Chuck Tornetta = SCAM ARTIST!
Well, i recently did a large trade deal with Chuck Tornetta. Big Mistake! I was selling my adult pair of sharp strain animals. Well, i had a awesome 7ft female albino and a 6ft male het. I posted these animals up for sale for $7500. Well, i would say about a half hour after posting them on kingsnake, Chuck called and left a message. Besides his inquiry i had about 8-10 other calls and emails. In Chucks message he said how BADLY he wanted these animals and how he had a trade deal for me that would absolutely blow my mind. I did not want to trade at all. I wanted only cash but i talked to Chuck anyway to see if he had anything entising to offer me. We talked by email during the night of the deal. We exchanged many emails and then we came to an agreement. I will explain what i was getting in a minute but first i will fill you in on how it all went down. When we originally were gonna make the agreement, i told Chuck i would drive 2/3 of the way UNTIL i realized just how far he was from me. A whole 10 hrs to be exact. Anyway, i emailed him to let him know there was no way i could do this, it was just too much as i expected he was
only about 6hrs away, at most (if i remember correctly). Anyway, at first chuck made a big fuss about this because of the absolutely wonderful deal he felt he was giving me. I told Chuck it just was not at all possible. So Chuck then made an agreement he would drive 2/3 of the way. Then he changed his mind and decided we would both just ship the same day as the other by way of US Airways. Anyway, Chuck put a trade value on his animals of $12,250. This seems like a great deal right? Well, it had to be for me to make a trade instead of except cash and i told Chuck this from the beginning. Let me show you the deal page chuck made himself.
From :
[email protected]
To :
[email protected]
Subject :
NEW GAURENTEE AND DEAL PAGE
Date :
Sat, 30 Aug 2003 23:25:40 EDT
Reply Reply All Forward Delete Put in Folder...InboxSent MessagesDraftsTrash Can Printer Friendly Version
Remember you have to drive 3/4 to me.
TRADE DEAL
Chuck Tornetta Reptiles
1. male cb7-03 snow boa (possible blizzard boa) $ 6,500.00
1. male coral cb 8-03 $ 2,000.00
.1 female coral albino cb 5-03 $ 2,500.00
.2 females 67% possible heterozygous snow (albino - anery ) $ 500.00
1. male very clean pastel boa cb 00 $ 750.00
These are my normal retail prices and have not been exaggerated or inflated in anyway. TOTAL 12,250.00 IN TRADE ANIMALS FOR ;
[email protected] Adult female sharp strain albino female $ 7,500.00
and adult male breeder het sharp originally from myself chuck tornetta reptiles
Dallas to meet me 3/4 way on this deal from his house to mine .
All animals on both sides and from both partys must be in good health.
Mite free and well represented
Even trade no additional moneys owed or liabilities after the deal besides a healthy animal guarantee in effect at least 2 DAYS after the deal.
thankyou chuck tornetta reptiles 609-272-8680
Now, this deal that we originally made would have been fine and dandy except for the fact that Chuck LIED about a couple of the animals i was getting and totally misrepresented some of the others. For instance. Chuck told me that he was gonna sell this male snow to Jeremy Stone for $6500. Yup, he told me Jeremy Stone wanted to Buy this animal for $6500. Why? Well, apparently Jeremy Stone wanted this animals because it was a "possible Blizzard" As Chuck labeled it on the trade page above. Now, i dont know about any of you but i have never heard of a snow boa all of the sudden turning into a all white new morph called the "blizzard boa". I may be wrong about this, i dont know. All i know is that chuck said this animal i have, that he produced, was the whitest snow boa TO DATE. That means that it is whiter than any that Pro Exotics have, Pete Kahl, etc. I recieved this animal and i highly doubt it. It IS nice, VERY white, but not a blizzard boa. Now, that was my opinion. What was Jeremy Stones? He said that Chuck was full of it, NONE of it was true. Jeremy did like the animal because it was very white but was not going to buy the animal from Chuck but trade for it. Not $6500 dollars! So, we all know that this animal goes for $5500. Now, that means that Chuck misrepresented the animal, stating that it was possibly something that it was not. Something that he had absolutely NO evidence to back up. There has to be a method to ones madness. Chuck has NO ryhm or reason at all. So i am down 1k so far from what i was supposed to be getting. Chuck LIED when he said Jeremy Stone was gonna buy it for $6500 and jacked it up a 1k. Ok, we got that straight.
Now, the fun continues. Chuck was supposed to be sending me a pair of unrelated CORAL ALBINOS as you can see from the deal page above. Well, it is strange, because when i recieved these animals, i got one coral albino male which we agreed upon and one NORMAL albino female that was NOT agreed upone but instead i was supposed to get a coral female. The grand total for this lied/misrepresented pair was $4500. Get this, well, you can see above but 2k for the actual coral male and $2500 for the NORMAL albino he sent me. Chuck swore up and down what an awesome animal this "coral albino female" was. He told me it was worth every penney for $2500, $500 more than the coral male mind you. He told me she was exceptional. He also said part of the reason he was charging $500 for the coral female (not) was because she was a may 2003 baby. The male was a august 2002 baby. He told me that she was older so she was worth more. In other words, she was a 2003 baby, born in may and only 3 months older than the male BUT this few months made her worth more. That is total BS! Anyway, i was a little surprised when i recieved the animals and saw that the female was a normal albino, much to my dismay. I could not believe it. But i gave Chuck the benefit of the doubt. I emailed Chuck and asked him about it. I did not even say it was not a coral, i asked him why it looked so normal and he said they all start out as normal looking albinos. He told me that the male looked like a coral because he was exceptional. Yet, at only 1 month of age, this male was showing the coral color that the 3 month female was not?? What the heck? Anyway, lied to me, an obvious misrepresntation, he totally ripped me off. I decided to sell these animals and only got a measily $2500 out of them. THAT is a 2k loss. So that is 3k so far. I had many emails stating that i got ripped off at what i payed because the female was a normal, NOT a coral albino. I am no expert at coral albinos, never owning one in my life. So i did not jump to conclusions at first, but the ending verdict is obvious. This brings the total of Chucks trade down to about $9250. At least in my eyes as no one was gonna pay me more than this for them. To be honest, i am not exactly sure what corals go for. I asked the people that emailed me and i have been told several different prices but i am not sure. I would say about $1750-$2000, can anyone tell me? I appreciate any info on these coral albinos that is pertinent to this issue.
Then, on to the rest of the animals. The two female 66% poss DH for snows were as advertised and i am not even sure if $500 is a fair price for them, but as i far as i know, it is fair. The male BCI that i got from Chuck in the trade was not too bad but was misrepresented as well really. The pic he sent me made this animal look EXTREMELY light in color. I asked him about it and he said he was very light. I get him and he is not all that light. He is a real dirty color but he is very clean, i will say that. Anyway, i did get $600 out of him because he is a very nice animal, just not what he lead me to believe. He def charged $150 too much.
Before we did the deal, i told Chuck i tought his prices in the deal page were a little exaggerated. Well, he told me he is not gonna lower his prices for anyone that he charges what he likes. I did not make a fuss, it is up to him to decided what he charges for the animals BUT NOT up to him to decided the actual worth. Someone can advertise something at a certain price all day but if it does not sell after weeks of advertising, is it really worth what one is asking? I for one dont think so. Something is only worth what you can get for it, in my opinion anyway.
In all actuallity i got about 9k worth of animals. This is not bad but he said i was getting $12,250 and that was what i expected. He carried on like i was getting the deal of the century. What a joke. I told him up front it had to be just that for me to do a trade because i did not want to, i wanted cash. He hounded me so much and made me feel bad for him because he was so pathetic that i decided i would help him out and do the trade. All along he was acting like he was doing me a favor. Sure.
Anyway, many of us have dealt with crap like this. It sucks and it is too bad that some people are pathetic enough to take advantage of honest, hard working people. Hard work and honesty... something, some, know nothing about. It is funny, because i had a bad gut feeling about this deal, that Chuck was maybe being dishonest in some way. I told him i was thinking twice about it and he flipped on me. He went off saying i strung him along and this and that. Well, it worked. I did it just to shut him up and because he made me feel guilty. BIG mistake.
I learned a couple lessons. One, no matter how sincere and trustworthy a person seems to be. Dont trust them no matter what! Until they have proved their worth or IF they have some actual well known references that will back them up. For instance, Chuck kept throwing Jeremy Stone's name around, using it to his advantage. Well, what i should have done is called jeremy and asked him about all this at the time of the deal. Jeremy would have told me the truth and i would have told Chuck to get lost. This brings me to number two, take your time. Dont let someone rush a deal as Chuck did to me. He tried to get me to take the add i had on kingsnake off asap. He was rushing me and this and that. He wanted to do the deal as fast as possible before i learned otherwise of his lies. Three, if i am not FULLY educated on a animal/morph i dont usually deal with, DO IT!! I learned i must be familiar with the animals i am going after, as far as pricing, being able to tell the genuine thing (ie coral albino) from a bogus one immediatly etc.
I dont usually do trades, hardly ever. But Chuck suckered me in. I admit it. I have been in the solid contributor/seller/buyer in the this biz for a few years now. Not a LONG time but long enough. It just goes to show that no matter how well you are doing, or who you are, you still cant let your guard down, ever. I have a good list of loyal customers i know i can trust. And i also have a short list of people i would not trust as far as i can throw them.
Also, i did email Chuck about this and a couple other things. One of them including how Chuck put the 7ft female Sharp Strain Albino up for sale about a week or so after he bought her. He BEGGED me for these two animals and then he puts her up for sale. And get this, he put her up for 10k. Can you imagine that?!! What someone charges is their biz but that just does'nt seem right. How payed 6k for the female, how could he possibly charge 10k for just her alone? It's called being very greedy and selfish.
Anyway, the reason for this post was to inform others about this well versed scam artist. I dont like to post here because i think it is highly political and even the good guy often gets nailed and ridiculed for nothing. BUT in this case, it was just too much and i could not let it pass. Please be careful and watch out for this guy.
Good luck to all of you!
Thanks,
Dallas Quarles Reptiles
Well, i recently did a large trade deal with Chuck Tornetta. Big Mistake! I was selling my adult pair of sharp strain animals. Well, i had a awesome 7ft female albino and a 6ft male het. I posted these animals up for sale for $7500. Well, i would say about a half hour after posting them on kingsnake, Chuck called and left a message. Besides his inquiry i had about 8-10 other calls and emails. In Chucks message he said how BADLY he wanted these animals and how he had a trade deal for me that would absolutely blow my mind. I did not want to trade at all. I wanted only cash but i talked to Chuck anyway to see if he had anything entising to offer me. We talked by email during the night of the deal. We exchanged many emails and then we came to an agreement. I will explain what i was getting in a minute but first i will fill you in on how it all went down. When we originally were gonna make the agreement, i told Chuck i would drive 2/3 of the way UNTIL i realized just how far he was from me. A whole 10 hrs to be exact. Anyway, i emailed him to let him know there was no way i could do this, it was just too much as i expected he was
only about 6hrs away, at most (if i remember correctly). Anyway, at first chuck made a big fuss about this because of the absolutely wonderful deal he felt he was giving me. I told Chuck it just was not at all possible. So Chuck then made an agreement he would drive 2/3 of the way. Then he changed his mind and decided we would both just ship the same day as the other by way of US Airways. Anyway, Chuck put a trade value on his animals of $12,250. This seems like a great deal right? Well, it had to be for me to make a trade instead of except cash and i told Chuck this from the beginning. Let me show you the deal page chuck made himself.
From :
[email protected]
To :
[email protected]
Subject :
NEW GAURENTEE AND DEAL PAGE
Date :
Sat, 30 Aug 2003 23:25:40 EDT
Reply Reply All Forward Delete Put in Folder...InboxSent MessagesDraftsTrash Can Printer Friendly Version
Remember you have to drive 3/4 to me.
TRADE DEAL
Chuck Tornetta Reptiles
1. male cb7-03 snow boa (possible blizzard boa) $ 6,500.00
1. male coral cb 8-03 $ 2,000.00
.1 female coral albino cb 5-03 $ 2,500.00
.2 females 67% possible heterozygous snow (albino - anery ) $ 500.00
1. male very clean pastel boa cb 00 $ 750.00
These are my normal retail prices and have not been exaggerated or inflated in anyway. TOTAL 12,250.00 IN TRADE ANIMALS FOR ;
[email protected] Adult female sharp strain albino female $ 7,500.00
and adult male breeder het sharp originally from myself chuck tornetta reptiles
Dallas to meet me 3/4 way on this deal from his house to mine .
All animals on both sides and from both partys must be in good health.
Mite free and well represented
Even trade no additional moneys owed or liabilities after the deal besides a healthy animal guarantee in effect at least 2 DAYS after the deal.
thankyou chuck tornetta reptiles 609-272-8680
Now, this deal that we originally made would have been fine and dandy except for the fact that Chuck LIED about a couple of the animals i was getting and totally misrepresented some of the others. For instance. Chuck told me that he was gonna sell this male snow to Jeremy Stone for $6500. Yup, he told me Jeremy Stone wanted to Buy this animal for $6500. Why? Well, apparently Jeremy Stone wanted this animals because it was a "possible Blizzard" As Chuck labeled it on the trade page above. Now, i dont know about any of you but i have never heard of a snow boa all of the sudden turning into a all white new morph called the "blizzard boa". I may be wrong about this, i dont know. All i know is that chuck said this animal i have, that he produced, was the whitest snow boa TO DATE. That means that it is whiter than any that Pro Exotics have, Pete Kahl, etc. I recieved this animal and i highly doubt it. It IS nice, VERY white, but not a blizzard boa. Now, that was my opinion. What was Jeremy Stones? He said that Chuck was full of it, NONE of it was true. Jeremy did like the animal because it was very white but was not going to buy the animal from Chuck but trade for it. Not $6500 dollars! So, we all know that this animal goes for $5500. Now, that means that Chuck misrepresented the animal, stating that it was possibly something that it was not. Something that he had absolutely NO evidence to back up. There has to be a method to ones madness. Chuck has NO ryhm or reason at all. So i am down 1k so far from what i was supposed to be getting. Chuck LIED when he said Jeremy Stone was gonna buy it for $6500 and jacked it up a 1k. Ok, we got that straight.
Now, the fun continues. Chuck was supposed to be sending me a pair of unrelated CORAL ALBINOS as you can see from the deal page above. Well, it is strange, because when i recieved these animals, i got one coral albino male which we agreed upon and one NORMAL albino female that was NOT agreed upone but instead i was supposed to get a coral female. The grand total for this lied/misrepresented pair was $4500. Get this, well, you can see above but 2k for the actual coral male and $2500 for the NORMAL albino he sent me. Chuck swore up and down what an awesome animal this "coral albino female" was. He told me it was worth every penney for $2500, $500 more than the coral male mind you. He told me she was exceptional. He also said part of the reason he was charging $500 for the coral female (not) was because she was a may 2003 baby. The male was a august 2002 baby. He told me that she was older so she was worth more. In other words, she was a 2003 baby, born in may and only 3 months older than the male BUT this few months made her worth more. That is total BS! Anyway, i was a little surprised when i recieved the animals and saw that the female was a normal albino, much to my dismay. I could not believe it. But i gave Chuck the benefit of the doubt. I emailed Chuck and asked him about it. I did not even say it was not a coral, i asked him why it looked so normal and he said they all start out as normal looking albinos. He told me that the male looked like a coral because he was exceptional. Yet, at only 1 month of age, this male was showing the coral color that the 3 month female was not?? What the heck? Anyway, lied to me, an obvious misrepresntation, he totally ripped me off. I decided to sell these animals and only got a measily $2500 out of them. THAT is a 2k loss. So that is 3k so far. I had many emails stating that i got ripped off at what i payed because the female was a normal, NOT a coral albino. I am no expert at coral albinos, never owning one in my life. So i did not jump to conclusions at first, but the ending verdict is obvious. This brings the total of Chucks trade down to about $9250. At least in my eyes as no one was gonna pay me more than this for them. To be honest, i am not exactly sure what corals go for. I asked the people that emailed me and i have been told several different prices but i am not sure. I would say about $1750-$2000, can anyone tell me? I appreciate any info on these coral albinos that is pertinent to this issue.
Then, on to the rest of the animals. The two female 66% poss DH for snows were as advertised and i am not even sure if $500 is a fair price for them, but as i far as i know, it is fair. The male BCI that i got from Chuck in the trade was not too bad but was misrepresented as well really. The pic he sent me made this animal look EXTREMELY light in color. I asked him about it and he said he was very light. I get him and he is not all that light. He is a real dirty color but he is very clean, i will say that. Anyway, i did get $600 out of him because he is a very nice animal, just not what he lead me to believe. He def charged $150 too much.
Before we did the deal, i told Chuck i tought his prices in the deal page were a little exaggerated. Well, he told me he is not gonna lower his prices for anyone that he charges what he likes. I did not make a fuss, it is up to him to decided what he charges for the animals BUT NOT up to him to decided the actual worth. Someone can advertise something at a certain price all day but if it does not sell after weeks of advertising, is it really worth what one is asking? I for one dont think so. Something is only worth what you can get for it, in my opinion anyway.
In all actuallity i got about 9k worth of animals. This is not bad but he said i was getting $12,250 and that was what i expected. He carried on like i was getting the deal of the century. What a joke. I told him up front it had to be just that for me to do a trade because i did not want to, i wanted cash. He hounded me so much and made me feel bad for him because he was so pathetic that i decided i would help him out and do the trade. All along he was acting like he was doing me a favor. Sure.
Anyway, many of us have dealt with crap like this. It sucks and it is too bad that some people are pathetic enough to take advantage of honest, hard working people. Hard work and honesty... something, some, know nothing about. It is funny, because i had a bad gut feeling about this deal, that Chuck was maybe being dishonest in some way. I told him i was thinking twice about it and he flipped on me. He went off saying i strung him along and this and that. Well, it worked. I did it just to shut him up and because he made me feel guilty. BIG mistake.
I learned a couple lessons. One, no matter how sincere and trustworthy a person seems to be. Dont trust them no matter what! Until they have proved their worth or IF they have some actual well known references that will back them up. For instance, Chuck kept throwing Jeremy Stone's name around, using it to his advantage. Well, what i should have done is called jeremy and asked him about all this at the time of the deal. Jeremy would have told me the truth and i would have told Chuck to get lost. This brings me to number two, take your time. Dont let someone rush a deal as Chuck did to me. He tried to get me to take the add i had on kingsnake off asap. He was rushing me and this and that. He wanted to do the deal as fast as possible before i learned otherwise of his lies. Three, if i am not FULLY educated on a animal/morph i dont usually deal with, DO IT!! I learned i must be familiar with the animals i am going after, as far as pricing, being able to tell the genuine thing (ie coral albino) from a bogus one immediatly etc.
I dont usually do trades, hardly ever. But Chuck suckered me in. I admit it. I have been in the solid contributor/seller/buyer in the this biz for a few years now. Not a LONG time but long enough. It just goes to show that no matter how well you are doing, or who you are, you still cant let your guard down, ever. I have a good list of loyal customers i know i can trust. And i also have a short list of people i would not trust as far as i can throw them.
Also, i did email Chuck about this and a couple other things. One of them including how Chuck put the 7ft female Sharp Strain Albino up for sale about a week or so after he bought her. He BEGGED me for these two animals and then he puts her up for sale. And get this, he put her up for 10k. Can you imagine that?!! What someone charges is their biz but that just does'nt seem right. How payed 6k for the female, how could he possibly charge 10k for just her alone? It's called being very greedy and selfish.
Anyway, the reason for this post was to inform others about this well versed scam artist. I dont like to post here because i think it is highly political and even the good guy often gets nailed and ridiculed for nothing. BUT in this case, it was just too much and i could not let it pass. Please be careful and watch out for this guy.
Good luck to all of you!
Thanks,
Dallas Quarles Reptiles
