Chuck Tornetta from NJ - Classic bait and switch

[SPJ]

Hi. Just my un-asked for thoughts -

The advertisements were up for some time.
Eggs are heavy. My king laid a clutch that weighed 315 grams. Ball clutches are undoubtedly heavier.

I think the box used was gross (I always use a new box when shipping herps) and I think that the BPs should have been in individual proper snake bags and I think there should have been a clear statement that the BPs may not be 1KG due to recent egg laying, but I don't think that this was a complete rip off.

I do however think this whole thing could have been avoided if the seller simply had weighed the snakes and contacted the buyer and let him know the actual weight before shipping them. Then the buyer could have decided for himself whether the $15 he saved was worth it (not IMHO - it will take more than $15.00 of food to get them all to a kg) and all this mess could have been avoided.

It does look like Chuck compensated with another snake (I've not read entire thread) so hopefully that means all is square, hopefully he will weigh his snakes in the future before shipping and make sure that things are what the buyer expects.

I think you need to read the entire thread. Chuck tried to screw him over, got caught, and is only sending another snake to try and "save face".

 

[DaveyFig]

I think there should have been a clear statement that the BPs may not be 1KG due to recent egg laying, but I don't think that this was a complete rip off.

The ads were up a long time. However, they contained a clear statment that they were over 1000 grams. If they were gravid when they were weighed for the ads, that is deception. If he knew they were gravid, why not wait until they dropped to weigh and advertise? Intentional deception?If they were not gravid when first posted, why were the ads not updated with proper weights or removed altogether? I Don't care if they each crapped 500g golden nuggets, they were not the weight at which they were posted. Hell, if the 1000g weight included the eggs, how many babies does the OP get? He bought them!

 

[FunkyRes]

Is it possible they were > 1kg before they were gravid?
Females often bulk up before breeding, and then do not eat again until after they lay.

I'm not defending the seller, he was in the wrong - but it wasn't a total rip off, and the price in the original advertisement was altered so the terms of the original advertisement were already not being adhered to.

 

[DaveyFig]

Is it possible they were > 1kg before they were gravid?
Females often bulk up before breeding, and then do not eat again until after they lay.

I'm not defending the seller, he was in the wrong - but it wasn't a total rip off, and the price in the original advertisement was altered so the terms of the original advertisement were already not being adhered to.

Sure, its possible...if he went 4 months without weighing them meanwhile posting them at their pre breeding weight, for a post lay shipping.

By your logic, If you had an ad for an albino, and I offered you less than you were asking, you have a right to send me a pastel. Once I offered lower than you were asking, even if you agreed to it you don't have to stick to it because I didn't adhere to the terms of your ad?

There are no terms in an ad. Buyers and sellers come to terms based on the ad. If he agreed to 50 cents for 1000gram females, he still has to send 1000 gram females!

 

[critical bill]

the price in the original advertisement was altered so the terms of the original advertisement were already not being adhered to.[/QUOT

So basically, if I negotiate a lower price for an advertised product...then the seller has the right to substitute the product that was advertised and its ok?

 

[FunkyRes]

Sure, its possible...if he went 4 months without weighing them meanwhile posting them at their pre breeding weight, for a post lay shipping.

By your logic, If you had an ad for an albino, and I offered you less than you were asking, you have a right to send me a pastel. Once I offered lower than you were asking, even if you agreed to it you don't have to stick to it because I didn't adhere to the terms of your ad?

There are no terms in an ad. Buyers and sellers come to terms based on the ad. If he agreed to 50 cents for 1000gram females, he still has to send 1000 gram females!

No. I said nothing about the seller having a right.
Please re-read my posts where I stated that the seller was in the wrong before you start making assumptions about what rights my logic gives the seller.

Thank you.

 

[KaHane]

KaHane--Is there a thread about your purchase from Chuck Tornetta?

Did Chuck say, "She was proven-- proven to have dead babies."

Oh, I'm bad.

Mark what are you getting at man?

 

[mvite]

KaHane-

Sorry to be vague and silly---I am trying to let this go---and at the same time--I'd like to further document the scumminess of Chuck Tornetta Reptiles. In dealing with this guy on the phone and email---I know he's gross.

I wish I'd never responded to his ad---and like someone said earlier---even though I got something I didn't want---at least I got something. Your scenario sounds like a truly premeditated scam--$10K could CRUSH a person---and the fact you are out of the country makes it all seem possible.

I just want the world to know as much of your scenario as possible--as long as it is 100% true-----If it is, Chuck Tornetta should be run out of town with pitchforks and torches.

(that's a metaphor--In no way do I intend to use pitchforks or torches on Chuck Tornetta. I also don't suggest that anyone else uses pitchforks or torches on Chuck Tornetta.)

 

[mvite]

856g female received from Chuck Tornetta.

 

[chuck tornetta reptiles]

FREE SNAKES HAS ARIVED !

Ok ,
Does anyone think its about time to STOP calling me a bad guy over this ?
I made the situation better , rite.
I mean sending the free snake was eagerly accepted by Mark himself on the telephone and from what Mark himself told me .
Everything would be squared up.
And he would be satisfyed with recieving another girl.
I did not read the whole post but did someone say them girls produced dead babys? WOW. Them eggs are still in the incubator. looking good.
Well
I did what I thaught would make it rite, and what Mark told me he would like on the phone.
The way I see it , actual gram weight was the big factor here rite.
Well if thats the case 2 of the girls were 225 grams lite rite .
Thats 450 grams ,owed !
By your way of thinking , Man your 400 grams ahead now.
I did the rite thing here ,Thanks are no longer in order as I doubt this witchhunt of a thread will see anything my way.
But you can feel free to STOP talking bad at anytime.
I mean really guys , with all the screwed up things that can happen buying reptiles , real scam artists , people stealing money , ect.... ect....
was this really this bad. Of course not and you all know it.
Dont loose track of the reality of what happened here .
Mark baught 3 snakes , I sold them as proven breeders. Mark noticed the ad he responded to said 1000 grams and over , 2 of the snakes were lite from the breeding season .
I DID NOT REALIZE BECAUSE I DID NOT WEIGH THEM ,
I offered to take them back for bigger girls ,
customer asked for a refund , I said no refunds but did offer to send a free snake to make up for the error .
customer agreed that he would be satisfyed with the free snake and the thread telling people how bad I am . OK Whatever. I sent him the free snake and paid the shipping 50.00 out of pocket.
Now as I see it , The customer should be satisfyed . Or at least at ease with the turn out as all 4 of the females will be up to par for the upcomming season.
I have tried to call mark on the phone but only get his machiene
I will try again.As I am A respectable hobbiest and like to know the situation is over.
Thank`s to all who have replied to this thread.
Chuck,
Chuck Tornetta Reptiles.
609-402-1405

 

[Lucille]

. Mark noticed the ad he responded to said 1000 grams and over , 2 of the snakes were lite from the breeding season .
I DID NOT REALIZE BECAUSE I DID NOT WEIGH THEM ,

A very basic fact of business, you need to tell the truth in print. If you say 1,000 grams it needs to be 1,000 grams. Publishing a fact and then trying to say you need not adhere to it because you didn't check is the lamest excuse I ever heard.

Why would anyone ever buy from you again? You might not feel like looking at the scales the day you send THEIR snakes.

 

[DaveyFig]

Ok ,
Does anyone think its about time to STOP calling me a bad guy over this ?
I made the situation better , rite.
I mean sending the free snake was eagerly accepted by Mark himself on the telephone and from what Mark himself told me .
Everything would be squared up.
And he would be satisfyed with recieving another girl.
I did not read the whole post but did someone say them girls produced dead babys? WOW. Them eggs are still in the incubator. looking good.
Well
I did what I thaught would make it rite, and what Mark told me he would like on the phone.
The way I see it , actual gram weight was the big factor here rite.
Well if thats the case 2 of the girls were 225 grams lite rite .
Thats 450 grams ,owed !
By your way of thinking , Man your 400 grams ahead now.
I did the rite thing here ,Thanks are no longer in order as I doubt this witchhunt of a thread will see anything my way.
But you can feel free to STOP talking bad at anytime.
I mean really guys , with all the screwed up things that can happen buying reptiles , real scam artists , people stealing money , ect.... ect....
was this really this bad. Of course not and you all know it.
Dont loose track of the reality of what happened here .
Mark baught 3 snakes , I sold them as proven breeders. Mark noticed the ad he responded to said 1000 grams and over , 2 of the snakes were lite from the breeding season .
I DID NOT REALIZE BECAUSE I DID NOT WEIGH THEM ,
I offered to take them back for bigger girls ,
customer asked for a refund , I said no refunds but did offer to send a free snake to make up for the error .
customer agreed that he would be satisfyed with the free snake and the thread telling people how bad I am . OK Whatever. I sent him the free snake and paid the shipping 50.00 out of pocket.
Now as I see it , The customer should be satisfyed . Or at least at ease with the turn out as all 4 of the females will be up to par for the upcomming season.
I have tried to call mark on the phone but only get his machiene
I will try again.As I am A respectable hobbiest and like to know the situation is over.
Thank`s to all who have replied to this thread.
Chuck,
Chuck Tornetta Reptiles.
609-402-1405

No Bad Guy , it isn't time to stop calling you a Bad Guy, until you stop being a Bad Guy with some consitancy.
Are you really surprised that he isn't talking to you now Chuck? You threatened him with harassment charges if he contacted you!
Nobody said the balls had dead babies. They said that your sharp strain albino group that you sold to KaHane, that historically dropped babies before going full term were sold as PROVEN BREEDERS, that in turn dropped premature babies for him. You didn't read the whole thread, Bad Guy, but you should.
You realized that the balls were small, just didn't know the gram weight, but refused to send him the girls who might have actually been 1000g. because he got a price break! YAY! Now with this free one he is supposed to be happy, because instead of 2 that don't have the weight to breed, he has 3!
Good stuff....BAD GUY!

 

[mvite]

856g female received from Chuck Tornetta.

Chuck--You said the po-po (police) advised you to tell me not to contact you.

Please don't call me---you creep me out. I am deleting whatever message you left for me. Let's write this off to bad judgement on both sides.

You'll have to address your other alleged customer above, KaHane, about the alleged dead baby breeder they purchased from you in '05.

Thanks again Fauna Friends!

Mark

 

[SPJ]

Why didnt I send mark larger animals ,
Simple he is cheap He talked me down on my already low sale price

Well cheap a$$ , next time dont try to get something for nothing and you might get larger animals.

I DID NOT REALIZE BECAUSE I DID NOT WEIGH THEM

You sent smaller snakes because all you cared about was the money.
You said you sent smaller snakes than the ones advertised because you agreed to sell them for less.
Now you say you didn't know they were smaller because you didn't weigh them.
You can't keep your story straight and have prven to everyone here that your word cannot be trusted.

 

[The BoidSmith]

The way I see it , actual gram weight was the big factor here rite.
Well if thats the case 2 of the girls were 225 grams lite rite .
Thats 450 grams ,owed !
By your way of thinking , Man your 400 grams ahead now.

Anyone that orders a 2,000 g breedable female can receive ten 250 g females instead and still be ahead of the game, a novel and interesting business model.

 

[mvite]

I've got 4-5 feedings in them and 2 of the first 3 still aren't at their advertised minimum weights of 1000g.

If anyone is local and would like one for free, PM me. Four of them are wasting space in my rack- I could have done without the "extra".

 

[mvite]

woo hoo !!

Fauna power strikes again as a genuine, bonafide, certified newbie to the hobby has taken the free gal.

I will ask her to post to verify when she gets her at the Cheswick Pa show in September!!!

Thanks!!

 

[Shadera]

I just wanted to verify that I claimed this gal. I also purchased one of the other girls off Mark. He's done a great job feeding them up in the time he's had them, but I do have to complain about big ol Bertha's lack of bladder control. Goodness Mark, her bag was sopping wet again by the time we got home, too.

Just a couple horrible, quick pics I snapped as I put them into their Q tubs. They're now cozy in their hides.

Thank you for these two beautiful ladies.

985 grams

1333 grams (on an empty bladder)

 

[pinkrosesandagraveyard]

Glad to see that the story ended happily, but I will be on the lookout for ads by this guy just because of the numerous other "bad guy" posts about him.

 

[mvite]

Shadera-
It was great meeting you! I am glad that I was able to hook you up with the "extra" females I had.

However, I must warn you--I think Bertha is cooking up a 250g surprise for you. She ate a JUMBO rat a 10 days ago and she's pink on the belly---so be careful around that next shed skin!!

I'm glad that I found someone new to the hobby who is just starting her collection! You saw this thread just in time--BEFORE you bought 12 new animals!!!

Ghosts, Lavender Albino, Spiders, Mojos, normals---wow--you sure bought a lot of new snakes!!!

Glad to see that the story ended happily, but I will be on the lookout for ads by this guy just because of the numerous other "bad guy" posts about him.

I think that's pretty much the moral of this story.