TV?

Even if you think we have double standards how does this effect what Bob and Jack did?

I do think your off topic for this thread, why do keep getting this thread off topic?

Thanks for clarifying what you see as the differences. I didn’t state a position if I agreed with either you or Bob. I asked what the difference is based on the statements you made on that thread compared to this one.

Anyone can click on the link and view the content. Steve asked some of the same type of questions of which Bob is being asked of here and those are your responses. Since you are calling for people to boycott Bob and posting rumors and anonymous third-party information about his stock, Why shouldn’t you also be questioned about your motives here since previous statements of yours appeared to take a different stance? Due to the statements you made in this thread, it isn't off-topic.

Again, you have made it clear what you believe the differences are. Thank you.

 

[Wraith]

I don't know ANYONE in those photos. These pictures actually appear in other places, which is where we found them. Do a Google image search of "snake temple" and you'll find the same pics I did. They are not my "friends." I don't know them at all. Also, if you notice, there is a disclaimer denouncing their behavior:

so you found photos on google and thought it completely appropriate and ethical to steal them for your own personal use? what ever happened to asking permission to use other people's copyrighted photos? just because a photo is on google or the internet in general does not mean it is public domain and free for the taking.

 

[BenSiegelReptiles]

yes it really is a good thing. Every new hobbyist that comes into our hobby is a good thing. Hopefully they go to a good store that will teach them some kind of proper husbandry, or maybe they will buy from a bad store and do some research online and either find that good store or make the appropriate changes themselves. Every new person that gets into our hobby, is one less person there is to oppose it. So yes--it is a good thing on so many levels. Most of us met some hard luck with our first reptiles, but it planted the seed and we grew from that point. I kept my first cornsnake on bed a corn and tried feeding it crickets at the advise of my pet store when I was 8. We did not have the internet back then, but I kept trying. I think pet stores --even bad ones--are far more informed then they were back then, and info online is readily available which was not back then so it is progress not perfection.

 

[Mooing Tricycle]

Since you are calling for people to boycott Bob and posting rumors and anonymous third-party information about his stock, Why shouldn’t you also be questioned about your motives here since previous statements of yours appeared to take a different stance?

I know I would like to see proof to those claims (before I even THOUGHT to believe them), they were stated earlier in the thread, and another user commented ( maybe a couple ) and things kinda just went on... I think theyre worth bringing back up.

Prove it or shut it in that instance there bucky.

I can see the mis-handling of a possibly venomous reptile * especially one as wormy(active/trying to get away) as that snake REGARDLESS of the fact it might have been a venomoid* as something to point out as completely irresponsible. But making claims and not backing them up is a whole 'nother ball game that, if you want to play, you better be willing to step up and play the right way.

 

[The BoidSmith]

A couple people that I know were asked to appear with Hanna but refused due to his antics and lack of herp knowledge.

Tim,

Who were the couple that declined to appear in Letterman's show? Was it this same show where Bob was in?

Thanks,

A.D.

 

[LauraB]

I'm in ..

total agreement with Seamus, Jim Flaherty, Steve J, Ben ... (who'd I miss?)

By the way, Kerry ... nice photos on your fun filled kids birthday party events page. I especially like the cute little boys and girl with boas wrapped around their little necks. Good for photo opps and promoting your business. And the animals must really have a blast, too.
Your traveling exhibit is a great idea as well! Even more profitable when you offer your venomous collection for an additional charge. I'm sure the entire collection enjoy the exciting life of travel, adventure and meeting new people.

Oh yeah, great pics of the venomous Wagler's pit vipers draped all over the visitors to the Snake Temple in malaysia, even if they aren't your photos (I'm certain you got permission to use those on your site, right?)
.. oh, and the one of you with your 8-foot boa, Morticia, wrapped around your neck is really cool, especially so since you called the photo "hanging.jpg". Cool kids with pet boas everywhere will love that!
Good thing that little white-lipped tree viper didn't just decide to tag you while you were busy mugging for the camera! I suppose getting a good shot of you was more important than keeping your eye on the snake.
Quoting your partner, LadyViper, "With the talk of Boa/python bans, wouldn't someone that makes a living from Breeding pythons be more careful about what do/say in public?" (or on the WORLDWIDE web?)


Pam's question: "This is only question, but do you think it's possible Bob Clark is trying to break into the "reptile showbiz", just like Hanna?

ANSWER:
Kerry's quote (pg 3): "And to Jack Hanna...if you want someone to work with cobras for you during appearances I have plenty of my own, and will have a contract for you that requires that you sit your ass down and listen to some ACTUAL facts about the animal(s) you are presenting, what the **** will happen when I'm on stage in charge of this animal...and what won't happen. I'll keep every reptile keeper in the world from hating you, and keep you from sounding like a g** d*** moron to anyone who knows a thing about them. Give me a call next time and, like Dave said, "Don't bring Bob back."

Pam: "I think we would all like to hear Bob Clarks answer has to why he did this."
Why? I don't think he has to answer to you or anyone else. Do I think it was smart? No, not really. Do I truly believe those 2 broadcasts will have any kind of impact on legislation or the herp industry. Of course not! You're probably doing more harm by posting links to the videos and carrying on about something that could quietly go away, but for you and Kerry. The best way NOT to bring negative attention is to keep one's mouth shut.

Do I realize that it's TV and that mostly it's all for show, for the shock and ooooh, ahhhh effect and scripted? Yes. Just the same as you and Kerry script your presentations and want that ooooh, ahhhhh effect from the little kiddies you "entertain". Why don't you tell us why you drag your herp collection around and let kids drape constrictors around their necks (and even take photos to post)?
Those animal segments on late night TV have been around for years and years. We all know that. I'm sure if one looked hard enough, one could track down some dangerous animal that Joan Embrey or Jim Fowler or even Steve Irwin brought out that didn't go quite as planned. Perhaps the two of you are just jealous that Bob got a momentary spotlight (albeit uncomfortable, questionable and not well presented) on TV and you didn't.

Someone, I think it was Dan, asked about Pam AKA LadyViper posting her full name here. Funny thing, Dan. She's registered as Pam Roberts here, she's Pam (Pamela) Robertson on the two websites and elsewhere..

~ Laura Bolt


** to be fair, I started this post, then had to leave for 30 or so minutes. In that time, I've seen where Pam has stated the photo of Kerry and the white-lipped tree viper will be removed. Too bad it had to take others pointing out obvious hypocricies for that to happen.

 

[The BoidSmith]

Someone, I think it was Dan, asked about Pam AKA LadyViper posting her full name here. Funny thing, Dan. She's registered as Pam Roberts here, she's Pam (Pamela) Robertson on the two websites and elsewhere..

Well I apologized already...but is it Roberts or Robertson?

Thanks

 

[Seamus Haley]

** to be fair, I started this post, then had to leave for 30 or so minutes. In that time, I've seen where Pam has stated the photo of Kerry and the white-lipped tree viper will be removed. Too bad it had to take others pointing out obvious hypocricies for that to happen.

It's gone already. Or I get a 404 error when I tried the link anyway... which, considering the timing, doesn't seem like a planned website renovation. More like dumping evidence.

 

[The BoidSmith]

FULL NAMES are required on each posting you make on the BOI. Anyone failing to adhere to this simple rule has subjected their message to possibly being deleted. Anyone using a false name may be subjecting ALL of their messages to possibly being deleted as well has having their account removed from this site upon discovery.

I am going out on a limb and expect a lot of flak from people by providing this forum, so if you are not willing to stand up, state your claim, and put your name on it, then I'm not interested in providing you the space to make anonymous accusations. Such messages will be deleted as deemed appropriate in the individual circumstances surrounding the message.

Any moderator around...

 

[Seamus Haley]

Well I apologized already...but is it Roberts or Robertson?

Thanks

Apparantly too soon- I pointed out that she had a name attached to her posts and profile in a couple spots, but it's not the same name that's attached to the handle as it's listed on her own website, where she goes by Pamela "Lady Viper" Robertson. Something I have screenshotted in case it was also on that list of corrections they conveniently forgot to make until it was made public here.

 

[LadyViper]

I don't guess it matters any longer....If your interested in checking my ID give me a call.

You have caught our great scandal to over power the fauna....Boy we really proved something...We are really bad people out to rule the world.

You can call us all the names you want, you can find things to discredit us.

You can take down this thread for all I care....

Hey those links are all over the internet and have nothing to do with us.