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BRANDON AT REPTIRUS- REALLY BAD GUY.

Brittney purchased November 16; the poor little gecko arrived at her door November 20; Marcia takes possession the weekend of November 24-25 and posts today the 28th:

The female gecko has a very obvious pelvic deformity, a broken toe, and classic symptoms of hypo-calcemia (pre-MBD) as demonstrated by her shaking limbs when she walks.
Click to expand...

It's a damn shame, and now more interesing in light of Marcia's update, that the gecko went through 2 parties prior to shipping to Brittney without any of the 2 parties noticing an obvious pelvic deformity (obvious also in the photos posted), limb shaking and broken toe in the 4 days between puchase and delivery. Good grief, it's only been 8-9 days since the gecko was shipped, delivered to Brittany and turned over to Marcia!

Yeah, Brittany may have jumped the gun a bit with the BOI post, but it's not just about a refund. We all know Brandon was eager and willing to refund Brittany, and that's a good thing. It's also about competence. Brandon has stated he was not aware of any physical deformites/injuries/ailments while the gecko was in his care and before she left his care; Stepanie stated she also did not notice prior to her shipping. It was very clear to me that the gecko had a deformity of some sort in the photos that were posted, even if limb shaking and broken toe were not clear in a still shot.

If it is indeed the case that Brandon was not aware of any physical/genetic or husbandry-related ailments, and even posted photos of a for-sale reptile with a noticeable deformity, do I feel comfortable ordering from him?
Since I don't know Brandon (or anyone else involved) personally and have never seen his collection, set-up or husbandry habits, I would have to say no. He was right to quickly correspond to and refund Brittany. He was wrong & dishonest if he misrepresented the gecko. His competency may be questionable if he simply failed to notice obvious symptoms, deformities, injuries in a reptile in his care and sold/represented that reptile as a healthy breeder.

Again, a damn shame ... mostly for a pretty little gecko that has passed through 4 hands in 8 days and who's worth has diminished simply because she was injured or cared for improperly and now cannot turn the proper dollar.
Kudos to Marcia for taking her in; giving her proper care and attention.

~ Laura Bolt
 
Kelli, do you mean to tell us that this little gecko, the Mack Snow het Bell that Brandon sold and shipped to Brittney, had a broken pelvis and Pat and Brandon knew it all along? Hmmm...
Click to expand...

You know, I thought about that gecko from the start when I first saw this thread, but I was so sure that the problem with the female Mack was a congenital deformity. But you know what? It isn't hard to put two and two together and something tells me it's the exact same gecko, in which case yes, Brandon knew about the problem all along. If I am wrong I will be the first to admit it, as you know, but I just have this sinking feeling i'm not...
 
KelliH said:
Wait a iminute. Brandon, is that female the same Mack Snow Het Bell you got from Pat as a juvenile that you picked up from him in person, and then later on called him frantic because the gecko couldn't walk right? Then, Pat took it to the vet clinic where he worked and did some tests and/or an X-ray and it was found that the gecko had a broken pelvis? Is this female the same gecko as that??? Pat, any comments?
Click to expand...

Well THAT'S interesting...

Pat once told me about a broken leg with a hatchling Leopard Gecko that he sold to someone (Nevin). Evidently it was fine when it left his hands at the show and when it got back to Nevin's house it was hurt. Pat took back that gecko from my understanding.

By chance are you confusing Brandon and Nevin?
 
Pat once told me about a broken leg with a hatchling Leopard Gecko that he sold to someone (Nevin). Evidently it was fine when it left his hands at the show and when it got back to Nevin's house it was hurt. Pat took back that gecko from my understanding.[

By chance are you confusing Brandon and Nevin?
/QUOTE]

I don't think so, but I guess it's possible. My recollection is that it was Brandon that bought the gecko but it was a while back so it's possible (but not likely) that I was confused.
Click to expand...
 
Hmm, well being it's 2am here on the east coast I'm not too sure we'll hear from Brandon or Pat anytime soon. This certainly has peaked my interest though.
 
TripleMoonsExotic said:
By chance are you confusing Brandon and Nevin?
Click to expand...
There's one way to find out. I'll ask Nevin over at the "other" forum (who's name we cannot utter here on Fauna). This way, we'll find out about geckos with broken pelvis's AND broken legs.
 
Hmm, well being it's 2am here on the east coast I'm not too sure we'll hear from Brandon or Pat anytime soon. This certainly has peaked my interest though.
Click to expand...

Yeah, me too. Like I said, if I am wrong I will apologize, but even if it was Nevin instead of Brandon, could the gecko in question be the same gecko? I guess we'll have to wait until tomorrow for answers.
 
KelliH said:
Wait a iminute. Brandon, is that female the same Mack Snow Het Bell you got from Pat as a juvenile that you picked up from him in person, and then later on called him frantic because the gecko couldn't walk right? Then, Pat took it to the vet clinic where he worked and did some tests and/or an X-ray and it was found that the gecko had a broken pelvis? Is this female the same gecko as that??? Pat, any comments?
Click to expand...

Golden Gate Geckos said:
I did receive an update that Dr. Johnson, the vet that saw the female gecko soon after Brittney received her, had the Radiologist take a look at both sets of x-rays. The radiologist confirmed that the deformity to the gecko's hip/pelvis is due to a previous pelvic fracture that has healed, and that the gecko should not be bred. I have sent copies of these reports to Brandon, and have them in case anyone is else is interested.
Click to expand...


If Kelli remembers correctly, Wow! What are the odds of two pelvic fractures in different geckos from the same breeder?
 
Dennis Hultman said:
What are the odds of two pelvic fractures in different geckos from the same breeder?
Click to expand...
The odds are very slim. Especially since the geckos were described as Mack Snow het Bells. Not many Mack Snow het Bells have fractured legs/hips/pelvis from the same source.
 
Its 6Am here, I just got home from work and I am pretty exhausted so I will make this short and sweet. Ive never had any problems with any geckos from Pat, so to answer your question Kelli, no it is not the same gecko Pat talked to you on the phone about, and it wasnt even a gecko that he sold to me that he talked to you about. I picked this gecko up from Pat at a show along with a Mack het Blizzard male. I can assure you that this gecko did not suffer a broken pelvis, or any other broken bone in my care. At this point I am to tried to go back threw all the previous posts and quote everyones questions, but I will address those that I remember off top of my head at this moment. The gecko was never pinched in a rack, Ive never even seen a gecko get close to being pinched. The gecko was definitely not stepped on. I dont remember the other things Marcia listed, but it was definitely not any of those either. This gecko has always had a very sweet temperment, has never tried to excape her 15 qt or anything like that. I dont even use any heavy objects in the enclosures to drop on her as Marcia said might have been a posibility. The heaviest object by far are the food and water bowls, and ive never dropped any of them. It would be impossible for the gecko to drop either of them on herself so that is also ruled out. As far as the broken toe, I talked to Marcia about it, and she pointed out something to me. As I said I am a new breeder, Marcia pointed out that the 6 inch deli cups that I shipped the 2 geckos in are to large to ship leopard geckos in, and that most likely she did break her toe on the way due to sliding around in her cup. There is nothing to do about the toe, it will heal on its own. So out of those ordeal, I did learn that I do a fine job packing my boxes, but that I need to use a smaller Deli cup to help prevent shipping injuries. Thank you once again Marcia for all of your help.
 
OK Brandon, my apologies. I must have gotten you confused with Nevin, and for that I am very sorry. I jumped the gun.
 
reptirus said:
Its 6Am here, I just got home from work and I am pretty exhausted so I will make this short and sweet. Ive never had any problems with any geckos from Pat, so to answer your question Kelli, no it is not the same gecko Pat talked to you on the phone about, and it wasnt even a gecko that he sold to me that he talked to you about. I picked this gecko up from Pat at a show along with a Mack het Blizzard male. I can assure you that this gecko did not suffer a broken pelvis, or any other broken bone in my care. At this point I am to tried to go back threw all the previous posts and quote everyones questions, but I will address those that I remember off top of my head at this moment. The gecko was never pinched in a rack, Ive never even seen a gecko get close to being pinched. The gecko was definitely not stepped on. I dont remember the other things Marcia listed, but it was definitely not any of those either. This gecko has always had a very sweet temperment, has never tried to excape her 15 qt or anything like that. I dont even use any heavy objects in the enclosures to drop on her as Marcia said might have been a posibility. The heaviest object by far are the food and water bowls, and ive never dropped any of them. It would be impossible for the gecko to drop either of them on herself so that is also ruled out. As far as the broken toe, I talked to Marcia about it, and she pointed out something to me. As I said I am a new breeder, Marcia pointed out that the 6 inch deli cups that I shipped the 2 geckos in are to large to ship leopard geckos in, and that most likely she did break her toe on the way due to sliding around in her cup. There is nothing to do about the toe, it will heal on its own. So out of those ordeal, I did learn that I do a fine job packing my boxes, but that I need to use a smaller Deli cup to help prevent shipping injuries. Thank you once again Marcia for all of your help.
Click to expand...


Brandon, you had this gecko since she was 15 grams didn't you? I'm not sure how old she would have been then, but somewhere, either in your care or in the original breeders care, she had an accident. Now, a broken pelvis is quite an injury and i'm not to sure how it could be missed. Is there anyone here who's had a leo with a broken pelvis? I don't mean healed, as in this case, but a fresh injury. Maybe someone can shed some light on how badly their gecko was affected by it?
 
reptirus said:
I can assure you that this gecko did not suffer a broken pelvis, or any other broken bone in my care.
Click to expand...

Your assurance is in direct conflict with a qualified veterinarian and a radiologist diagnosis. Four people noticed this deformity in a very brief time span. One is a vet, one is a radiologist, one is a highly qualified keeper and breeder of the species, and one is fairly a newb to the hobby. Several folks just looking at the pic and not knowing what to look for pinpointed and identified the obvious deformity.

If the injury didn't occur in your care or in Pats care then where did it occur?
 
snake5007 said:
Brandon, you had this gecko since she was 15 grams didn't you? I'm not sure how old she would have been then, but somewhere, either in your care or in the original breeders care, she had an accident. Now, a broken pelvis is quite an injury and i'm not to sure how it could be missed. Is there anyone here who's had a leo with a broken pelvis? I don't mean healed, as in this case, but a fresh injury. Maybe someone can shed some light on how badly their gecko was affected by it?
Click to expand...


She would have to have been in so much pain. Possibly unable to move, not eating or dragging herself around instead of walking normally. I too would like to know if it's possible to miss such an injury?

How many leos do you keep Brandon? Is it possible to post pics of your leos in their cages?

*this is in NO way an accusation*
 
As stated before the gecko left here last year at 15 grams, and was sold to brandon in perfect condition. While here she had the proper supplementation and was housed alone since hatching. The only time the gecko left the tub was for cleaning and to be delivered personally to brandon, and at neither of these events was there any sort of trauma induced to the gecko.
I would appreciate if the accusations about me would case for the only part i have in this case is hatching the gecko. At no point was a contacted by brandon of any sort of problem about this gecko in the year it was in his care. I also offered my vet to anaylze the gecko when it made it to the east coast just to help this situation out. So i dont appreciate being accused of "foul play" when I work hard to produce and maintain quality animals.
 
Sorry Pat, but if Brandon's saying that it didn't happen in his care then people are bound to make assumptions and ask questions. No one is blaming you or impying that you sold a gecko in that condition.
 
deborahbroadus said:
She would have to have been in so much pain. Possibly unable to move, not eating or dragging herself around instead of walking normally. I too would like to know if it's possible to miss such an injury?

How many leos do you keep Brandon? Is it possible to post pics of your leos in their cages?

*this is in NO way an accusation*
Click to expand...


That's what i was thinking Deborah. Who could miss an animanot being able to walk properly? :shrug01:
 
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