Chelsea Richardson-SNAKE KILLER...

[Chameleon Company]

Note that "stupidity" has now truly arrived.

Curtis, as the above post demonstrates, there is no skill or talent in tearing something down, contibuting more to the problem, etc. Dave and Wes have much in common. For some, its all they know to do. The talent is in trying to improve, if not remedy, the situation. If Chelsea were to read this thread, and it was nothing but Wes and David jerking each other, would that motivate her to seek help, much less read here again ? Then look at Boidsmith's post, which seems to be here in the hope that Chelsea, or other readers, might learn, and maybe even seek out more help, from this thread. The choice will be yours as to how you manage your influence.

 

[CurtisF]

Oh, I know the fued between Wes and Jim, but I'd hate for it to spill in to here just because of my posts. I'll sit on the sidelines and continue to figure out who is who, and what is what, as I'm still new to fauna. Ironically, I think one of the first threads I read were an argument between you two.

 

[Wilomn]

chumpco will try to make it about him and me but it's really about what killed that snake, nothing else.

The girl killed it.

David, have a necropsy done and post the results. That will settle once and for all cause of death.

 

[Chameleon Company]

I think that some folks are better represented by themselves if they take the time to read all the posts prior to making one of their own, as in over 70 posts no one has doubted that poor husbandry was the cause of the snake's demise. Knock yourself out.

 

[varnyard]

Originally Posted by: Chameleon Company]Note that "stupidity" has now truly arrived.

Yes Jim, you are here. You don't need to point it out to us, you are well known, regardless of what you call yourself.

Originally Posted by Chameleon Company]That he has shown himself to be ____________ (malicious, stupid, biased .... etc ..... etc ...... choose your own), beyond valid contempt as pointed out by several , is not significant ? To question the credibility of the accuser is stupid ? Think again Curtis, as it is quite appropriate.

Now is that not the pot calling the kettle black? Sounds like Jim could look in the mirror and repeat those same words about himself, JMHO, based on Jims actions of late.

 

[SoulSmilen]

This thread is insane; Chelsea isn't the focus or the big picture here, nor is the BRB.

Maybe I missed it, but did anyone ask if David calmly went over possible problems in the husbandry with Chelsea???? This whole thread could have been avoided if this had been handled as an educational experience rather than taking an accusatory stance. If it was said, I apologize for missing it; it was obviously skipped over by the majority and not considered important enough to focus on.

Is it a shame the snake died? Of course it is. Is it a shame that her other tanks/enclosures are in bad shape and may lead to more deaths? Of course it is. However, IMO it's a bigger shame to walk away and not educate her.

She proclaimed to know what she was doing MANY times yesterday while I was at her location holding the 90% dead Rainbow Boa and viewing the horrible conditions her other animals were in. She is nothing more than scum.

People that truly believe they are doing something correctly WILL claim they know what they are doing, so I'm not surprised she proclaimed many times she knew what she was doing.

If you reacted in anger or walked away without leading her to the proper information or an invitation to join the herp society or a forum like Fauna, then there is more than one 'bad guy' here. I'm not throwing stones at you, but this is something that had NO need to go this far.

I think the herp community does a good job at policing itself in situations such as this.

So police it rather than running to the BOI. Why are there suggestions of going to the authorities for one instance? That's incredible. I think someone said it already; her use of potpourri is surely not a deliberate attempt to kill her animals, it is ignorance. It is ignorance that can be fixed with the help of a community that claims to be so tight.

The only way I can hope to prevent this from happening in the future is to make the situation public amongst the herp community.

That's not the only way, it's not even the RIGHT way at this point. If you are so concerned that she change her ways, see above. Calmly contact her and offer skills and advice in place of the refund; or let someone else do it since you view her as trash already. (That shouldn't have been said, by the way; and most assuredly shouldn't have been typed on the BOI. Now, even if there was a chance of her accepting advice or invitation to join the society or forum, she may see this and go off half-cocked and want nothing to do with you causing even more situations that were unavoidable.)

I just don't believe this is BOI material; at most it was Sound Off material and I, for one, would much rather see it handled at the source with education and not humiliation.

Words for us all to remember.. Educate, don't humiliate.

 

[DavidBeard]

Education, while an awesome theory in fairy tale land, simply does not equate to results all of the time in the real world.

Upon my delivering the snake to Chelsea, I asked if she was aware of the snake's husbandry requirement. She said yes, that she has been reading up on them online for quite a while and that she was no stranger to proper Boa care. Not really knowing her personally, I deemed her fit to own the snake and sold it to her.

Did I question her about the set-up, temps, etc of the snake's environment when she told me of the issues with the snake? Of course I did. It is my personal belief that she overheated the snake (going on what she told me herself), and combined with the potpourri, this led to the demise of the Boa.

 

[FunkyRes]

Profiling works, not everytime but often enough that it will never go away.

Something that should be noted -

Mobile home parks very often limit the kind of pets you may keep. For example, any pet that is not kept indoors 100% of the time is forbidden.

For that reason, many people who live in those communities keep reptiles. They are generally more interesting and generally less work than fish. They don't smell like rodents do. They don't smell like a cat box does.

While it certainly is true that some of them do not properly house their pets, a lot of them do a very good job. I suspect that the demographics of herpers has a higher number of people living in mobile homes than most hobbies do, and that may be part of the backlash that happened to the comment.

I have no doubts that the OP claims of the conditions of the snakes is true, however. She needs to offload some of the herps she has to a rescue, and focus on better care of the ones she does have, instead of spending money on more herps. That much I think is clear. Clear to me at least.

Word of warning - I googled her name to see if I could find more information about her. Turns out there are a lot of people with her name - one girl was recently given the death sentence for her involvement in murder, another one is a musician and has an album you can buy on cdbaby, etc. - it's a very common name. How many of them are involved in herps, I don't know, but sellers should be aware that it is a fairly common last name and not too uncommon of a first name.

 

[Sledgehammer]

Jim F & Wes,
Why don't the two of you just get a room and settle this once and for all.

Once you've determined who is the alpha dog, maybe we can return to some sense of order here. This is all too reminiscent of the old feuds between Wes and Neil Gubitz, which if I'm not mistaken, contributed to the initial banning of Wes from this site.

Both of you are notorious for hijacking every thread in which you participate in and turning it into something about you. The BOI deserves better.

Get over yourselves and try to contribute something useful to the site.

 

[Wilomn]

Jim F & Wes,
Why don't the two of you just get a room and settle this once and for all.

Once you've determined who is the alpha dog, maybe we can return to some sense of order here. This is all too reminiscent of the old feuds between Wes and Neil Gubitz, which if I'm not mistaken, contributed to the initial banning of Wes from this site.

Both of you are notorious for hijacking every thread in which you participate in and turning it into something about you. The BOI deserves better.

Get over yourselves and try to contribute something useful to the site.

AHAHahahahahaHAHahahahahahahahAHaHAHahaha

Use the ignore feature.

 

[Sledgehammer]

AHAHahahahahaHAHahahahahahahahAHaHAHahaha

Use the ignore feature.

Alright.
How many times have we all seen this exact response from Wes.

Wes, let me give you some advice. If you have nothing of substance to contribute to a thread, then just keep quiet.

I don't know the author, but it has been said:

Better to keep quiet and be thought a fool, then to open your mouth and remove all doubt.

 

[SoulSmilen]

Education, while an awesome theory in fairy tale land, simply does not equate to results all of the time in the real world.

Upon my delivering the snake to Chelsea, I asked if she was aware of the snake's husbandry requirement. She said yes, that she has been reading up on them online for quite a while and that she was no stranger to proper Boa care. Not really knowing her personally, I deemed her fit to own the snake and sold it to her.

Did I question her about the set-up, temps, etc of the snake's environment when she told me of the issues with the snake? Of course I did. It is my personal belief that she overheated the snake (going on what she told me herself), and combined with the potpourri, this led to the demise of the Boa.

Education is not fairy tale material, it's reality. Isn't that what we deem to be about as a community??

Boa care is not BRB care, that should have been a red flag right off the bat.

I'm not blaming you, but this could and should have been handled much differently from the get-go. Chelsea is NOT a snake killer; her lack of knowledge contributed to the death of a snake.

Did you at least call her back to let her know the potpourri is deadly??? That would be a start.

 

[Wilomn]

Alright.
How many times have we all seen this exact response from Wes.

Wes, let me give you some advice. If you have nothing of substance to contribute to a thread, then just keep quiet.

I don't know the author, but it has been said:

Better to keep quiet and be thought a fool, then to open your mouth and remove all doubt.

snicker snicker

Ever thought about taking your own advice?

chumpco is trying to garner sympathy for a girl who killed a snake, to make the guy who sold the snake look bad.

That's not good. If you think it is, then by all means say so, but don't try to get me to overlook the stupidity of blaming the guy who brought it all to light.

That is foolish.

 

[Chameleon Company]

Sledge,

I only need post in any thread to then have Wes, and now his new sidekick Bobby, post the silliness you see. Welcome to the club of now being embroiled in nonsense, courtesy Wes the dope.

BTW:

"Tis better to be silent and thought a fool, than to speak and remove all doubt". Abe Lincoln

Soul Smilen ... great post !! Tis a thread of contrasts here, and I thank you for taking the time to make such level-headed comments

 

[cka]

Education is not fairy tale material, it's reality. Isn't that what we deem to be about as a community??

I'd like to think all of us in the community would be willing to educate those in need; it's too bad most of the "public" does little or no education themselves before jumping into reptile keeping. In this day of "Information Overload" no one has the excuse of "I just didn't know" anymore.

Her Husbandry sounds deplorable, but is it really better to condemn her for being a dumb@ss or point her in the right direction to improve her skills? :shrugs: Personally I'm always on the fence about this one lol.

About the refund. Don't know the "Beardless One's" TOS. On a trade like that, after seeing her animals and the conditions they are in, I'd give her the ATB back and call it a wash

 

[Wolfy-hound]

The base of most of the people posting here is...
1. Its a shame that the BRB died, especially from bad husbandry which is totally preventable.
2. The girl needs to be educated on proper husbandry in a way that she will listen to, to prevent her from killing MORE herps, not that she is delibritely killing them, but at any rate HER lack of care IS killing them, i.e. SHE is killing them.
3. The originator of the thread meant to call HER trailer trash, and did not mean to actually state that all people living in trailers are trash. He has said so already.
My alst point will be this. If you had a prized lovely snake, in good health, and you sold it to a 'good owner' and in TWO WEEKS came to find it in that sad condition, on the verge of death.. HOW MANY OF YOU would be able to calmly and rationaly have a talk about husbandry practices with the person that caused that suffering.. when she claims to know what she is doing, and doesn't think she did anything wrong? How many? Anyone who says that they could is either NOT a herp lover, is lying, or is Budda reincarnated. I certainly would have gone off on her, then stormed out myself. I MIGHT have been able to calm down, swallow my pride, and contact her later.. but that's a big maybe. My suggestion is that he have someone else from the local herp community go have a rational talk with her, and see if they can get her to correct the husbandry.
Squabbling back and forth just makes you guys look silly, but hey, if you like it, I can ignore it just as well as everyone else is.
Wolfy

 

[varnyard]

I only need post in any thread to then have Wes, and now his new sidekick Bobby, post the silliness you see. Welcome to the club of now being embroiled in nonsense, courtesy Wes the dope.

BTW:


Soul Smilen ... great post !! Tis a thread of contrasts here, and I thank you for taking the time to make such level-headed comments

Now Jim, once again you show your true brilliance. What is nonsense, stupid and silliness? IMO, it would be someone that calls a proven good guy a scammer ( I might add, that has a awesome reputation). Stop me if I am wrong, but you did use your brilliance in that manner by calling me a scammer because I called it what it was. Granted, I did not agree with you. Also I never will when you call a long time proven scammer a good guy.

You do have one hell of a nerve calling someone else a dope, stupid or a scammer. Jim, you are looking at a long hard road, but not without just cause. Unlike you, I tend to be up front. Yes, a spade is nothing more but just a spade.

Is it not something how anyone that does not agree with Jim get fired upon and with true wit, so he thinks?

Yes Jim, I think many of us see you just how you are.

I will give you a bit of advice, it might be best if you pick your battles a little better. I did not start this fight, but I can war when needed.

As for Chelsea, she killed this snake. Yes, David could have educated her about the care of this animal. But did David know she was not a long time keeper? Did she ask him for advice on the proper care?

But IMO, I think it would be wise for anyone getting a animal to do the research first. Did she do this? If so it does not show.

IMHO, It is the owners responsibility to learn the proper care. It should not be blamed on the seller if they choose not to learn before they purchase.

 

[ToshaMc]

It is always sad to hear the unfortunate death of animal - and even more so when it could have easily been prevented or regrettably if you are the one responsible for placing the animal in the first place.

Would it be possible to contact your local herp society and get them involved - get someone out there to examine the remaining animals, and thoroughly educate her on properly housing and caring for them. And possibly giving her a hand to get them set up properly (or sold off) and do a follow up visit - all under the condition that if she doesn't comply the local animal control or Sheriffs department will be contacted and her animals removed - although your county may not have laws specific to snakes/herps - I can't imagine there wouldn't be some animal cruelty law would pertain to this issue.

Instead of turning this into a bash the other fauna members thread - lets see if we can't try to find some way to help the other animals involved.

 

[SoulSmilen]

The base of most of the people posting here is...
1. Its a shame that the BRB died, especially from bad husbandry which is totally preventable.
2. The girl needs to be educated on proper husbandry in a way that she will listen to, to prevent her from killing MORE herps, not that she is delibritely killing them, but at any rate HER lack of care IS killing them, i.e. SHE is killing them.
3. The originator of the thread meant to call HER trailer trash, and did not mean to actually state that all people living in trailers are trash. He has said so already.
My alst point will be this. If you had a prized lovely snake, in good health, and you sold it to a 'good owner' and in TWO WEEKS came to find it in that sad condition, on the verge of death.. HOW MANY OF YOU would be able to calmly and rationaly have a talk about husbandry practices with the person that caused that suffering.. when she claims to know what she is doing, and doesn't think she did anything wrong? How many? Anyone who says that they could is either NOT a herp lover, is lying, or is Budda reincarnated. I certainly would have gone off on her, then stormed out myself. I MIGHT have been able to calm down, swallow my pride, and contact her later.. but that's a big maybe. My suggestion is that he have someone else from the local herp community go have a rational talk with her, and see if they can get her to correct the husbandry.
Squabbling back and forth just makes you guys look silly, but hey, if you like it, I can ignore it just as well as everyone else is.
Wolfy

"I" does not = "everyone," but that's neither here nor there, I suppose. There are many people who would be able to calmly talk about husbandry practices without lying, being herp haters, or being Buddha; probably more in that category than the alternative. Being a calm person does not negate truth and/or compassion, so lumping us all together as above is just as 'offensive' as the trailer trash lumping if one chooses to be offended about careless collective remarks.

As for someone else talking to her... yup, that was suggested already; it's probably the only hope since the trash attitude is already there.

 

[DavidBeard]

I am attempting to assist the animals in Chelsea's care....whether I can do it personally or through someone else remains to be seen. My main concern is the well being of the animals in her care now.