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Info Craig Hughes (twohy4you)

Abby said:
Yep :thumbsup:


Harald - yes I am confident in my ability to identify them. However, since they are new and not many have been produced, what falls within the normal variation of the morph is still relatively unknown. My own opinion and that of others is that they are indeed, BUT I want to be SURE.

(and yes, all the ones I have available for sale I am 100% SURE on.)

I honestly don't know why he is insisting there are 5 - I've told him from the beginning the numbers I gave in the original post.
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So, how many Huffmans are there? If there are just three, then all this hooplah seems sort of silly to bring here, doesn't it? And why would his original understanding of the loan - splitting with you picking first, him second, you third and so on be such a big deal? With three Huffmans, you would have gotten 2 with your first two picks and he'd get one and then he'd get one normal and you'd get the extra.

clutch3.jpg


Because that seems so silly to bicker about in a 3 Huffman clutch, that's why I think most of us believed that the entire clutch was Huffmans. You said your friends you consulted before advised one Huffman and all the normals, but you only offered him one snake - and then he asked about the other three, assuming he was doing his "turn" at picking.

That's how "I" drew the conclusion that the rest must also be Huffmans, or this would be a non-issue. :shrug01:
 
well sorry people but i have a 12 hour a day job and the last 2 days i've been in an E85 refinery. not cell phone use or computers allowed. when i get home i take care of my 5 year old that just lost her first tooth and started kindergarden today(WAY MORE IMPORTANT) now she is laying down so i will put my 2 cents in.

A. out of 3 females abby says she has gotten almost 98% huffmans. can she really judge them? i know i couldn't so why not give me the male i picked (that does look like a huffman) and the yellow belly or one of the other "huffmans".

she texted me and said i will pick three and you can have the two left over. more b.s.

from the get go i said i will bring you as many normal females you want me to for 50/50.
she gets first pic.

I am willing to go pick up two bps. but A. not the ones she picks out.B. the male i picked(wich she already had a holdback on another male on her iherp page from the same clutch noted) and either the yellow belly or another from the same clutch. don't give a crap if male or female. C. i want pictures emailed to me before i even go pick them up so i know i'm getting what i am suppose to be getting.

If this sounds good to her i will go get them.


D. Anyone want the leftover for a great deal i have no use for it.
 
twohy4you said:
well sorry people but i have a 12 hour a day job and the last 2 days i've been in an E85 refinery. not cell phone use or computers allowed. when i get home i take care of my 5 year old that just lost her first tooth and started kindergarden today(WAY MORE IMPORTANT) now she is laying down so i will put my 2 cents in.

A. out of 3 females abby says she has gotten almost 98% huffmans. can she really judge them? i know i couldn't so why not give me the male i picked (that does look like a huffman) and the yellow belly or one of the other "huffmans".

she texted me and said i will pick three and you can have the two left over. more b.s.

from the get go i said i will bring you as many normal females you want me to for 50/50.
she gets first pic.

I am willing to go pick up two bps. but A. not the ones she picks out.B. the male i picked(wich she already had a holdback on another male on her iherp page from the same clutch noted) and either the yellow belly or another from the same clutch. don't give a crap if male or female. C. i want pictures emailed to me before i even go pick them up so i know i'm getting what i am suppose to be getting.

If this sounds good to her i will go get them.


D. Anyone want the leftover for a great deal i have no use for it.
Click to expand...

I see this as fair , but really this thread shows who to stay away from and why even breeder loans Between "friends" are risky.
 
twohy4you said:
can she really judge them? i know i couldn't so why not give me the male i picked (that does look like a huffman) and the yellow belly or one of the other "huffmans".
Click to expand...
Because, by your own terms, Abby gets first pick....and letting you choose what's behind door number 3 (the yellowbelly) is entirely at her discretion because it wasn't part of the deal.
she texted me and said i will pick three and you can have the two left over. more b.s
Click to expand...
.
No argument...and, in fact, if that is accurate, it would again raise the question of what the babies are.

from the get go i said i will bring you as many normal females you want me to for 50/50.
she gets first pic.
With all due respect - consider yourself lucky that she bred that one female for you on an even split; especially if it was going to involve snakes with a decent value. Realistically, producing extra babies just becomes extra work, and when that work is just to help out a friend, where is the benefit to the breeder? Karma? Not worth it, lol. If the females you were offering gave Abby a chance to make things she hadn't already produced, or couldn't with minimal investment, it could be seen as mutually beneficial.
I am willing to go pick up two bps. but A. not the ones she picks out.B. the male i picked(wich she already had a holdback on another male on her iherp page from the same clutch noted)
Click to expand...
Stop right there. Again, by your own terms, Abby gets first pick....and if she chooses the only snake of the clutch that you like, you lose.
i want pictures emailed to me before i even go pick them up so i know i'm getting what i am suppose to be getting.
Click to expand...
You've already stated that you can't identify a Huffman. What would you do if Abby just sent you an email of 4 babies - stating that she removed her first pick from the group - and told you to make your first selection? (OR, if she did the same thing with them sitting right in front of you).

So, did Abby tell you from the start that there were 2 or 3 Huffmans, as she claimed? If so, why have you repeatedly posted that all 5 were?
Click to expand...
Click to expand...
 
Harald, if they weren't all Huffmans we wouldn't be having this post. remember she said i could have one huffman and all of the normals earlier on. i'm leaving for work but when i get home i will dig up the message that says there are atleast 3 and she wasn't sure about the other two. the picture is so that i can see the pattern on the snake and compare it to the ones out of my clutch.
if she wants the one i picked first, your right i lose that pick. no biggie.
 
hhmoore said:
With all due respect - consider yourself lucky that she bred that one female for you on an even split; especially if it was going to involve snakes with a decent value. Realistically, producing extra babies just becomes extra work, and when that work is just to help out a friend, where is the benefit to the breeder? Karma? Not worth it, lol. If the females you were offering gave Abby a chance to make things she hadn't already produced, or couldn't with minimal investment, it could be seen as mutually beneficial.

Stop right there. Again, by your own terms, Abby gets first pick....and if she chooses the only snake of the clutch that you like, you lose.
Click to expand...

Thanks Harald. :)

hhmoore said:
So, did Abby tell you from the start that there were 2 or 3 Huffmans, as she claimed? If so, why have you repeatedly posted that all 5 were?
Click to expand...

I do not remember ever claiming that 3 were definitely Huffmans. I specifically remember saying 2 definitely were and the other 3 might be. To clear anything up, this is how my 3 huffman clutches went:

Normal x Huffman - 5 Huffmans. 1.4.

Normal (Craig's) x Huffman - 1.1 Huffmans, 2.1 that look like they could be, but again I am not 100%. I wanted to see them grow more as well as the other definites in my other clutches to be sure.

Lesser x Huffman - 1.2 Huffmans, 1.0 Lesser Huffman, 0.1 Lesser and 1.0 that looks similar to the possibles in the 2nd clutch. Again, waiting to see him shed and grow a little.

I have been nothing but honest in this thread. Unfortunately some of the people posting here have been biased against me (or the morph, for that matter) for quite some time reasons unknown and seem to be responding to those things instead of looking at it from both perspectives.

I can see why Craig would be upset if he truly believed he was getting 50/50 - but he should also be able to see where I am coming from as well, especially noting that we didn't re-hash the deal and I did attempt to but he didn't answer me or bring it up until way late in the game. Like I mentioned before I brought this here because everyone I spoke to beforehand agreed with me. There is a lot of grey area here. We both made mistakes.
 
Craig - I was serious when I asked what you would do if she plopped the babies on the table with no explanation of what was what (other than male/female). You've said you didn't want her picking for you....she'd be well within her rights to lay them out, and let you pick for yourself.
I'll be honest - I just sent Abby a PM...while it wasn't sent for this reason, in it I expressed the above; and that I would be inclined to make the split now, and not worry about identifying the other babies. Whether it is done via email, or in person, the two of you should make your selections. She can worry about identifying hers later, and you can do whatever you want with the ones you pick. Once the selection is done, take your animals and bring this to an end.
 
so what are the animals in the clutch abby. you have said you can identify them. are they all huffmans or not??? even if there not all huffmans and some are normals 50/50 is still fine with me. i'm giving you a very easy choice by letting me have second pick and the yellow belly. Why won't you answer. Are you even going to give me two snakes???

yes if she layed them all out i would pick. with her getting first pick. that would not be an issue.
 
I think you would only be entitled to 2 from that clutch, since the yellow belly was not produced by either the male or the female.
 
For the record, I don't care about the Huffmans myself, but just because I wondered if almost everyone in the thread were ALL biased because of our supposed knowledge of Huffmans or not.. I asked 7 people who don't know a darn thing about morphs in snakes.

I presented it as unbiased as possible to the first two, then switched to trying to put them in Abby's shoes and attempting to bias them for giving only a single snake. I even suggested that the Huffmans would be worth a LOT, and that since his original deal would be for perhaps $200 and the animals he'd be getting now would be worth $2K+ that it would be fair to only give him one... and they all still insisted the original deal was valid because it wasn't renegociated.

All of them immediately replied that the original deal of 50/50 with Abby getting the 1st, 3rd and 5th picks, and Craig getting 2nd and 4th picks was the only fair deal.

Someone pointed out when I suggested the deal was null and void with the change of male that if that were true, would it still be fair if Abby said that "Well you didn't renegociate the deal, so you don't get anything at all." Since the original deal supposedly doesn't count at all? Well, no. I hope that no one thinks that would have been fair. Two pointed out that Abby chose which replacement male to use, not Craig.

It was interesting to me as I tried to phrase the deal in any way I could(and remain completely with only the base facts)to influence them in choosing to give a single snake OR Abby choosing her favorite three and giving Craig whichever two she didn't want.... and they still never budged.

Not that they, or I, or anyone in the thread can force any decision. But I'm happy in my own opinion and I know what I would feel were I in either Abby or Craig's shoes right now. I'm very secure in knowing that I wouldn't renege on the original deal just becuase the hatchlings changed in value.
 
twohy4you said:
so what are the animals in the clutch abby. you have said you can identify them. are they all huffmans or not??? even if there not all huffmans and some are normals 50/50 is still fine with me. i'm giving you a very easy choice by letting me have second pick and the yellow belly. Why won't you answer. Are you even going to give me two snakes???

yes if she layed them all out i would pick. with her getting first pick. that would not be an issue.
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Sent you a message on iHerp, but for the rest:

He's getting his 2 snakes (as I've said now many times). I get first pick, he gets 2nd.
 
Abby said:
Yep, would've been several days ago had Craig just responded to my messages instead of avoiding them :rolleyes:
Click to expand...

For the record I totally screwed up my last post....it should have said:
"Okay so it's over.....again?? Thank God"
That's better. Glad to hear it:thumbsup:
 
I'm glad you guys finally worked it out. Craig I must say that if you have no use or intention to keep the "leftovers" then as a freind you should have sucked it up since you have no use for the additional snake. I'm also confused that if Abby thought 3 or 2 were normals, then wouldn't Craig have received his 1 confirmed Huff and 2 or 3 other snakes? Abby I'm sorry if you think I was one of the people biased against you or the morph, not my intention. I hastily posted my opinion without fully fleshing it out. I simply felt that the original deal still stood and that my opinion of the morphs value and it's relevance to the deal differed from yours. I wish you the best of luck as being one of the first people in on this new morph. I do want to point out that at the end of page 5 is the first time you've stated that you would give him 2nd pick. The rest of the time it sounded like you planned to give him the leftovers, not saying that was what you intended just that it sounded that way from your posts on here. If your tone or articulation of your intents was differant in any private conversations then great, but based on Craigs last reply I don't beleive it was. I'm sorry you two had to fight over this, but glad I saw what can happen, as I have several freinds who intend to do breeder loans with me and each other. This will serve as a cautionary tale. Best of luck to you both.
 
Abby said:
He's getting his 2 snakes (as I've said now many times). I get first pick, he gets 2nd.
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If I'm not mistaken, this is the FIRST time you've posted the offer of giving him 2 snakes with him getting the 2nd pick. I'm glad it seems to be getting worked out though. Instead of continuing to blame each other maybe both of you could just finish the deal and go back to being friends.
 
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