Corn ID please

[DAND]

Information I came across

Hybrids is a cross between animals of different species. Most Corn hybrids are crossed to other members of the Colubridae family. The snakes that Corns are crossed to may be in the same family, but are different species, adhering to the definition of hybrid.

Jungle- Jungle Corns are the cross between Corns and California Kingsnakes.

Super- This is another type of California King/Corn cross, but unlike the Jungle Corn, commonly accepted as the 50/50 cross, these snakes are 75% Corn.

Turbo- This is a cross between Gophersnakes and Cornsnakes. They easily get 6 feet long, and sometimes longer.

Cornduran- Corndurans are Corns crossed to Honduran Milksnakes.

Sinaloan- These snakes are crosses between Corns and Sinaloan Milksnakes.

Intergrades are defined as a subspecific cross. This means that it is a cross of two animals that are the same species, but different subspecies. This is the case when crossing any animals from the genus Pantherophis, including Ratsnakes, Fox Snakes, and Cornsnakes, as well as all their subspecies.

Buttercream- The combination of Amelanism and Caramel genes in the Emoryi/Corn cross.

Cinnamon- Cinnamon Corns are the Hypomelanistic mutation of the Emoryi/Corn cross.

Creamsicle- Is an Emory Rat and Cornsnake cross.

Frosted- These snakes are generally crosses between Grey Ratsnakes and Cornsnakes.

RootBeer- This is the name for the Normal coloration of the cross between Emory's Rats and Corns.

 

[Leighanne]

Question

Ok, I see your list up here. Wich other Snakes can or do cross breed? Like, non-venomous, and venomous. Such as a Copper head and a Corn? We have both in Ohio.What about with Boas, and Pythons, and Japanese Rat Snakes, and Corns? Does anyone here breed, and could also provide a pic of a good old 100% Normal Corn Snake? I saw somebody talking about being a purist, and I haven't heard anybody speak of breeding normals. Why not? They were first.

 

[TripleMoonsExotic]

non-venomous, and venomous

No

Boas, and Pythons

No

Does anyone here breed, and could also provide a pic of a good old 100% Normal Corn Snake?

Not many people breed simply Normal cornsnakes because their is no profit in them and their are so many other beautiful mutations available.

Here's a pic of my Normal female (het Amel, Anery, Caramel).

I saw somebody talking about being a purist

Saying your a purist simply means that they do not generally agree with creating hybrids/intergrades. I myself am not against hybrids/intergrades, but I would insist that if their is a chance of a cornsnake I'm purchasing to not be pure, I want that information disclosed to me.

 

[Joejr14]

People need to be VERY careful about labeling a snake a creamsicle based on appearance. It's very possible that the snake in question is an amel het caramel, which would explain the very yellow coloration and the confusion regarding the morph.

 

[TripleMoonsExotic]

But on the other side of the fence, Joe...

People need to be VERY careful about labeling a snake pure when they don't know.

 

[Joejr14]

But on the other side of the fence, Joe...

People need to be VERY careful about labeling a snake pure when they don't know.

I disagree. The snake was sold to him as a butter, not a creamsicle. The seller said nothing about the animal being a hybrid/intergrade or anything other than a pure cornsnake. No reason to assume that the snake is not.

Like I said, it's very possible that the snake is amel het caramel, that would explain the yellow coloration and could explain the possible mix up regarding morph especially if the seller doesn't really understand genetics.

Sure the buyer can label all hatchlings as amels and explain the circumstances, but I don't believe that he's responsible for saying it 'might' not be a pure corn. Heck, there's many snakes out there that 'might' not be pure.

 

[TripleMoonsExotic]

I think the fact that the breeder (or petstore) that sold it can't tell the difference between a Butter and an Amel would be a red flag. I would also be inclined to think that the seller doesn't even know what a hybrid/intergrade is.

Heck, there's many snakes out there that 'might' not be pure.

I 100% agree. However, that wouldn't stop me from correctly labeling my stock to provide all the information possible to a buyer to let them know if I have any knowledge that it might be "unpure."

As I said from the beginning, I am not against hybrids. I produced a clutch of Creamsicle het Motley this season without batting an eye. However, they will be sold as what they are.

 

[norsmis]

I agree with Stephanie on this. I have nothing against people breeding the hybrid/intergrades but I personally do not care for them. I would want to know if there is a CHANCE the snake is not pure corn.

 

[Great Lakes Reptiles]

I'm going to get some better pics (not from my cell) in a few days, when my ??? corn comes out of shed I'll try to get some out door pic with good lighting. IM hopping that might help for a better ID.....PS this is going to be the last herp I buy from a pet store. thanks guys Bill.L

 

[Joejr14]

I agree with Stephanie on this. I have nothing against people breeding the hybrid/intergrades but I personally do not care for them. I would want to know if there is a CHANCE the snake is not pure corn.

Okay, so what if I went out into the National Forest and captured a corn snake. There are A LOT of grey rats around here. How can I be sure that the cornsnake I captured doesn't have grey rat blood in it? Should I label that snake's offspring for sale as 'possibly not being pure'?

Kathy started her candy cane line with creamsicles and miami's....how many people have bought candy canes from her not knowing that? How many people have crossed those snakes to others, therefore creating more 'unpure' snakes?

See what I mean? There's a possibility that every snake isn't pure. While I totally agree that you should label a known hybrid/intergrade as such, I think one needs to be careful about labeling suspected snakes as such.

 

[norsmis]

Okay, so what if I went out into the National Forest and captured a corn snake. There are A LOT of grey rats around here. How can I be sure that the cornsnake I captured doesn't have grey rat blood in it? Should I label that snake's offspring for sale as 'possibly not being pure'?

Kathy started her candy cane line with creamsicles and miami's....how many people have bought candy canes from her not knowing that? How many people have crossed those snakes to others, therefore creating more 'unpure' snakes?

See what I mean? There's a possibility that every snake isn't pure. While I totally agree that you should label a known hybrid/intergrade as such, I think one needs to be careful about labeling suspected snakes as such.

Yes Kathy Love did and she says this on her website. If I even suspect the snake is not pure corn, I will say so. And yes, if you have a wild caught snake that you think has crossed in the wild with a grey rat then you should say so. This has gotten out of hand with other snakes also like Hog Island Boas. I see them posted all the time as Hog Islands when they are obviously crossed with BCC or BCI blood.

 

[Joejr14]

Yes Kathy Love did and she says this on her website. If I even suspect the snake is not pure corn, I will say so. And yes, if you have a wild caught snake that you think has crossed in the wild with a grey rat then you should say so. This has gotten out of hand with other snakes also like Hog Island Boas. I see them posted all the time as Hog Islands when they are obviously crossed with BCC or BCI blood.

You're missing my point.

What if you DON'T know? Should we always err on the side of caution and say, 'this snake might not be pure?!' I'm sure a very large portion of the snake population in captivity 'might' not be pure. How many people own Kathy's candy canes and have no idea there might be emoryi blood in there?