Chelsea Richardson-SNAKE KILLER...

[varnyard]

Since it resurrected in this thread, I wanted to put in a post that after some PM exchanges yesterday, Bobby Hill and I were able to have a talk last night. It was a good one. I don't want to speak for Bobby, except to say that he mistakenly thought that several of my comments about some folks in the Pacific Northwest were actually referencing a different entity.

This is true; Jim and I did speak on the phone. We did have a huge miscommunication on the BOI of late.

In that scenario, they did not fit, were not accurate, and would have had no basis in truth. There were other mistaken references, at least where words in the BOI did not produce the intended results between us.

This is also a true statement; Jim now knows I had no part in the demise of this Pacific Northwest entity. I retract my thoughts of Jim being anything less then a truthful good guy. However, He is also known to go the extra mile for a friend.

All were cleared up in the phone conversation, with a couple of concerns we will likely follow up on outside of the BOI. We laughed at quite a bit. I also believe we can communicate here in the BOI again without the heat being turned way up from the beginning.

I agree Jim, lets move on. The whole thing escalated way too far. It is something how it happens in the BOI.

Lest there be any doubt, I have always known Bobby to be impeccable in his business transactions, knowledge, and desire to help others with that knowledge. Its nice to end the year being able to say "tell him I sent you" when recommending folks deal with Bobby Hill

Jim too has always been great to deal with, however I have never dealt with him myself, I do hear many good things. Jim is also known to have some of the best Chams in the business.

Happy New Year Randy !

Happy New Year Everyone!!

 

[Mike Greathouse]

Kudos to Jim & Bobby.

Here's to a fantastic new year for both of you.

 

[Seamus Haley]

I suppose that warrants a more detailed explaination, if the meaning wasn't clear from my last post, or if someone might not have read it.

I also figure that knowledge tells... and when there's a dispute about husbandry, credibility should go to the person who knows what they're doing. I have a pretty good idea of what David does and, in at least a few cases, doesn't know about reptiles- I'm going to ask a few questions of Chelsea or Brandon to determine what the experience is like on the other side.

David says he sold a heathy snake and picked up one that was exhibiting syptoms that he associated with neurological problems. Brandon contended that the snake was sold with the problems... can Brandon or Chelsea please detail what those symptoms were that led to that conclusion?

David claims he was keeping the animal in ideal conditions and that the other pair were not. Can both sides please detail (and i do want details) the enclosure the animals were being kept in? What was the temperature? How was it being maintained, how was it being monitored? What was the humidity, how was it being maintained, how was it being monitored? What was the substrate being used? What kind of cage furnishings, if any, were present? Where was the enclosure kept and what kind of enclosure was it? If the animal was fed while in the care of Chelsea/Brandon, what was it fed and when, in relation to obtaining the animal and it's death.

David is a known quality, how much any individual respects that quality is another matter, but people know him and have a good idea of how his knowledge of animal care is. Anyone who does know him will trust in his ability to maintain rainbow boas in good health. Not many people know you, it'd help your side of the argument a lot if you could take the time to answer a few questions and establish your credibility. Once that's done, perhaps some constructive discussion can ensue about the additional accusations made about the living conditions of your animals- help everyone decide if David is full of crap or if you need an education. Right now, both are certainly possibilities.

Oh and Jim Flaherty... I know you have a longstanding habit of defending anything you seem to see as an eligible piece no matter how criminal or stupid or not interested in you they may be- but this one is both in a relationship and below the age of consent. Your efforts are wasted and your habitual tendency in that direction is obvious. If there's a legitimate argument that David was at fault, your contributions are only going to detract from their overall credibility; because you are, in the end, a pathetic joke and a wretched excuse for a human being, completely without value or redeeming features and your support will only have a negative effect. Maybe you should just turn your attentions back towards spokane and see if you can get Joe Capone's sloppy seconds.

 

[DavidBeard]

Here is how I kept the Rainbow Boa...

-housing=16 quart sterilite tub contained in a Jason's Jungle rack system.
-heating=flexwatt heat tape hooked up to a Johnson's thermostat.
-temperatures=gradient of 75-85.
-substrate=black & white newspaper.
-cage furnishings=2 small hides & a water dish large enough for the snake to soak itself in if it desired to.
-temperature measurements were taken with an infared "temp gun".
-feeding regimen=one frozen/thawed rat pink/fuzzy offered every 7 days

 

[Seamus Haley]

Here is how I kept the Rainbow Boa...

-housing=16 quart sterilite tub contained in a Jason's Jungle rack system.
-heating=flexwatt heat tape hooked up to a Johnson's thermostat.
-temperatures=gradient of 75-85.
-substrate=black & white newspaper.
-cage furnishings=2 small hides & a water dish large enough for the snake to soak itself in if it desired to.
-temperature measurements were taken with an infared "temp gun".
-feeding regimen=one frozen/thawed rat pink/fuzzy offered every 7 days

Thanks David, that was exactly what I was looking for, if they can respond similarly so people can look at them side by side, it may help provide a few answers. For the spectators and pershaps for the involved party that's directly culpable.

 

[DavidBeard]

I forgot to mention that the snake also received the occasional misting every 2-3 days or so. As we all know, steriltie tubs hold humidity very well, this combined with the large water dish and mistings helped ensure the snake received the required humidity in order to thrive. I've kept Rainbow Boas in the past and never had any problems whatsoever with them.

 

[Chameleon Company]

So what do you really think Seamus ...

The gutter is yours. Slime the night away.

 

[Suncoast Herpetological]

Oh and Jim Flaherty... I know you have a longstanding habit of defending anything you seem to see as an eligible piece no matter how criminal or stupid or not interested in you they may be- but this one is both in a relationship and below the age of consent. Your efforts are wasted and your habitual tendency in that direction is obvious. If there's a legitimate argument that David was at fault, your contributions are only going to detract from their overall credibility; because you are, in the end, a pathetic joke and a wretched excuse for a human being, completely without value or redeeming features and your support will only have a negative effect. Maybe you should just turn your attentions back towards spokane and see if you can get Joe Capone's sloppy seconds.

Tacky classless and so far beneath the normal quality of your posts that I am completely appalled. As condescending as this is going to sound...Shame on you Seamus. That is the kind of mindless crap we normally see out of Wes, not someone who has always attempted to maintain an air of professionalism and civility here.

 

[Suncoast Herpetological]

Here is how I kept the Rainbow Boa...

-housing=16 quart sterilite tub contained in a Jason's Jungle rack system.
-heating=flexwatt heat tape hooked up to a Johnson's thermostat.
-temperatures=gradient of 75-85.
-substrate=black & white newspaper.
-cage furnishings=2 small hides & a water dish large enough for the snake to soak itself in if it desired to.
-temperature measurements were taken with an infared "temp gun".
-feeding regimen=one frozen/thawed rat pink/fuzzy offered every 7 days

David

Despite Seamus's attempts at pot stirring, I do not think that anyone believes the animal was in less than acceptable condition at the time of sale. The confusion, which you have clarified, came from one of your posts being a bit less than clear. With the exception of one ill considered comment for which you have apologized, I do not think anyone finds you at fault in this transaction.

 

[kmurphy]

Tacky classless and so far beneath the normal quality of your posts that I am completely appalled. As condescending as this is going to sound...Shame on you Seamus. That is the kind of mindless crap we normally see out of Wes, not someone who has always attempted to maintain an air of professionalism and civility here.

 

[CorwinsCritters]

34 pages dedicated to what should have been under three. I made it to page 24 and personally got ill. I'm familiar that all subcultures have their dominant personalities and therefore the clashes. I for one have been involved in one recently, and it was very eye opening. Having now paid more attention to this site and subsequent BOI I find myself absolutely amazed. I see a community of people that positively WAIT for an oportunity to bring someone down and simultanesouly prop themselves up. I won't mention who I agree with or not. It's not relevant. I'm not even mentioning the snakes, as it's been addressed sufficiently. I'm just tired of coming to the several sites I frequent to talk to people about lizards and snakes (I can't imagine anything that should be more innoculous) and walking into a war. What about the kids who are excited about their first painted turtle or iguana and come here only to find what should be leadership based role models acting in this manner. I've met many good people in this hobby, but if we're going to view ourselves as a true community a lot of us are going to have to alter our ego and behaviour. Otherwise, I'm sorry to say the stereotypes will appear to apply to any looking in.

Just my two cents.

 

[ravensgait]

Seems people always have trouble understanding the difference between the BOI and the Forums here. Mark people get carried away on the BOI but more than a few times that tenaciousness has exposed a truly bad guy...

On the Forums where newbies should be asking their questions things are different.....Randy

 

[TrulyCapricious]

Okay, so here's my question on this whole thing: did you get a necropsy done? There's definately a reason that little dead brb's cloaca is as red as it appears in the post-mortum photos, but whether it has something to do with a prolapse, a very bad probe job, the substrate, or something else entirely would be well worth finding out imo.

 

[Seamus Haley]

Okay, so here's my question on this whole thing: did you get a necropsy done? There's definately a reason that little dead brb's cloaca is as red as it appears in the post-mortum photos, but whether it has something to do with a prolapse, a very bad probe job, the substrate, or something else entirely would be well worth finding out imo.

That's not a given... The ventral scales of a lot of species, including rainbows, don't color up immediately and are semi-transluscent when the animal is a neonate. If a snake dies dorsal up, ventral down- things settle in the body cavity and in the circulatory system- giving you more blood where gravity left it and, in animals that are small enough, sometimes that red belly look.

's also a fairly common appearance in rainbows with respiratory issues.

And sometimes just a pigmentation tendency in individual animals.

The coloration may be signifigant and indicative of a direct cause of death or it may be an incidental result or it may be nothing, assuming that it leads to a specific conclusion is premature.

Still waiting on those details from Brandon and Chelsea, although the deafening silence is starting to lead me to believe that they can't provide 'em and don't know enough about the species to even lie convincingly.

 

[TrulyCapricious]

You just listed a few other reasons (that could be determined by necropsy) for the cloaca to appear that way, and a necropsy could confirm that any one of those is the case as well. I agree that it isn't necessarily linked to cause of death, but it could be and without a necropsy it can't be excluded, nor can anything else be confirmed. Personally, if you have a dead animal (who died so quickly after appearing so healthy) I think it would be smart to get a necropsy done regardless, and especially before accusing someone else of cold blooded murder by neglect. I mean really, what can it hurt?

 

[Chameleon Company]

I think it would be smart to get a necropsy done regardless, and especially before accusing someone else of cold blooded murder by neglect. I mean really, what can it hurt?

His wallet.

 

[Jim O]

His wallet.

Ding, ding, ding, we have a winner!!!

Who is paying for the necropsy?

 

[CorwinsCritters]

Actually there is no confusion here on my part. This is a board of inquiry. While I believe it is essential to the community to weed out con artists and overall bad people, I don't believe the original intention was for the types of crusades we see here. And the points I made apply to the forums, all sites, as well. This woman might have bad husbandry and it may need to be addressed, but a 35 page crucifixion complete with power plays, ego trips, personal wars/feuds and all the other bs that is seen here and in the many different forums on a regular basis is in my opinion juvenile and counterproductive.

 

[Cat_72]

Actually there is no confusion here on my part. This is a board of inquiry. While I believe it is essential to the community to weed out con artists and overall bad people, I don't believe the original intention was for the types of crusades we see here. And the points I made apply to the forums, all sites, as well. This woman might have bad husbandry and it may need to be addressed, but a 35 page crucifixion complete with power plays, ego trips, personal wars/feuds and all the other bs that is seen here and in the many different forums on a regular basis is in my opinion juvenile and counterproductive.

Some folks tend to get rather upset when they see an animal kept in abhorrent conditions....especially when it ultimately leads to their death.

 

[Chameleon Company]

Jessica,
Want you to know that I did not mean my answer in a snide way at all. I was quite sincere. In hindsight, it may have been wise to have it done earlier in a timely fashion IF David wanted to then use it as evidence for his harsh thread starter, which he has already admited was a bit strong. At the same time, the death of the animal occurred well outside of anyone's TOS, with indications of husbandry that was sub-par which also help to mitigate any responsibility on David's part. While anyone with boids must be concerned about diseases such as IBD, which may warrant a necropsy in any animal death, it likely could not have caused death in such a young BRB. Bottom line, the cost of a necropsy may have very well outweighed its benefit to David.