Boy Kills Giant Turtle

[homegrownherps]

As for the snake hunting, I very seldom agree with it... The fact that he went snake hunting does not mean that this kid is deranged... It means that he is uneducated on the importance of these reptiles and avenues of having venomous snakes relocated... If no public service is offered to relocate poisonous snakes, I do understand killing the reptiles in areas where humans could be bit... If snakes were not killed in mass numbers every day on roads or by most people that come across them, I may feel more inclined to support an occasional snake hunt within a healthy population...

Doubt this is going to change any views but it's my opinion based on some facts...

if he was "hunting" snakes why the hell did he kill that turtle ?
for food .....gimmie a break. he was a 14 year old kid looking for something to shoot at because he didn't find any snakes to kill. Is it even legal in that state to hunt snapping turtles?
Is it even legal for a 14 year old to be shooting a gun w/o supervision?
Did the law check to see if he even had a license to hunt.
I need a "hunting" license to catch a live snake in the road.

Running snakes over in the road has nothing to do with this, I have run snakes over..... when your doing 55 mph its pretty hard to just stop or swerve to avoid it.

The worst part is I can disagree with this all I want ...I know its not going to change a thing

 

[Junkyard]

This is a interesting discussion. Growing in the worst of the Los Angeles area, some folks find it necessary to hunt people. They call it population control. Seeing that is a whole other topic I will stop there.

I have known many people that cannot survive without hunting. A close friend of mine in Missouri, his family has been hunting deer probably since his ancestors settled there. Growing up, money was a serious issue, his father worked many hours and mother tended to the kids. The entire family pitched in when it came to food. Those that did not hunt, stayed home and worked in the 3 acre garden, lot a food, but they have a lot of family. When the boys were 16 they went hunting with the adult men, they stripped the deer themselves and nothing was wasted. They hunted on their own property, they had some 20 acres.

Do I condone hunting? For my friend's family, they did it because that was what they did to feed their family. It cost far less then going to the grocery store, along with the garden, figure how much money you would be saving your family. I figure for a family of 5, that is about $300 a month, it costs more to eat healthy then go to a fast food joint.

I lived in Idaho for a few years and seen many people hunt for sport, a lot of people would take their newly killed deer to a butcher or taxidermist and only take home the bust and about 20 pounds of meat. Sure they killed deer every year, but it cost more to have it mounted then to use it all for the family.

My thoughts are this, I will not interfere if someone wants to kill for food or sport. If they are killing just because, then I have an issue. Like the 300 pound muscle builder that use a shovel and beat the crud out of a 2 foot long garter snake then using the shovel like a guillotine they chop it up after it is dead just in case it survived 10 blows to the body. All because he was scared of it.

 

[Junkyard]

I don't know this kid's lifestyle, is it possible that the family does eat snapping turtles on a regular occasion and this is something he does with his father? Is it possible that killing snakes was something his father does for his mother, so he let the boy do it this time?

 

[scalesnstuff]

Hunting

Wow, this is an interesting thread. Homegrown Herps has his opinion and that is cool, that is why we live in America. I personally do not hunt. Going to the grocery store is easier and McDonald's is just as easy. If I was the kid that saw the snapping turtle I would have tried to catch it to look at.
But on the other hand this how they are raised. I used to live in a town of 30 people. I don't think my next door neighbor ever heard of a grocery store. Me and him used to get in it all the time. He tried to shoot my gator (it moved into my pond, though it was cool until he found out about), he ate a goat that he found walking around. For an animal lover he was your worst nightmare, everything with legs was a potential meal. But that was how he was raised, as long as he stayed off my property we were cool.

I watch TV and see some tribes eating Tarantulas, in Mexico they eat Iguanas. Do I believe in it, no. Will I sell a Tarantula or Iguana for food, no. But I have to remember that that is their culture and it is a normal everday thing for them. Anyone who keeps reptiles is looked at under scrutiny, I have had defax to my house 3 times now for inspection because I own a pet store and keep reptiles (our pet Uromastyx was a big concern because it had spikes). Now all of our animals our kept at the store. Does it tick me off because people don't see my point of view, yes. Do you think any family that eats snapping turtles sits there and says "John Doe does like me eating turtles and hunting, maybe I should stop" doubt it. They have the same view as us, they are not doing anything wrong.

Now, I have to admit that I hate the pointless killing of any animals especially reptiles, but instead of sitting back and griping about it. I actively go out and try to educate the public of the importance of reptiles in our area. We do on average 30 - 40 shows a year and I am approved by the Board of Education.

Now to finish this up, I do not hold a grudge against Homegrown Herps for their view. That is their opinion and he is entitled to it.

 

[sfaoldguy]

if he was "hunting" snakes why the hell did he kill that turtle ?
for food .....gimmie a break. he was a 14 year old kid looking for something to shoot at because he didn't find any snakes to kill. Is it even legal in that state to hunt snapping turtles?
Is it even legal for a 14 year old to be shooting a gun w/o supervision?
Did the law check to see if he even had a license to hunt.
I need a "hunting" license to catch a live snake in the road.

Running snakes over in the road has nothing to do with this, I have run snakes over..... when your doing 55 mph its pretty hard to just stop or swerve to avoid it.

The worst part is I can disagree with this all I want ...I know its not going to change a thing

The turtle was not what he was hunting but was a target of opportunity that presented itself...

For the literature I found in that state, I believe it is legal as stated in my previous post... No regulation usually means it is legal and can sustain moderate hunting levels or the state doesn't have an adequate conservation program... I believe the previous...

Whether it is legal or not, he should be supervised...

He probably does not need a liscense at that age, but that state may require him to take a hunter's education course like the one in Texas...

Snakes being run over in the road has a great deal to do with this... So many snakes are killed every day on hiways and roads that there populations are usually kept at relatively low levels where hunting snakes only increases the danger of the population reaching dangerously low levels... Snapping turtles do get killed on roads but not nearly as hi a number...

 

[sfaoldguy]

I do want to add that I respect your position on this homegrownherps...

For this specific animal, I would not have killed it because it obviously has good genes...

Scalesnstuff,
I love meeting people like you who have seen the great need for education and have stepped up to the its challenge...

 

[homegrownherps]

Snakes being run over in the road has a great deal to do with this... So many snakes are killed every day on hiways and roads that there populations are usually kept at relatively low levels where hunting snakes only increases the danger of the population reaching dangerously low levels... Snapping turtles do get killed on roads but not nearly as hi a number...

I don't see how road kill compares to someone purposely hunting something down and killing it. Most of the time hitting something in the road is unavoidable.

~~~~

I suppose there are many different aspects to "hunting" and we can go on and on about it for days. And I am sure we can all find valid points for each side.

Hunting to feed your family, maybe a job would take care of that.

I would just rather see them in the wild (while there are still some left) than on my plate or hanging on the wall.

I would not interfere if someone wants to kill for food or sport either, but I guess when given the chance I can vent how I feel about it. I respect others opinions, as we all have our own. It'd pretty bland if we all agreed on the same things.

 

[Junkyard]

Hunting to feed your family, maybe a job would take care of that.

I would just rather see them in the wild (while there are still some left) than on my plate or hanging on the wall.

I would not interfere if someone wants to kill for food or sport either, but I guess when given the chance I can vent how I feel about it. I respect others opinions, as we all have our own. It'd pretty bland if we all agreed on the same things.

If only the job paid enough to feed the family, until you know what they have gone through to do so, then it would be easier to understand. Sometimes, in writing, it does not help in that aspect.

Having different opinions is what makes this place so much fun, also a great place to voice our opinions.

 

[kmurphy]

In Maine, at least, there are no truely "wild" animals that are hunted or trapped. Deer, moose, beer and all the others are managed just like cattle. Cows are in the fields and the others are in the woods. If it is difficult winter, and the population suffered, they shorten the season. If the population increases they do the opposite. Like Homegrownherps I love seeing these animals in the wild. Just last weekend at camp we saw a bald eagle, bear, 3 deer, moose and plenty of smaller animals. Oh, and 5 wood turtles, one pair copulating. It was great to see them all.
I don't individualize them. They're not pets. The deer I shoot doesn't mean there are not going plenty to be see and enjoy in the off season. In reference to hunting. You get up at 4:30 am in November and it's dark and 10 below outside. You have bacon and eggs, grab a sandwich and hike into the woods. If there is snow you might track a deer that is probably 2 miles a head of you. If there's not then you sit under a tree and freeze your ass off. The nearest house is 10 miles away, and the nearest town 50 miles. But when you're out there, with the ravens cawing overhead, and the wind blowing through the trees, you feel like you're the only guy on the planet. And you really don't care if you ever see a deer.

 

[ms_terese]

Just last weekend at camp we saw a bald eagle, beer, 3 deer, moose and plenty of smaller animals.

I don't think I've ever seen wild beer...

 

[homegrownherps]

In Maine, at least, there are no truely "wild" animals that are hunted or trapped. Deer, moose, beer and all the others are managed just like cattle. Cows are in the fields and the others are in the woods. If it is difficult winter, and the population suffered, they shorten the season. If the population increases they do the opposite. Like Homegrownherps I love seeing these animals in the wild. Just last weekend at camp we saw a bald eagle, beer, 3 deer, moose and plenty of smaller animals. Oh, and 5 wood turtles, one pair copulating. It was great to see them all.
QUOTE]

There are still wild animals here - I hope it stays that way. BUT there are many who hunt here as well...so it wont be long.

Since we moved here about 2 years ago, we have had Wild Turkey, Deer, Fox, pass to thru or yard. not to mention all the regular smaller animals and reptiles. If I shoot them today , I wont be seeing them again.

Here in Florida they issue a few licences every year to poach ---I mean hunt gators.
They say if they don't they will "over popululate", but if they stop destroying the gators land it wont seem like they are over populated. every year they destroy more land and ALL they animals just get pushed together. so it seems like their over populating.

So when people start seeing more wildlife in their front yard, its not because theres more of it , it because the animals were pushed out of there own habitat and are forced to survive out of our garbage cans. Then they are labeled as a nuisance and then destroyed.

I bet money that if the "snowbirds" quite feeding the gators when they come down here, there would be less gator attackes

 

[kmurphy]

I don't think I've ever seen wild beer...

I not that common for me either. It was an exceptional weekend for wildlife.

 

[homegrownherps]

I not that common for me either. It was an exceptional weekend for wildlife.

usually travel in packs of 6 & 12 ....right

 

[kmurphy]

usually travel in packs of 6 & 12 ....right

I didn't notice that until you posted. I was trying to figure out what the hell you were talking about.

I hate not having the edit function.

 

[Griz]

I bet it's cheaper to BUY meat in the store - than to buy the ammo !
here's a challenge - hunt with a knife !

I live in the woods and would much rather see the wildlife alive than on my plate or hanging on the wall


AND some people in the south are simple minded.

Sorry Jim, but I for one do NOT respect your opinion on this. You want to cast dispersions towards those of us who hunt because you would rather see these animals in the their natural environment. YET, you have a house full of various exotic pets! Why is that Jim? It's fine for you to take these animals from their natural environment, place them in cages, for what? Your enjoyment and profit!

Yet, I am in the wrong because I take 6-8 deer per year to feed my family and several others. The deer I take are used exclusively for food, for decorations (yes, I have a rec room full of heads), and even warmth.

I cannot and will not respect someone's opinion when it is chocked full of hypocrisy. If you really want to take the tree hugger mentality then make sure that NOTHING you use is made from animals, tested on animals, are derived from the animal byproducts.

Land encroachment is going to happen no matter what we do. How many kids do you have Jim? If you even have one then you have thereby helped increase our population which leads to land encroachment. Oh that's right, this has nothing to do with you just everyone else.

I could stand here all day and show you the hypocrisy of your statements but I think you already know that your soapbox is made of cardboard at best. Good grief.....

Griz

PS The last buck I took I did it with a knife. No arrow, no rifle and no shotgun. Me against a raging hormonal buck that was ready to fight. I am still standing but he's in my freezer.

PSS Learn the definition of poaching.....

 

[hhmoore]

I don't think I've ever seen wild beer...

Truly wild populations were all but wiped out generations ago...the only "wild" specimens you will find today are those lost by irresponsible keepers. Now, I'm not a big fan of beer, but it saddens me to see their carcasses strewn about the countryside. Every once in a while, I happen across one still intact...I have adopted a program of relocation, but I fear that they are no better off than if I had just left them where I found them. (has anybody seen/done any studies on this?)

 

[homegrownherps]

Sorry Jim, but I for one do NOT respect your opinion on this. You want to cast dispersions towards those of us who hunt because you would rather see these animals in the their natural environment. YET, you have a house full of various exotic pets! Why is that Jim? It's fine for you to take these animals from their natural environment, place them in cages, for what? Your enjoyment and profit!

Yet, I am in the wrong because I take 6-8 deer per year to feed my family and several others. The deer I take are used exclusively for food, for decorations (yes, I have a rec room full of heads), and even warmth.

I cannot and will not respect someone's opinion when it is chocked full of hypocrisy. If you really want to take the tree hugger mentality then make sure that NOTHING you use is made from animals, tested on animals, are derived from the animal byproducts.

Land encroachment is going to happen no matter what we do. How many kids do you have Jim? If you even have one then you have thereby helped increase our population which leads to land encroachment. Oh that's right, this has nothing to do with you just everyone else.

I could stand here all day and show you the hypocrisy of your statements but I think you already know that your soapbox is made of cardboard at best. Good grief.....

Griz

PS The last buck I took I did it with a knife. No arrow, no rifle and no shotgun. Me against a raging hormonal buck that was ready to fight. I am still standing but he's in my freezer.

PSS Learn the definition of poaching.....

My whole stand in this is because of the SENSELESS HUNTING.
And for every reason you claim it has it is benifits, I can give you one why its not.

Do I care if you respect my opinion....NO .
And I feel the same about your opinion.

And maybe you better get your facts straight before you acuse me of something.
The reptiles I have in my care are STILL ALIVE, not on my plate, not in the freezer and not road kill on the side of the road. What I use them for is my business. The point is THEY ARE STILL ALIVE !
Besides the fact that none of them were taken from the wild.

Instead of killing them for food why don’t you get a job to support your family, maybe you should have thought out how you would support them BEFORE HAND. People capable of working should not have to kill anything to feed their families...stop using that for your excuse. Now-a days animals are bred specifically to be used for food. I bet if you sell just one your guns you can put food on the table for a month.

I cannot and will not respect someone's opinion when it is chocked full of hypocrisy. If you really want to take the tree hugger mentality then make sure that NOTHING you use is made from animals, tested on animals, are derived from the animal byproducts.

Your getting a little off the subject here...but I am talking about people going out and killing things. Some things are farm raised for human use. I am no tree hugger, but senseless hunting is ridicules, does it make you feel like real men or something, to kill something that is totally defenseless against your rifle?

Land encroachment is going to happen no matter what we do. How many kids do you have Jim? If you even have one then you have thereby helped increase our population which leads to land encroachment. Oh that's right, this has nothing to do with you just everyone else.

your right , people are going to hunt no matter what I think about, but I am entitled the think what I wish. And speak about it where ever I wish.
I have 5 acres here in N. Florida. Only a small portion of it was cleared for my home the rest remains untouched.
And unless you want me to sarcastic ...save your sarcasm for someone else.
If you can’t have a discussion w/o being rude or sarcastic then don’t bother.

PSS Learn the definition of poaching.....

This comment was made ....why ???

 

[ms_terese]

There is a very real consequence of overpopulation if deer hunting is to cease. Since there are no longer any natural predators in most of the US for deer (i.e., wolves), their populations would indeed get out of hand. Nature's way of handling that would be to allow the starvation and disease to take them. Myself, I would prefer responsible hunting in order to cull the population.

 

[homegrownherps]

There is a very real consequence of overpopulation if deer hunting is to cease. Since there are no longer any natural predators in most of the US for deer (i.e., wolves), their populations would indeed get out of hand. Nature's way of handling that would be to allow the starvation and disease to take them. Myself, I would prefer responsible hunting in order to cull the population.

I can agree on responsible hunting.
I would rather see a deer used to feed the needy rather than see them wasted away. But most ( not all of them....MOST ) hunters are not needy.

 

[Griz]

Jim, do you really read what you write? You sit there coming down on people for taking animals from their natural habitat but you have a household full of them. Yup, that makes perfect sense..... You really need to open your ears as this whole forum is laughing at that statement.

Jim, maybe you should be the one to go out and get a better job so you can afford to support yourself without using animal byproducts. Oh that's right, there's a difference in the value of animals. Only certain animals have rights to you. They are not all created equal now are they? Once again you are a hypocrite. Only the animals that someone else shoots on your behalf is ok to eat. Sorry Jim, but I am at least man enough to do it myself vs hiding behind the proverbial hypocritical curtain!

As for incomes, my hunting has nothing to do with my ability to provide for my family. Anytime you want to compare K1's let me know. I hunt for the enjoyment, for the meat, for the ability to do what my ancestors have done for centuries.

You would rather allow someone else to kill your food for you but then call those of us with bloody hands barbarians.

Your soapbox is starting to sag and everyone see's it......

Griz

PS I will respond more later...