BRANDON AT REPTIRUS- REALLY BAD GUY.

[KelliH]

Didn't Brittney's vet say it was an old, healed break? I think that's what is so perplexing about the situation: how could an injury like that one be missed? It just doesn't make sense. Does it?

 

[deborahbroadus]

Didn't Brittney's vet say it was an old, healed break? I think that's what is so perplexing about the situation: how could an injury like that one be missed? It just doesn't make sense. Does it?

Two breeders, both saying the animal was in perfect health when it left their possession. Brandon gave a possible cause for the broken toe, but apparently, this animal has sustained very traumatic injuries out of thin air that managed to magically heal before arriving at Brittany!

I am not being sarcastic, this is what I am putting together from the stories.

 

[Golden Gate Geckos]

I sent this PM to Nevin last night, and haven't heard back from him yet:

Hi Nevin,

Did you ever purchase a gecko from Pat Kline? If so, was there ever one with a broken leg?

Thanks!
Marcia

This entire situation has been a roller-coaster of conflict, emotions, and unanswered questions. Here are a few that only Brandon can answer:

1. This gecko in my temporary care, had a broken pelvis at some point that has since healed. When and how did it happen?

2. As stated in this thread, this female has an obvious physical defect... the result of a traumatic past injury. Why was it immediately noticed by the 'newbie' that bought her and took her out of the box, and escaped notice by the 'breeder(s)' that sold and her?

3. If it was noticed, why wasn't it disclosed prior to selling her?

4. I have had a few PM's and emails from people who would love to adopt this beautiful, gentle little gecko. What is to become of her when Brandon gets her back?

5. Lastly, something that is really aggravating me. Why is Stephanie Kunder acting as Brandon's spokesperson? IMO, this is hindering this situation.

 

[Golden Gate Geckos]

OK, I received this response from the PM I sent Nevin:

Re: question...

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

yeah, it was kinda wierd. shes doing great now. when i got her she seemed perfictly fine. when i got home i was "inspecting" her as i do with any new animal. and that when i noticed it. i called him, and met up with him again. i had no problem keeping her i just wanted him to take care of any med bills. we ended up tossing it up to the ride home from when i picked her up. shes perfictly fine, and going on her second breeding season. may i ask why you were wandering?

and your welcom
nevin

 

[critical bill]

As stated before the gecko left here last year at 15 grams, and was sold to brandon in perfect condition. While here she had the proper supplementation and was housed alone since hatching. The only time the gecko left the tub was for cleaning and to be delivered personally to brandon, and at neither of these events was there any sort of trauma induced to the gecko.
I would appreciate if the accusations about me would case for the only part i have in this case is hatching the gecko. At no point was a contacted by brandon of any sort of problem about this gecko in the year it was in his care. I also offered my vet to anaylze the gecko when it made it to the east coast just to help this situation out. So i dont appreciate being accused of "foul play" when I work hard to produce and maintain quality animals.

No one has directly accused you of foul play. It is not like anyone is accusing you of intentionally harming this animal. The bottom line is that this animal sustained an injury that is well healed and can date back to a time when it was either in your care or more likely Brandons care. You both deny having anything to do with the injury and that simply does not jive with expert opinion.

Personally I am more inclined to think the gecko sustained the injury while in Brandon's care. If he had noticed the injury after he purchased the gecko from you I would think that he would have certainly contacted you about it as Brittney did with him. This was to be a breeding project for him down the line so to me it makes sense you would have been notified.

So long as Brandon is unwilling to accept the possibility that this injury may have happened in his care the thought process will continue that one of you is simply lying. This is not an injury that can be missed. It was not missed by even the most inexperienced of folks in the hobby. Folks that don't even keep geckos or even know what to look for accept for an oddity in the body structure of gecko appearing in some poorly taken photographs. It is that obvious an injury to detect.

Bottom line.....someone need to stop with the denial and accept that this injury did not occur simply out of the blue. To continue on that path is to insult the intelligence of some respected gecko keepers and breeders.

 

[snake5007]

I agree entirely with your post, Chuck.

 

[deborahbroadus]

You can say that again!

Bottom line.....someone need to stop with the denial and accept that this injury did not occur simply out of the blue. To continue on that path is to insult the intelligence of some respected gecko keepers and breeders.
__________________
Chuck Kimmel
A picture of my daughter, Princess Leia: @(-_-)@

 

[Serafim]

On target as usual Chuck

 

[critical bill]

I have my moments.

 

[Golden Gate Geckos]

vBulletin Message



You must spread some karma around before giving it to critical bill again.

​

 

[KelliH]

Great post Chuck.

Pat, no one is accusing you of foul play, we are only trying to get to the bottom of the mystery of how this gecko could have had this injury for so long and it never be noticed. I completely jumped the gun on bringing up the unrelated situation with Nevin (who I mistakingly remembered as being Brandon), and again, I apologize for bringing it up before confirming it.

 

[Golden Gate Geckos]

Well, it looks like Brandon may not post any answers here, so I'm going to post my latest correspondence with him via PM. So, has anything really been answered?

Hey you guys, what's up with all this 'new' info about the little Mack het Bell female that I've been busting my ass to help? You know, the one with the fractured pelvis? The one that you guys KNEW about and then pretended you didn't? The one that got sold to a newbie in the business that at least had the presence of mind to notice the problem and take her to a vet?

So, what's to become of this beautiful, gentle little gecko now? How are you going to make it up to her... or Brittney... or the rest of us?

I am beside myself right now!!!

Marcia

I read this message when I got home from work this morning. You had me so angered by it I couldnt even respond. I desided to take a step back and sleep on it. I respect you very highly, but this was extremely uncalled for. I am giving you my word that this gecko was never injured in my care, I am also giving you my word that I was never told of any injuries this gecko has sustained prior to comming into my care. Seriously between the 2 of us, what are the chances that this diagnoses was incorrect? I am giving you my word that this gecko didnt suffer a broken pelvis when in my care, and I really hope that Pat didnt sell me a gecko that had broken its pelvis in his care... So how can we be sure that who ever looked at this x ray new exactly 100% that they are seeing a healed broken bone? I understand you are concerned and upset for this gecko causing you to be alittle edgy, but please put yourself in my situation. I am being accused of all this stuff, being poked and proded. What do I do? I have already told everyone everything I know. Answered numberous questions. No one is going to be happy until my name is driven totally to the ground. This is all getting rediculous, I have no clue how to even handle it anymore.

__________________
Brandon Weibley
Repti-R-Us
[email protected]
(717)965-5294

So before I respond to his PM, I'd like to know who wrote it. Brandon? or Steph? I am seeing some inconsistencies as well as similarities between writing styles here.

Brandon, (or Steph), 2 complete sets of x-rays were taken. Two separate vets, one a radiologist, concurred that the obvious hip/pelvic deformity on the little gecko is the result of a past pelvic fracture. Do you want me to have those radiographs sent over for MY vet to give even yet a third opinion?

I don't understand WHY you are in such denial about this gecko having a pre-existing defect that is apparently obvious to everyone but you and Steph, who first claimed she did nothing more than put a heat-pack in the box and seal it up... and then turned around and said she saw nothing wrong with the gecko when she looked at it and packed it.

You say you don't know how to handle it anymore? Well, I don't know how to handle all this BS I am having flung at me!

HOW IS IT YOU DIDN'T NOTICE THE PELVIC DEFORMITY ON THIS GECKO????

 

[kmurphy]

Marcia, Is it completely out of the question that the injury could have gone unnoticed? Keep in mind that I don't know much about geckos and haven't seen the animal. So it really is just a question. Could Brandon have simply missed it?

 

[bleeding_sarcasm]

I havent gotten all the way through this thread yet [only one page 3] and the issue of someone else shipping the package. He offers live-arrival guarantee on his packages. That means he is offering to guarantee what Stephanie ships, I dont see what problem there is here? I am pretty experienced in shipping, and I frequently ship animals out for local friends who I sell consignment for, or who dont have experience in this department. If I sell from them, then I also guarantee in good faith that their animals are healthy, feeding, etc, as is outlined in our Terms.

So far I agree with everything Marcia and Kelli have said. I have also purchased and received a gecko with this deformity, the seller was prompt in the refund of animal cost [since other animals were shipped in the same package, I did not expect refund of shipping costs] and so I was satisfied with the transaction. I late adopted the animal out "pet quality" not too long ago, with the stipulation that it would not be used for breeding. I never took it to the vet, but it seemed obvious to me that it was probably a congenial defect.

 

[LadyGecko]

From the viewpoint of a long time Gecko Keeper and customer of many Breeders/Sellers over the years-

If the seller was truly unaware of any problems with this gecko then I think that speaks volumes about the care and husbandry of their animals

The idea of having a third professional put this gecko through more stress with another examination and x-rays because the seller is unwilling to believe two separate findings from professionals-not to mention the observations of someone as qualified as Marcia is just ridiculous

As a person that has had a similar situation with a Leo that I received with a obvious deformed front leg that the seller refused to admit that was ever noticed by her or anyone in her facility-I can only shake my head and wonder what exactly is going on ??



Just my 2 cents.........

Sandy

 

[Golden Gate Geckos]

Marcia, Is it completely out of the question that the injury could have gone unnoticed? Keep in mind that I don't know much about geckos and haven't seen the animal. So it really is just a question. Could Brandon have simply missed it?

I honestly don't see how Brandon could have missed it. To me, if a 'newbie' noticed it right out of the shipping box... so much so that she was compelled to take the gecko to a vet, then I don't understand how it could have been overlooked by the person who has cared for this gecko since she was 15 grams. I guess we're never going to know.

 

[reptirus]

Since it looks like I may not post any answers here? Have you read what I have been posting? any answer to any question you got in that PM, have already been answered here. This is getting pretty ridiculous now. I write my own responses, I dont have anyone write them for me. I am leaving now for work so I will not even get to read any of this until 5AM, so do me a favor and dont give me 27 more pages to come home to....

Well, it looks like Brandon may not post any answers here, so I'm going to post my latest correspondence with him via PM. So, has anything really been answered?


So before I respond to his PM, I'd like to know who wrote it. Brandon? or Steph? I am seeing some inconsistencies as well as similarities between writing styles here.

Brandon, (or Steph), 2 complete sets of x-rays were taken. Two separate vets, one a radiologist, concurred that the obvious hip/pelvic deformity on the little gecko is the result of a past pelvic fracture. Do you want me to have those radiographs sent over for MY vet to give even yet a third opinion?

I don't understand WHY you are in such denial about this gecko having a pre-existing defect that is apparently obvious to everyone but you and Steph, who first claimed she did nothing more than put a heat-pack in the box and seal it up... and then turned around and said she saw nothing wrong with the gecko when she looked at it and packed it.

You say you don't know how to handle it anymore? Well, I don't know how to handle all this BS I am having flung at me!

HOW IS IT YOU DIDN'T NOTICE THE PELVIC DEFORMITY ON THIS GECKO????

 

[moyers monsters]

HI EVERY BODY!!! ITS ME NEVIN!!!!

ok heres everything i have to say!!!!

number one. i DO NOT appriceate being brought into this thread with the attitude that i had aimed at me, by steph.

number two. that gecko that Kelli brought up...i still have her, her name is snowey infact, she is 58g as of right now, and is going into her 2nd breeding season. i got her when she was 11grams. here is the short story between me and pat Kline.

i met him to pick up the gecko

when i got her home as i do with any animal, i did a 110% final inspection of her so that if something happens in the future, i notice immediately.

upon that inspection, i noticed she was walking somewhat awkward. there seemed to be a "fold" on her calf area. i called pat right away, and we met a second time in that day.
here is a picture and if you look at her right hind leg, you can somewhat see the problem. there was nothing with the hip. the very small problem was between the knee and ankle.

i had no problem keeping her, i just did not want to pay the vet bills. we both decided that she was acting fine, and we would give it a day or two to see how she acts. as soon as i got her home the second time, she was eating like a monster. i keep records of my animals until they are ready to breed, then i constantly check on them. she was 40grams by the time she was 4 months old. on her first season she produced 4 clutches 3 of which were firtile. heres some more pics of her
here she is eating a female silk moth

here she is with pixy stix my lav bell. also from pat.

and here is 2 recent pics of her

next, i have my own personal problems with brandon and steph. these problems have nothing to do with what i am going to say next.

as others have said, there are obviously problems with the gecko that did not happen over night during shipping. i want to know how ANYONE could have missed these problems. that just doesn't make sense. second, steph has all those emails posted, and in my own oppinion, it seems like there are some emails missing on brandond's side (this may have been corrected, but i didn't see it). if any breeder, no matter how big did this, i would have a problem with them. even if it was a personal friend. i would have to question there ethics. Ive been doing this for about 8 years, and i never had a problem with a sick animal. and if i had a complaint i would do everything in my power to fix it before i questioned the person complaining. i don't have a guarantee with my animals, because if there is a problem i fix it with out question. (that is unless its like the 4th animal you bought from me, then there is probably a problem with what you are doing. thats neather here nor there though). i do not think there is a problem with Britt jumping the gun and coming right here. that original problem should have been fixed the first time they spoke on the phone. if i were in Britt's shoes i would be cursing the breeder up and down to everyone i know.

I'm doing this mainly to clear pats name. it doesn't make sense to blame it on pat if brandon got this animal at 16gs, and is now showing the problems as an adult. maybe, and i do emphasize on MAYBE the broken pelvis, but not the other problems. HOW CAN ANYONE MISS THOSE OBVIOUS PROBLEMS. and I'm not talking about in the pictures that were sent back to brandon. those problems had to be obvious when they were in any ones possesion.

as far as I'm concerned neather pat or my self should have been brought into this conversation.

thats just my 2 cents. agree with it or not.

Nevin

 

[kmurphy]

as far as I'm concerned neather pat or my self should have been brought into this conversation.

You were brought into the thread by mistake, for which an apology has already been given. Now you've brought yourself in unecessarily.

Pat brought himself into the thread by posting and as the breeder of the animal in question.

Stephanie stated the exact same thing you did about your transaction with Pat and her post was only an attempt to see if Kelli was confused, which it turned out she was.

 

[snake5007]

At first, there were three possibilities for what the lump could be. Now there is only one and IMO, one that somebody couldn't help noticing unless they were blind. If the gecko didn't get treatment for the fracture, how well would it have healed? You might be able to tell if the fracture was left to heal on it's own or whether it had some help.