Bob on Kingsnake (BAD GUY)

[Dennis Hultman]

Old BOI
http://www.faunaclassifieds.com/inquiry2/posts/4359.html

Bob [email protected] -rubber boas- GREAT GUY
Author Subject: Bob [email protected] -rubber boas- GREAT GUY
Lucy Howard Posted At 12:33:30 06/10/2001 I can highly recommend Bob, he is great...I got my rubber boas from him. Due to the shipment getting delayed one day, one of the babies arrived weak (hot here) and died a couple days later.
Bob immediately offered a replacement, without questions or hassles...he has been helpful and answered my countless questions...he even helped me out with some questions i had about my ball pythons and other snakes i have...
It is just nice to deal with someone that is honest and helpfull and makes customer service a high priority...
thank you Bob
Mike Theurer Re: Bob [email protected] -rubber boas- GREAT GUY
5674.html Posted At 22:49:52 07/11/2001 Bob is awesome and I would be typing two handed but this awesome little guy is on my other hand.His packaging is truly the best I have seen.I would recomend him to anyone interested in rubber boas!!!!!!!!

Current BOI
http://www.faunaclassifieds.com/forums/showthread.php?t=77295

About 2 weeks ago, I had noticed an ad on KS selling LIVE MOSS.... I'm setting up a large enclosure for some Canary Chondros and they like it moist and humid.... The seller is Bob Mackin ([email protected], (425) 746-9782).... I hadn't heard from him in a week or so, so I just figured he was out of live moss and let it drop, then on Saturday (March 18), I got an email from him saying that a "mini bale" would cost $31 (and change).... I PayPal'd him immediately with my shipping info and left it at that.... Then on Sunday (March 19), he emails me to tell me that the $31 was just for the "mini bale" and that the shipping would cost another $19 for PRIORITY SERVICE via UPS.... I figured, fine, he will ship it on Monday and I will have it by Thursday (at the latest).... Well, Today is now Friday (March 24) and I hadn't received it.... So I sent him an email asking what was up.... He emails me back telling me he just sent it out TODAY (probably because of my email, which WAS to the point), and he gave me a tracking number from UPS.... Well, tonight when I checked the number, I find out that he shipped it GROUND!!.... It won't arrive till NEXT Friday (March 31).... I emailed him immediately upon me finding out this info, and I told him how very disappointed I was, and that I was posting this thread.... I also told him that if he needed the extra shipping money that badly, he could KEEP IT!!....
Needless to say, I will never do business with him again, no matter what his live moss looks like.... Not one word to keep me informed untill I emailed him.... NOT very professional....
This is really not a big deal, but he sure didn't so what he said he would.... Just BE CAREFUL when dealing with him, and MAKE SURE you plan ahead.... you might have a long wait....

Neil

Pets & Things
14310 NE 20th St Ste A
Bellevue, WA 98007
(425) 746-9782

http://www.insiderpages.com/b/3723239354

 

[DavidBeard]

In reality, doesn't reporting him just give another black eye to the herp hobby as a whole? He didn't rip you off or send you a dead snake.

The entire arachnid community illegally ships their livestock via the USPS and nobody files reports on anyone in that community.

 

[Lucille]

In reality, doesn't reporting him just give another black eye to the herp hobby as a whole? He didn't rip you off or send you a dead snake.

The entire arachnid community illegally ships their livestock via the USPS and nobody files reports on anyone in that community.

I guess I just don't cotton to what it sounds like you are saying, David. It sounds like you are saying that because entire communities of people do something illegal, it should be given a pass.
I disagree. I think that turning a blind eye to this sort of behavior is what will give the herp community a black eye. If we all stand together and decide we won't allow it, vendors might not do it.

 

[DavidBeard]

Yeah, or maybe we should just NARC on everybody who does something out of line and make it look like all herpers are low life criminals.

Its not like he shipped a Mamba via the USPS, it escaped and killed a bunch of Nuns.

People regularly ship the most toxic species of scorpions on the planet via USPS and guess what you don't see concerning arachnids? Bad press in the media about them and proposed bans like we have here in the herp world.

I think theres a lot of grey area that should be payed more attention to (or less, depending on how you see it).

Theres lots of things that are "illegal" that I don't agree with. Spitting on the sidewalk is still illegal, do you call the cops if you see somebody doing that? What good does acting like Benedict Arnold on your fellow herpers do?

I could see if the guy had scammed somebody or done something negligent or dangerous. But a rubber boa? Come on now. The guy got what he paid for, the outcome could have been MUCH worse trust me.

 

[Craigh]

I think the issue here was the consumer could of gotten in trouble himself and didn't want to be involved with something illegal.. Its not about being a narc ....

 

[Dennis Hultman]

I just bought a "captive bred" rubber boa from him. A yearling. And as I speak, it is being shipped via USPS.

Yes, I am livid. But what do I do to report this guy to the proper authorities? I only have his e-mail address, no phone number, and hopefully there will be a return address on the package when it arrives.

And I hope the snake arrives alive. I only assumed he would ship either FedEx or UPS, because I TOLD HIM that it gets well over 90 here at 3 in the afternoon, which is when the USPS delivery guy makes his rounds here. I also assumed that like every other person who ships live animals he would KNOW that shipping USPS is illegal.

I feel like an idiot...and I feel horrible because this snake might arrive dead...

Was shipping included in the purchase price or did you pay the costs associated with shipping UPS?

 

[spawn]

Isn't it also illegal to ship live animals via UPS without denoting "live animals" or something similar on the packaging with a sharpie marker?

I have to agree with the whole "giving the community a bad rep" perspective here. What are the chances the OP would get in trouble for the boa? Slim to nil. I'd be a lil' more apprehensive had the animal have been a hot snake.

 

[SPJ]

Was shipping included in the purchase price or did you pay the costs associated with shipping UPS?

I was wondering that too. The ad states shipping is additional. He only paid $25 and change to ship. How much did he charge you?

 

[WingedWolf]

Ok, so shipping snakes via USPS is illegal--but you apparently expected he might ship it via UPS, which is also illegal? (Because contents need to be accurately marked, and UPS will not ship snakes).
You are complaining about what?

 

[jbt123]

It was only 25 dollars to ship the snake, I assumed it was be via UPS (yes, of course a properly marked package, which I've had shipped to me DOZENS of times, which is NOT illegal), or FedEx. I have had a snake shipped to me from Florida via UPS for only 20 dollars one time because this location happened to be only 4 hours from me, so I assumed that he was close. I should not have assumed that he would be a responsible seller and send the snake with a legal carrier.

I am complaining because it is illegal, the package was not properly marked, the snakes life was in jeopardy because of this, and I could have gotten in trouble. By shipping a package without proper marks (at least FRAGILE would have been nice) you are risking the life of that animal. Plus, you don't know how wary I've been today, I feel like a criminal, but I know it's not my fault that he shipped the snake before he told me how he was going to do so. I specifically said "I assume you are shipping UPS or FedEx, right?" and he never answered that question for me.

I am an idiot for not seeing that he's just trying to make a quick buck.

Ship it UPS, FedEx, DHL, or what-have-you, you should properly mark it no matter what.

Two wrongs don't make a right. I wouldn't be making people hate the herp community if I in fact did report him, I would just prevent him from doing it again. BECAUSE I CARE that he shipped illegally shows that I am responsible herp hobbyist and that some of us do care if someone breaks the rules.

And whether it's "wrong" or "right", or you don't think it's a "big deal" to ship snakes via USPS, it doesn't matter: the fact is it's illiegal. End of story.

Okay, I'm sorry guys. Not trying to argue. But seriously, don't say that something that is illegal is "OK" because people do it "all the time". The snake arrived safe, and was packaged well (I will admit) but it was still illegal.

Should I really be explaining myself, and why I'm "complaining"??

 

[DavidBeard]

Well, you haven't received many snakes shipped to you if you don't know the typical cost of UPS/Fed-Ex ($50+ nowadays).

Its illegal to ship ANY snake unless it is via Delta Dash or a certified Fed-Ex account. 95% of the herp hobby violates the Lacey Act when they ship live animals. This is common knowledge, yet nobody complains. Why? Because the legalities are stupid.

Marijuana is illegal, yet kills nobody. Alcohol is legal and kills thousands of people each year. You shouldn't base your own code of ethics or morality on what is or isn't legal. Use your head.

 

[Wraith]

I am complaining because it is illegal,....... BECAUSE I CARE that he shipped illegally shows that I am responsible herp hobbyist and that some of us do care if someone breaks the rules......... And whether it's "wrong" or "right", or you don't think it's a "big deal" to ship snakes via USPS, it doesn't matter: the fact is it's illiegal. End of story.

UPS does NOT allow the shipping of snakes anymore than the USPS. So why are you complaining about a guy doing something illegal and yet you are demanding/encouraging that he do the same illegal thing (i.e. break the rules) by shipping with other carriers that also do NOT allow the shipping of snakes? You do not make sense. Shipping snakes right now only happens "legally" if I am not mistaken with Delta Dash and FedEx and you have to be pre-authorized shippers to use either. You really can't just walk off the street and ship a snake with them.

the package was not properly marked, the snakes life was in jeopardy because of this, and I could have gotten in trouble. By shipping a package without proper marks (at least FRAGILE would have been nice) you are risking the life of that animal.

It is well known that marking something "Fragile" is basically putting a big "kick me" sign on the box that ENCOURAGES the handlers to play football or basketball with the box which puts the items in the box (in this case a live animal) in MORE danger for damage to occur.

 

[Jim O]

Marijuana is illegal, yet kills nobody. Alcohol is legal and kills thousands of people each year. You shouldn't base your own code of ethics or morality on what is or isn't legal. Use your head.

David, you've said lots of dumb things here but that's one of the dumbest.

Do you really believe that no one "high" on marijuana was ever impaired enough while operating a motor vehicle to have caused a death?

While you are thinking about that one, look at http://www.cancer.org/docroot/NWS/content/NWS_1_1x_Smoking_Marijuana_May_Increase_Cancer_Risk.asp. While lung cancer has recently been found (in one study) not to be increased, cancers of the head and neck (throat, tongue, larynx, mouth, etc.) are more common in marijuana smokers. Those can be and often are fatal cancers. Moreover, they are an absolutely miserable death.

Further, in patients with chronic lung disease ( COPD - emphysema and chronic bronchitis), marijuana smoke causes exacerbation of the condition. Such exacerbations can and occasionally are fatal. I've seen it more than once.

Making blanket statements like "kills nobody" is pretty ridiculous. If regular heavy marijuana use was anywhere near as common as regular heavy alcohol use or regular heavy tobacco use, I will wager a year's income against a dollar that the scientific data would be compelling with respect to carcinogenesis and lung disease.

 

[DavidBeard]

If you can find me a documented case where marijuana played a part in someone's death, I'd be happy to recant my statement.

Call me "dumb" all you want, but my point remains. Marijuana is much less harmful than alcohol or tobacco yet is illegal. Kind of like shipping snakes via USPS. Too often people focus on the word "illegal" and never really stop to consider *why* something is illegal. Sound reasoning is not a requisite of illegality.

 

[John E Dove]

If you can find me a documented case where marijuana played a part in someone's death, I'd be happy to recant my statement.

Um Mr Beard,
This was an easy one.
"Even as the UN General Assembly voted this week for a death penalty moratorium, two Asian nations were once again exercising the ultimate sanction against drug offenders. In Malaysia, a man faces death for less than two pounds of marijuana, while in China, a man has been sentenced to death for trafficking in methamphetamine.

In Malaysia, Razali Ahmad, 33, was found guilty of trafficking marijuana Tuesday after police searched his house and found 858 grams. In Malaysia, the charge of trafficking carries an automatic death sentence."

 

[Dennis Hultman]

Its illegal to ship ANY snake unless it is via Delta Dash or a certified Fed-Ex account.

Actual the differences between shipping illegal and shipping against the policy of a company is very different.

It is only illegal to ship by USPS. UPS has policies in place which violating isn't violating federal law except with the notation on marking.

The blanket statement is also incorrect in that UPS does grant several permission on a very limited basis.

95% of the herp hobby violates the Lacey Act
when they ship live animals. This is common knowledge, yet nobody complains. Why? Because the legalities are stupid.

My experience would lead me to state that this is true. Most don't label correctly. Not even those that have approval with FedEx.

Yeah, or maybe we should just NARC on everybody who does something out of line and make it look like all herpers are low life criminals.

Its not like he shipped a Mamba via the USPS, it escaped and killed a bunch of Nuns.

People regularly ship the most toxic species of scorpions on the planet via USPS and guess what you don't see concerning arachnids? Bad press in the media about them and proposed bans like we have here in the herp world.

I think theres a lot of grey area that should be payed more attention to (or less, depending on how you see it).

Theres lots of things that are "illegal" that I don't agree with. Spitting on the sidewalk is still illegal, do you call the cops if you see somebody doing that? What good does acting like Benedict Arnold on your fellow herpers do?

I could see if the guy had scammed somebody or done something negligent or dangerous. But a rubber boa? Come on now. The guy got what he paid for, the outcome could have been MUCH worse trust me.

I have a hard time seeing the difference here shipping a rubber boa compared to your positions in the past.

 

[Cat_72]

If you can find me a documented case where marijuana played a part in someone's death, I'd be happy to recant my statement.

Call me "dumb" all you want, but my point remains. Marijuana is much less harmful than alcohol or tobacco yet is illegal. Kind of like shipping snakes via USPS. Too often people focus on the word "illegal" and never really stop to consider *why* something is illegal. Sound reasoning is not a requisite of illegality.

Hmm....take these figures, take into account the number of people using marijuana regularly vs the number who use alcohol regularly....and wow. These happen to be from the Boston metro area...first I came across.

 

[Cat_72]

I apologize for that being so darn big, I'm at work and don't have the same tools I have at home to take a decent screenshot and keep it readable yet not huge, lol.

 

[Dennis Hultman]

Not so long ago we discussed this topic in this

thread:http://www.faunaclassifieds.com/forums/showthread.php?t=83939&highlight=receive+snake+USPS

I voted on that poll when it first came out. My position was "Accept the package and never do business with that individual again"

I don't believe attracting attention by the government would be best. I wouldn't have reported it. I also don't believe in supporting those who aren't willing to go the extra step to ship in a way that is less likely to draw attention, regulations and penalties to the community. IMO

 

[spawn]

I am complaining because it is illegal, the package was not properly marked, the snakes life was in jeopardy because of this, and I could have gotten in trouble. By shipping a package without proper marks (at least FRAGILE would have been nice) you are risking the life of that animal. Plus, you don't know how wary I've been today, I feel like a criminal, but I know it's not my fault that he shipped the snake before he told me how he was going to do so. I specifically said "I assume you are shipping UPS or FedEx, right?" and he never answered that question for me.


I'm empathetic for you, but jumping the gun on this whole "who do I report this to?" doesn't excuse you from the responsibility of not freaking out. So I guess my next question for you is: who ARE you reporting this guy to? Authorities? USPS? Because I think getting his account on USPS suspended would do more good than crying wolf and giving the community another black eye, as per Dennis' most recent post.

My point is: don't be selfish and think about the bigger picture. What will get you results without screwing everyone over.


While I don't agree with D. Beard's latter statements regarding Marijuana, he and Dennis are after the same mindset I was when I first read the OP.