Charles Ball Selling Black-headed pythons from PA Buyers Beware!

[ChondroPy]

You still don't get it!!! And you admitted it! You were at TOM'S HOUSE not the airport. There is a difference, I hope....

I (and most breeders) will not guarantee their animals based on your idea of animal husbandry at home. When you start probing and feeding and whatever you two did to that poor snake...you are on your own.

 

[Griz]

Charles, the simple fact that you are approaching this with such a condescending tone, will lead people to lean toward the purchaser. Stop with the pseudo and not-so-veiled insults and you might be taken more seriously.

Griz

 

[Griz]

You still don't get it!!! And you admitted it! You were at TOM'S HOUSE not the airport. There is a difference, I hope....

I (and most breeders) will not guarantee their animals based on your idea of animal husbandry at home. When you start probing and feeding and whatever you two did to that poor snake...you are on your own.

Charles, you obviously do not have a clue when it comes to other breeders. I have sold numerous animals, adults and neo's, and my guarantee is not thrown out the door simply because the purchaser goes to feed it, or sex it. I sell my animals as guaranteed sexed which implies that the purchaser will need to sex the animal at some point. I know of no other breeders who take the stance that you are insinuating they do.

From the sounds of this, you are simply trying to hide and make up excuses in which you can alleviate your responsibilities.

Griz

 

[derekroddy]

(or was it you who was supposed to...who bought these frickin animals in the first place?),

Nope, I have one hell of a BHP collection and no room for your "average animals" in it.

 

[derekroddy]

When you start probing and feeding and whatever you two did to that poor snake...you are on your own.

You're an idiot.
What... you're not suppose to feed the animal or sex it to see if it's the right sex after you've made a puchase from someone you don't know?
I don't know anybody who has feed an animal and killed it.
You killed it by NOT feeding it and passed it off on someone else and charged them 750 for it.
That animal needed to be fed as it certainly wasn't by you.
Shame on you Charles.

 

[ravensgait]

The Guarantee:: there isn't any guarantee plain and simple and a number of other breeders and dealers offer pretty much the same as Charles here does. Not saying that's good or bad as it seems no matter what kind of guarantee there is it can come back and bite you in the butt.

Charles as Bob mentioned your attitude isn't helping you any. By your own terms you are pretty much in the clear on this one but if it were me I'd give the guy another baby from the clutch. Sure it sucks but it is good customer service the baby shouldn't have died and it looks like it might not have been the healthiest to begin with. Randy

 

[smilin-buddha]

I also saw the snake shortly after the snake arrived. The snake I saw was very thin. The picture provided has no date stamp on it. So it is really of little use. As far as the guarantee. The snake was not stolen or died in shipping. And I was in the snake room with Tom when he called you an voiced his concern on the look of the animal. So those terms were met. As far as comparing you guarantee to others of the industry the ones you mentioned in your own post. I checked both sites that you talked about. One Nerd and Casey. Both sellers give you the option that if you are not happy with the animal for an exchange or credit. You denied there was anything wrong with the animal!

 

[kmurphy]

Charles, what you're saying is that you really do not guaranty the animals at all. The only way you'll replace an animal is if dies in shipping and insurance pays for it. Just want to make sure that's clear.

If Tom had opened the box at the airport and found a live, but skinny, and in his mind unhealthy, python, he would be out of luck.

 

[ChondroPy]

For the last time....please read ALL of the posts. He did not call from the airport. That was one of the terms... If he had called and was displeased at the airport...then back on the plane they go. The whole package...he had a discount due to a larger animal purchase.

As another poster stated...even if all terms are in effect to the benefit of the buyer, there is still some instance that will bite you in the butt. Please stop beating this horse...if a buyer cannot agree to the terms than he is on his own.

The only reason I am spending this time here is to get you guys to see that TERMS do mean something. They are not there as something breeders throw in as "filler".

Bye and good luck,
Charles Ball

 

[Chameleon Company]

Charles,

This forum sees quite a few claims where the seller's TOS are written such to allow the seller to claim what is pretty much "its alive, its yours" protection against claims. Your TOS say "alive and healthy" on arrival at the airport, but would seem to be excessively tight in the eyes of many, as the buyer has to make the "healthy" call right then. Most other sellers will at least allow the buyer a reasonable window to get the animal into its new home and evaluate it, and their guarantee will hinge more on an overall satisfaction clause, and not just "death" or a dispute about relative health. I think that the proper thing, and what most of the reptile community adheres to, would have been the flexibility to have prompted a discussion once misgivings were expressed. This would have resulted in an agreed upon and definitive course of action once the buyer called you with reservations, which seems to have been within hours of delivery. Maybe something like "evaluate it for 24 hours", or "lets give it a week", etc. That did not happen, and now you have the added charges/countercharges about feeding and probing. I see no worry of a legal dispute here, as your TOS protect you there. But I can see the majority of the readers here not only thinking you could have done better, but that you had an ethical obligation to do better. IMO, if "feeding and probing" were going to be the stress that broke the proverbial camel's back, then the animal was unfit to begin with. To your credit, you did offer some money back, which is better than many disputes here.

 

[Griz]

For the last time....please read ALL of the posts. He did not call from the airport. That was one of the terms... If he had called and was displeased at the airport...then back on the plane they go. The whole package...he had a discount due to a larger animal purchase.

As another poster stated...even if all terms are in effect to the benefit of the buyer, there is still some instance that will bite you in the butt. Please stop beating this horse...if a buyer cannot agree to the terms than he is on his own.

The only reason I am spending this time here is to get you guys to see that TERMS do mean something. They are not there as something breeders throw in as "filler".

Bye and good luck,
Charles Ball

I have to state very clearly here, Charles is showing classic scammer signs. You sent a very ill animal after misrepresenting the health of said animal. You then, simply because he called you at home vs the airport, are denying any responsibility for the well-being of the animal. Quite frankly, had I seen the condition of this animal at the airport, I probably would have brought it home as well. No way was the animal in good enough condition to make the original plane flight let alone to be shipped back!

Charles, why don't you do a little bit of research and see just who's who on this board. You will see this is NOT a playground full of novices. You have some of the biggest names in the industry that participate here. Thousands of people check this board every day to find out who to deal with and who to steer clear from. I guarantee you that you, unless you make this right, will fall into the latter group.

You are showing all of the signs of a scammer and I can assure you that I, and numerous other people, will NEVER do business with the likes of you. Do what is right and refund him his money and move on. Otherwise, this thread will continue to haunt you.

Griz

 

[ChondroPy]

Well if you feel that way Griz...go to a few of their sites and view the terms. My terms are pretty much down the middle. You have your own opinion like eveyone else. Once again..if you go against the terms you are on your own. Terms are not stated for you to do any thing you please. By the way, I think you are the scammer here and your opinion sucks. Terms deal with people like you who have their own opinion of what you think everyone else should think.

In this case, such is not the case! You can keep your opinion. Lets see you go to NERD and say ...Oh, my snake died today after a five days...I think I should get my money back. I probed it...."

Charles Ball

 

[VanZwedenReptiles]

Can't see where it is deformed but it does look pretty thin. Not much in that stomach. Sorry for your loss, $750 is a lot of change so I hope you're persuing this guy.

I guess I've have never seen a animal so drawn down,that it makes it appear Deformed.The only time i have seen snake's like that,with the backs high and there stomach's so tight looking was in baby burms and some corns that were incubated at to high a temp.I must say I'm sorry for saying it was deformed.Just after over 30 years of owning Snakes and 20+ years breeding them.I have never seen anything look like that,unless it was deformed dead in a egg.Do you have any pictures of the rest of the litter?I see that it was a small baby BHP,and alot on the thin side in the other photo.Again Sorry for saying and thinking it was deformed,I've just never seen any Snake look like that unless it was.

Greg VanZweden
http://www.vanzwedenreptiles.com/

 

[smilin-buddha]

GUARANTEES from some others

From Bob Clark

All animals are guaranteed to be healthy, feeding and properly sexed. If you are not satisfied we will replace any animal for the cost of the return freight if notified within 24 hours of receipt Payment is required in advance by check, money order, wire transfer or credit card. A 20% deposit is recommended to reserve animals in short supply. Prices quoted are for individual animals based on the purchase of sexual pairs. A surcharge may be added for single or additional females. Quantity discounts are available for some species



l GUARANTEES]
All reptiles will be honestly represented, healthy, feeding, and sexed correctly unless otherwise agreed upon. I take great pride in my collection. My captive-bred reptiles represent some of the finest and healthiest reptiles available anywhere. If you are dissatisfied with your shipment for any reason, I will replace or refund your money at your choice, providing you contact me within 24 hours of receiving the shipment. After 24 hours of the shipment's arrival, I assume no further liabilities. Occasionally, a shipment may not make its connecting flight and arrive hours later. You need to be in touch with the airlines to track your shipment. If there is negligence on the airline's part, I will take responsibility. You must open your shipment immediately at the airline's facility to insure against theft or accidental death. If a problem exists, you must alert the airlines and me of the problem immediately. In the many years I have been doing business, I have experienced very few problems with shipments I have sent out. From Casey Lazik

SATISFACTION AND LIVE ARRIVAL GUARANTEED-7 DAY EXTENDED GUARANTEE AFTER ARRIVAL From Ben Siegel

 

[Dennis Hultman]

In this case, such is not the case! You can keep your opinion. Lets see you go to NERD and say ...Oh, my snake died today after a five days...I think I should get my money back. I probed it...."

Charles Ball

I guarantee that A) Nerd wouldn’t send an animal in that poor of health and B) Kevin and Kara would have made it right if someone was unhappy with their purchase and their would be no need for a thread such as this.

You admit that your hang-up is on the fact he called you from his home and not the airport. I call that hiding behind a TOS, NOT sticking to one.

 

[kmurphy]

Well if you feel that way Griz...go to a few of their sites and view the terms. My terms are pretty much down the middle. You have your own opinion like eveyone else. Once again..if you go against the terms you are on your own. Terms are not stated for you to do any thing you please. By the way, I think you are the scammer here and your opinion sucks. Terms deal with people like you who have their own opinion of what you think everyone else should think.

In this case, such is not the case! You can keep your opinion. Lets see you go to NERD and say ...Oh, my snake died today after a five days...I think I should get my money back. I probed it...."

Charles Ball

You really should get Dale Carnegie's book "How to Win Friends and Influence People" if you want to continue selling snakes.

TOS is something that can be a very effective tool to fall back on if things get out of hand. If the buyer is making outrageous demands, or is completely unreasonable. They're not something that should allow the seller not to make good on a legitmate complaint. McCurley didn't get as big as he is now by doing what you're doing. Tom has a legitimate complaint and witnesses to verify what he is saying.

 

[Dennis Hultman]

I guarantee that A) Nerd wouldn’t send an animal in that poor of health and B) Kevin and Kara would have made it right if someone was unhappy with their purchase and their would be no need for a thread such as this.

You admit that your hang-up is on the fact he called you from his home and not the airport. I call that hiding behind a TOS, NOT sticking to one.

I guarantee that A) Nerd wouldn’t send an animal in that poor of health and B) Kevin and Kara would have made it right if someone was unhappy with their purchase and there wouldn't be a need for a thread, such as this.

 

[Griz]

Well if you feel that way Griz...go to a few of their sites and view the terms. My terms are pretty much down the middle. You have your own opinion like eveyone else. Once again..if you go against the terms you are on your own. Terms are not stated for you to do any thing you please. By the way, I think you are the scammer here and your opinion sucks. Terms deal with people like you who have their own opinion of what you think everyone else should think.

In this case, such is not the case! You can keep your opinion. Lets see you go to NERD and say ...Oh, my snake died today after a five days...I think I should get my money back. I probed it...."

Charles Ball

Oh, cry me a river, SCAMMER! You think I am the scammer and I suck? That right there shows everyone here the type of person the buyer is dealing with. An immature, hide behind my TOS, selling sick animals, and then resorting to name calling because I cannot hold my own in an intellectual conversation SCAMMER!

Keep it up Charles, the more people who view this the better!

Griz

 

[ambrosemurphy]

I guarantee that A) Nerd wouldn’t send an animal in that poor of health and B) Kevin and Kara would have made it right if someone was unhappy with their purchase and their would be no need for a thread such as this.

You admit that your hang-up is on the fact he called you from his home and not the airport. I call that hiding behind a TOS, NOT sticking to one.

Amen to that!

In my opinion, any breeder's TOS that takes "Buyer Beware" and elevates it to "Buyer Avoid" should indeed be avoided...case made in this thread perfectly!

All the "side" issues brought up in this thread are moot as far as I'm concerned...quite apparent from the breeder furnished photo that this snake was in no way "established" and possibly/probably not healthy either...definitely not in a state that a reputable breeder would consider saleable OR shippable! I would classify it as a "failure to thrive" baby that probably never should have hatched...doubtful most breeders could/would be able to keep it alive...to blame it's foregone death on the unsuspecting buyer is so off the mark I can't believe someone would try to.

This "breeder" shouldn't sully the top shelf reps of Nerd, etc. by delusionally self-associating himself with them...he's definitely in a class all his own!

Send the buyer his money back and perhaps someday you can salvage your damaged reputation! Doubt you'll have many sales in the meantime though...public forums such as this DO serve a true purpose--keeping the buying public aware of unethical business practices...thanks to BOI for once again airing some very dirty laundry!

 

[liquidleaf]

Yeah, obviously there WAS AN ISSUE the same day that the customer received the snake, regardless of your TOS and regardless of where he called you from. You obviously don't care about anything more than your bottom line, from your attitude here. I'd never buy from you, after hearing what you've had to say.