Chad Horne AKA www.Arabesqueboa.com

[KCRD.com]

Approximately 5 years ago I traded a beautiful pair of sub-adult Jayapura Green Tree Pythons to a Chad Horne from Phoenix, AZ for a baby Genetic Striped Boa. At the time Chad was operating under the business name CNC Reptiles. The way the trade was worked out I agreed to ship my chondros first since I was fairly new to the business and assumed since I instigated the trade I would ship first anyhow. Chad agreed to ship out the boa once he received my snakes the following day. I shipped my snakes to him and as scheduled Chad received them in great shape and on time. He then shipped out the boa to me the next day. The problem was, Chad had DHL, Airborne Express at the time, pick up the boa around early afternoon and the snake sat in the currier's van all day. All of this was documented via' Airbornes website. The snake showed up to my house the next morning on time but as the currier handed me the box he said I think there is something dead in that box as the smell that was coming from it was horrific!

The snake was indeed dead and after several emails, calls, and conversations, Chad explained that he had completed his end of the deal and was done. And that was that. In fact up until about a week ago I thought he was out of the business until I found him posting on the new Reptster.com forums.

Chad admitted in the forum that was him and via' private messages he admitted that he did the trade deal with me. He also admitted that his view was that he didn't need to make right on the deal.

I know at this point I will probably never see anything for the stolen Green Trees, but I at least wanted to let everyone know that the liar, thief, and crook is back under a different business name and ALL should be aware of dealing with him.

I posted this story years ago when it originally happened here on the BOI and the thread is no longer around for some reason but I have posted a link to the Bob Clark Forum that references my problems with him.

http://forums.bobclark.com/showthread.php?t=16357&highlight=Chad+Horne

Please be aware of this guy, he has a known history of ripping people off!

 

[Arabesqueboa.com]

This is Chad Horne, and yes I did do a deal with Jason Hormann some time ago. I will post the truth of what actually happened for all who want to hear it. Jason and I did agree on the trade except Jason left out the part he told me over the phone that when the package was dropped off at his front door step his mother or mother in law found the package outside a few hours later. Jason was at work at the time, and she then put the package in the basement until Jason got home from work 6-7 hours later. That was his word for word phone call to me, its really interesting how all of a sudden he was home to recieve the package and spoke the driver, LOL! So obvioulsy he plans to say what ever comes to mind to make me look like the crook. Jason had many things to say years ago, he obviously still doesn't take any responsibility for his part in the snakes death. Under the circumstances I wasn't in the wrong, I tried to meet Jason half way and resolve the issue but he wanted nothing to do with it. I have always used Chad Horne or Chad Horne Reptiles in the forums or had my name attached to my signiture. So there's no hiding from me. After many emails exchanged with Jason, I was done, you can't please every customer even when they are wrong. I still operate using Chad Horne and have sold boas to many satisfied customers over the last five years. This is all im posting on such a rediculous post about lies. The events that took place have magically changed, and its clear Jason will continue to do so.

 

[Arabesqueboa.com]

Oh I almost forgot:

Thank You,
Chad Horne
Arabesqueboa.com Home Of Chad Horne Reptiles

 

[KCRD.com]

As I mentioned in the original post, I don't expect this to get rectified. He hasn't done anything about it yet, so I don't think it's going to happen now. This is going to get turned into a giant he said she said argument so more than anything I just wanted all to be aware of what he is capable of doing.

There is no way in the world I would not be available for a package that had a live animal in it the morning it was to be delivered. If I remember correctly you to me to "get fucked" over the phone when I asked if we could meet in the middle on something. So if that was your way to "work things out" then that doesn't surprise me after the way you handled to DOA.

 

[McLovin]

I clicked on the link and read it. I"m sorry about what happened but do you have a link showing that you sent an e-mail right after for proof of time, phone records or is it another he said she said thing and you can't prove nothing??? Not that I don't believe you but proof is everything though and something of that importance would never be erased IMO. I just did a quick search on Chad Horne and couldn't find anything but this thread. You mentioned your thread was erased, was all the threads about Chad erased as well cuz I'm pretty sure he had a litter or two last year (albinos maybe) posted on ks and still no inquiries or bad things about him. Just don't know on this one
Bob Delaune

 

[Amelanistic Orca]

I feel compelled to mention that I have done business personally here in Az. with Mr. Horne and received nothing but absolute professionalism and one helluva het albino from him about a year ago.. Find this a little hard to swallow.. And for what it's worth.... A snake/reptile/lizard? is a very very fragile life, YES, they are!!! And yes, they can die in ten minutes in the wrong weather or even worse, human hands..... Five years later is kinda strange to me tooo.. Why, soooo long???

 

[KCRD.com]

You know I just remembered that I backed up all of the emails from this transaction on a yahoo account. I will begin posting them in chronological order.

Here is the earliest email I have from the transaction, if you scroll down to the bottom you will see my initial offer.

Jason, well the parents were Het for stripe. Whenever is good for you to ship is fine, sooner the better though of course. GTPs are one of my favorites. My shipping address is:
Chad Horne
4026 E. Tether Trail,
Phoenix Arizona 85050

Its to a private residence, go ahead and email me your shipping info when you send the GTPs, and like I said Ill plan on shipping the stripe the following day I recieve yours. Great, If you could overnite them for delivery on thursday that would be great! Let me know, Thanks, Chad.

Elizabeth&Jason Hormann <[email protected]> wrote:

Chris,
Thanks for the pics! She looks great! One last question, this is a genetic stripe, right? The box that I will ship the GTP's in, is 10" x 10"x 10". Just let me know when you want the GTP's sent out.

Thanks,
Jason

Chad Horne <[email protected]> wrote:

Jason, did you get the pics? Chad CNCREPTILES

Elizabeth&Jason Hormann <[email protected]> wrote:

Chad,
I will ship them via' Airborne Express overnite. I have no problem shipping them first, you seem like a reputible person. I would only ask that before I ship them, would you please send me a recent picture of her again, so that I can make any last minute descisions. What year was she born, what is she currently eating, how long is she? Also, do you have pictures of her parents? Thank you for deciding to do the deal with me.

Thanks,
Jason

Chad Horne <[email protected]> wrote:

Jason, if I decided to do the trade with you for the GTPs whats your plan of shipment? What provider ect.ect. I will be using fedex overnite express. I will need you to ship your snakes first, as soon as I recieve them the following day I will overnite the stripe. Those are my terms, let me know. But yes I would like to do the trade for the GTPs, we'll just need to figure out a day to ship our snakes, if thats okay with you.Thanks, Chad, CNCREPTILES

Elizabeth&Jason Hormann <[email protected]> wrote:

Have you made any choices yet corncerning the boa?

Thanks,
Jason

Chad Horne <[email protected]> wrote:

Sorry about not responding, I kinda got bumrushed with about 20 offers. Im trying to decied what to do. Your offer is in the top choices though, ill be in touch either or. Thanks, CNCREPTILES

Elizabeth&Jason Hormann <[email protected]> wrote:

Chad,

I was wondering if you had received my email with the pics of the GTP's?

Thanks,
Jason

d Horne <[email protected]> wrote:

How large are they, how long have you had them ect. Aru? GTPS? Alittle more info.

[email protected] wrote:

Was wanting to know if you were interested in trading for a pair of GTP's that are handable and eating frozen thawed rats/mice. They will breed next year.

 

[KCRD.com]

Jason, Hey did you get my email I sent the other day? Let me know if you still want to do the trade.Thanks Chad CNCREPTILES

Elizabeth&Jason Hormann <[email protected]> wrote:

Chris,
Thanks for the pics! She looks great! One last question, this is a genetic stripe, right? The box that I will ship the GTP's in, is 10" x 10"x 10". Just let me know when you want the GTP's sent out.

Thanks,
Jason

 

[KCRD.com]

Chad gets the snakes....

Jason, Hey I just got home from work, my wife got the package this morning at 10 am. I couldnt wait to get home and see them. Well I just took a peek in the bags, everything with the shipping worked out fine and the snakes look great!!!!!!! I just love GTPs. Thank you again for making the trade, GTPs were one of the first snakes Ive always wanted, but I got to involved in breeding boas. Anyways, there great so far. Ill email you tonight to let you know when ill be mailing the snakes, if I can get them out tommorow I will. If not then for sure a friday pick up. I'll let you know tonight, Thanks again. Chad, CNCREPTILES

Elizabeth&Jason Hormann <[email protected]> wrote:

Chad,

I just got a notice from Airborne Express that you recieved the package this morning! How do you like them? Did everything go well in shipping? Please let me know ASAP what you think of you new GTP's, as a well as when you plan to ship out the boa. I will have someone here to recieve the package on Thursaday and Friday. I hope you got the email I sent you with their feeding records, I hadn't heard from you so I wasn't sure. If not let me know and I will resend the information.

Thanks,
Jason

 

[KCRD.com]

Chad schedules pick up for 7am in Phoenix, AZ!

Jason, I went ahead and scheduled a pick up for 7 am tommorrow, I tried to make a pick up tonight, but they said it was to late for a pick up. So tommorow at 7am, express. Ill email you the tracking number in the morning. Chad, CNCREPTILES

 

[KCRD.com]

Snakes are picked up and start the cooking process...

Jason, they were late picking up the snake. It was around 10:30 am, so be expecting them before 12 friday. The tracking # is 5022226661, let me know when you get it. Thanks agian. Chad, CNCREPTILES

Elizabeth&Jason Hormann <[email protected]> wrote:

That sounds GREAT! I glad you like the GTP's. I'm anxious to get the boa as well.

Thanks again!
Jason

 

[KCRD.com]

Jason, I dont remember if I gave you the tracking number #5022226661, email me when you get it and let me know if everything is okay with the package. The green trees are doing great, I love them already. There already taking presidence over my other snakes! Chad, CNCREPTILES

 

[KCRD.com]

DEAD BOA!

Below is a copy of the mesage you sent to CNCREPTILES

Chad,

This is Jason Hormann, I am emailing you from work because I will be
here until late tonight. Please respond to this email concerning the
Striped Boa that was dead when I recieved it today. I had originally
asked you to call me on my cell phone, but my battery is dead. You can
still call and leave me a message as to what you would like to do. I'll
be looking forward to your emails.

Thanks,
Jason Hormann

 

[KCRD.com]

Chad begins to turn the screws.....

Jason, Hey sorry for not getting back to you sooner. I brought the snake to a reptile vet in town to get it checked out, the vet did his work and the only thing he said was the snake didn't seem to have anything wrong with it, just a normal snake that died. I told him the whole story about the shipping, weather, arrival etc. And what we came upon was the fact that the snake was shipped healthy by myself, used a known shipper (Airborne Express), which was used successfully before. To my knowledge the snake was shipped and delivered alive. Until you opened the box, no body including my self knows the snake was dead or alive, both me and you have no way of knowing when, where it died?? But there is only one piece of information that I have to express, when I talked to you on the phone the day of the arrival, you stated "Your mother who was watching your children, while you were at work, recieved the package and brought it down to your basement, temp. controlled, where you keep your other snakes, reptiles." "2 hours later, you arrived home and opened the box, which didn't appear damaged. To find one dead female striped redtail baby boa." My only concern in my best interest would be to state, no one including you or me knows if the snake died before it reached your house or the 2 hour time frame in which it sat waiting before you got off work. It would be a different situation if you were to have told me you opened the package as soon as it arrived and the snake were dead. That was not the case though, the 2 Hour time frame is the unknown, theres so many different possibilites of the snakes death, but this one im not responsible for. Im not at fault and im not stating you are either, but someone has to take responsibility for an error which did happen and I did everything in my power to make sure it arrived alive and healthy. Im not sure what you want to do? im emailing you instead of calling to save us both from having a hostile conversation on the phone, if I were in your shoes I would be angry about the whole situation, beacause the snake died and I have both of your snakes. The only thing I can say is there were no errors on my part of the deal, just one error on yours for not opening the package when it arrived alive OR dead, theres no way of knowing because there was a 2 hour time frame where it sat. If you would like to email me back I would like to resolve this best as can under all curcumstances, Im an honest bussiness man who would like to have all parties happy about the deal, but I did lose a stripe boa with a value of $1000.00 for no error on my part. Thanks, Chad CNCREPTILES

Elizabeth&Jason Hormann <[email protected]> wrote:

Chad,

I noticed that you got the snake bright and early yesterday morning.Please let me know what you find out from the vet, also let me know ASAP what you want to do with our deal.

Thanks,
Jason

 

[KCRD.com]

Chad tries to pass the buck....

Jason, First off I never said you were getting screwed on the deal, all I said was the 2 hour waiting period is a big deal. I dont mean 2 hours the snake could have died, I mean no one knows if the snake arrived dead DOA, or if it were alive. It would be a totally different situation if you had said you opened the package as soon and it arrived and the snake was dead, then in my eyes im a more fault than you. But you didn't say that, so basically you don't want to take any blame at all? You didn't recieve the snake dead, you weren't handed a box from the airborne carrier. you weren't even home. Like I said before this is not my fault or is it your fault, but the snake died, oh and by the way was in PERFECT health, and theres one peice of info that troubles me, you not opening the package upon imediate arrival. As far as you calling breeder friends of yours, thats fine, my associates keep saying to me "he does not know if it arrived dead or alive, thats the missing piece, he doesn't know." So Im susposed to get screwed because you wont take any credit on the fact of it sitting in your basement for 2 hours? You said in your email " Even if the snake had died after it were dropped off, there is no way it would have started smelling that bad in two hours of death.", no lets get real, how would you know that? Have you had snakes delivered and die in your basement?? Or is that just your opinion?? Were talking facts here not speculation. The same thing goes for your snakes, if I had recieved them and put them in my basement for 2 hours, I think you would be questiong me in the same manner. If I were totally at fault I would have no problem meeting your demands, returnig the 2 GTPs or paying you $1000. But im not totally at fault. If you were to take just a little part of the blame for the whole 2 hr deal then maybe I would see things different, but no its susposed to be my fault and im susposed to get screwed on the deal, since you talk to big breeders etc etc. Well theres only one problem with your breeder friends, they weren't there to open the package when it arrived, either were you, all I know is I shipped the snake properly and it arrived (live or dead), I have to assume by my shipping experience that it arrived alive. The same as you have to say it arrived dead, to cover your end. If you want to make cool on this deal your going to have to take some of the blame, not just shove it all in my lap, email me if you relize that could be a possibility. There will be no more phone calls like I stated before, by our emails so far I feel the phone call would get ugly and neither of us would be happy, or be able to resolve this matter.

Thanks, Chad

Chad,

I have slept on your email and given some thought to what you have said. I have also called a few other breeder friends of mine, such as Bob Clark, Jay Owens, Kevin from NERD. I asked them what they thought about the situation. All have said the same thing, which is.... Even IF the boa was shipped correctly, which all of them has said everything sounded good except for the fact that you probably should have put a cold pack in the box to keep things cool, the boa was probably sick in some way for it to have died. They all asked that if I would have gotton the snake and it had been alive, but then died for some unknown reason a few days later, would you have made things good? There is such a thing in this industry as a "Live Arrival Gurantee". Which means that I recieve the package and open the package and have a LIVE snake in my possesion. What would you have said if I would have gotton home and my mother was never in the picture, and the box sat on my front porch for a few hours? Even if the snake had died after it was dropped off, there is no way it would have started smelling that bad in two hours of death. I do appoligize about your snake dying, it sucks, but do not penalize me for something that was out of my control. I came through on my end of our agreement. You wanted my pair of Green Tree Pythons, which you recieved in GOOD health I remind you. IF you had recieved them and they been dead, or even one been dead, than I would have made good with you by either sending you money for the difference or just having you send the snakes live or dead back to me. I really don't want this to get ugly, and in no way am I trying to intemidate you or threaten you, but I will let you know that I am a moderator on the largest visited Herp forums on the internet, as well am I friends with a lot of really big breeders and moderators on other forums such as Kingsnake.com and the BOI. This could really ruin your reputation in the long run, I gurantee that it will cost you more than a thousand bucks in the future. All I'm asking, is that you do what is right, and do what you would have expected me to do if this would have happened to me. Please lets just work this out. If you don't have any more Stripes and you don't have any other boas to trade, than you can either send me the GTPs back in good health, or send me a money order for $1000.00, please let me know what you decide.

Thanks,
Jason

 

[KCRD.com]

Let the BS begin!

Jason,

I have never sent any incriminating emails. If anything your email is incriminating. I am glad you contacted your lawyer because then you might realize that you have to take responsibility. Until you can prove that the snake was DOA then please stop calling me. I never said we could not work out a deal you just assumed that we couldnt. So, when the ball was in your court you decided to lose the point.

Chad

Elizabeth&Jason Hormann <[email protected]> wrote:

Chad,

It's been a few days since I've heard from you. I am beginning to wonder if you're just gonna try and screw me on this deal. Please let me know your plans to rectifing this problem. I have left a few messages with your wife and you have not called me back. Do you really think I'm just going to let this die? Just so you are aware, I have contacted my lawyer. He has reviewed all of your incriminating emails that you have sent me, and has come to a conclusion that you are attempting internet fraud. Which by the way is a federal offense. I have also met with many local veterinarians and they have also provided me with documentaion that states that it is impossible for an animal to die during a two hour period and immediatly begin to decompose and smell, which means that your snake did infact die during shipping and was DOA at my door. This pretty much answers any and all of our discrepancies. So, the ball is in your court, what do you want to do to make good on this deal? IF I don't receive my Green Tree Pythons back by the end of this week, I will be forced to take further action. I really do not like to go this far, but I can't afford to get screwed.

Please respond ASAP,
Jason

 

[KCRD.com]

BS.....

Jason,

I recieved your email and have come to the understanding that you still have not taken any responsibility for the situation. So im willing to take the responsibilty for you and we meet in the middle of the issue. I will send you a Green Tree Python or 2 Het. for Albino Boas with a value of $450.00. Which is half the value of our deal for a $900.00 trade.

Chad

Elizabeth&Jason Hormann <[email protected]> wrote:

Chad,

Are you then implying that if I can provide you with documentation from my local vet that it is impossible for an animal to die and start decomposing and stinking in a two hour time frame, you will then send my animals back to me? If that's the case than the papers will be in the mail tomorrow. If not, than you have had plenty of time to come up with other offers for me. I have heard nothing, and have seen nothing. You really need to quit beating around the bush and wasting my time. IF your not going to pay for my animals, or give me other animals equal in value, than you must return them. The bottom line is you owe me for the value of those gtps. That value is $1200. Please let me know how you plan to handle this. As far as my lawyer goes, he has stated that until you provide me with the following, a) cash value of the snake I sent you, b) other animals that I agree are the cash value of the snakes I sent you, or c) my animals back, you have broken a verbal and written contract that you would send me a snake in trade for the cash value of the snakes that I sent you. I have all of your emails that we have traded, and have also forwarded those to him, and he says that it is very apparent that YOU are the one not wanting to take responsibility for YOUR snake dying during shipping. Man, even my lawyer knows enough that animals don't die than immediatly start to smell. You will not win this in a court of law, I have too many reputible breeders that will give written testimonies about the industries definition of a "live arrival gurrantee". I am sorry but it does not mean when the package is drop shipped and in my house, it means when I open the box and have the animal in my hand.

Bottom line, what do you have to trade me? If nothing then save yourself some court costs and send my animals back to me. I'll forget that any of this ever happened. I have yet to make posts about our issue on any forum, or the BOI. You realize that this will affect your business for a LONG time if you don't make good for this.

Jason

 

[KCRD.com]

wasting time.....

Jason,

I was willing to work with you on half the value of our deal which is $450.00, so my offer still stands as 1 Greentree Python or 2 Het. For Albino Boas.

Chad

Elizabeth&Jason Hormann <[email protected]> wrote:

Chad,

I appreciate you trying to work with me, but here is what I would like for you to send me. Either you send me a) both of the gtps or you send me b) 3 female 100% het for albino boas. If you decide to send me the het for Albino boas, I would like for you to put in with them a letter of gurantee that they are infact 100% het for Albino boas.

Thanks,
Jason

 

[KCRD.com]

There are at least another 20-25 emails that don't get us anywhere. If you would like to see them I can post them. They are basically Chad trying to weasel his way out of taking care of this.

You all asked for emails, and you got them.

Emails started on 9/3/03 and ended on 9/27/03

Someone asked why it took me 5 years to post this, I didn't wait, I actually posted this before, it just disappeared for some reason. I stopped making a deal out of it because I thought he dropped off the face of the earth. I was wrong.

As mentioned before I don't expect to get anything now, but I just want everyone to know what to expect if they do a deal with him now. From re-readig the emails I just got pissed all over again. The idea that a guy isn't even willing to stand behind his snake for more than 2 hours is insane! Especially when the box is put in a temperature controlled room that stays around 78-82. There was no cold pack in the box and there is NO way that a snake dies and starts to smell that bad in 2 hours. HE knows he screwed up when the snake was picked up early that morning and shipped with no cool pack. If I remember correctly the highs that day were in the upper 90's if not in the low triple digits.

 

[Arabesqueboa.com]

It wasn’t my intention to post again but Jason’s lies are getting out of hand.

Let me Quote Jason from his first posts on this thread:

Its amazing how Jason starts this post with a lie:

Quote from Jason’s first post on this thread: “The snake showed up to my house the next morning on time but as the currier handed me the box he said I think there is something dead in that box as the smell that was coming from it was horrific!”

Quote from Jason’s second post on this thread: “There is no way in the world I would not be available for a package that had a live animal in it the morning it was to be delivered”.

I have the original emails too, here’s Jason’s email to me:
From:
"Elizabeth&Jason Hormann" <[email protected]>
Add sender to Contacts
To:
"Chad Horne" <[email protected]>

Chad,

Please call me ASAP at 913-269-5764. My mom just called me at work and told me to come right over, the snake was here. So I just opened the box not 2 minutes ago, and the worst smell you have ever smelled came from the box. The snake is very beautiful, but unfortunatly she died in shipping! Please call me ASAP!

Thanks,
Jason

Well let’s see, Jason lied about his magical conversation with the delivery driver, LOL. Then in his second post another lie, Jason your just full of fun stories aren’t you. I plan not to waste anymore of my time with this non-sense and Jason’s fairytells. Now everyone can see the type of person Jason is, its too bad our phone conversations weren’t recorded. Jason started this thread with lies and now I’m finishing it with the truth.

Thank You,
Chad Horne