Creating an “elite members club” or whatever you want to name it.

[Stardust]

Um Wes, I do not think I can deny access to or grant it on my forum.
I did not know that was possible.

 

[KelliH]

What exactly would the point be?

There already is such a thing in place, after all, it is called being a paid member.

I think a seperate forum for only paid members is a bad idea.

I feel that requiring full names on BOI posts is sufficient. The rest of the forums here are merely discussion forums. No reason to require full names in a discussion about blue tongue skinks or rainbow boas, is there?

 

[The BoidSmith]

Kelli,

It's not requesting full names, it's requesting real identities that I'm after.

Rich, if the headache and work of doing so is too much for you right now, why not outsourcing it? There might be someone willing to do that job. Let him/her have the proceeds, maybe it doesn't amount much to you but $1 times 5,000 people it's a nice Christmas bonus!

Regards.

 

[Wilomn]

Um Wes, I do not think I can deny access to or grant it on my forum.
I did not know that was possible.

Interesting. For some reason I can't get into lucille's when I'm signed in so there must be some way to keep people out.

Unless you're implying that she has recieved some sort of preferential treatment which we ALL know is well nigh impossible here at Fauna.

 

[WebSlave]

Mike, Rich has made it abundantly clear that many things would never occur here.

Some of these things have then occured.

Yes, they have Wes. Are you suggesting that I do not have that flexibility in the way I run this site? When evidence and opinions indicate that a change in my attitude and policy is perhaps needed I should just ignore such things?

Unless you're implying that she has recieved some sort of preferential treatment which we ALL know is well nigh impossible here at Fauna.

Oh it certainly will happen when I desire it to be so. Such things as unbanning someone PERMANENTLY BANNED would likely fall within that category, wouldn't you say, Wes? And I have done favors for other people, or done things that may have been beneficial to them in one way or another when I felt like doing so. I think I am allowed such administrative perks, eh?

Rich, if the headache and work of doing so is too much for you right now, why not outsourcing it? There might be someone willing to do that job. Let him/her have the proceeds, maybe it doesn't amount much to you but $1 times 5,000 people it's a nice Christmas bonus!

Regards.

I believe you are WAY overestimating how many people would sign up for such a thing. If more than 100 people signed up for it, I would be shocked. And once the person assigned to do this gets tired of it, or fed up for one reason or another, or perhaps just gets tired of the unavoidable headaches that will arise, and tells me they are moving on, that the $67 they earned just isn't worth it, dumping it in my lap, then what?

 

[Chameleon Company]

Not an altogether new idea.

I will use Wes as an example, as he fits the best. BTW, for being someone who I believe was first on Wes' "Ignore" list, it is with great satisfaction that I see he cannot post in a thread, regardless of my non-participation there, without mentioning my name. Seems I own you W .......

Dan, I'm assuming that your goal would be more self-accountability. Nice in theory. While it may rid a thread of some petty sniping, we have enough such nonsense from regular members anyway. If someone is a known entity, but has little if any reputation at risk to begin with, what have they to lose by making an ass of themselves here ? Put another way, you can't lose what you never had. Overwhelmingly large numbers of people in the herp community will not participate here because it is as the WWW Mike described, and real members made it that way. Look at the posts here so far in this thread. Your thread starter, and many of the following posts, were serious. To no one's surprise, who decided to bring in the manure ? Happy Birthday Wes ! Maybe myself or Lucille, etc, could call him some names back, etc. Whoopee. What fun.

The primary business of the site might be in the number of hits. Stupidity generates more hits than intelligence, just as more folks will watch Jerry Springer than NOVA. That's an unfortunate reality for some of us. What a few of us are losing the stomach for is more of the worsening nonsense. Should the site continue more in the direction of the WWW, and to be more frank about it, the gutter, while it may produce record numbers of hits and trash posts, we can both imagine who amongst us will be here rolling in the mud and loving life, and who will have moved on. That's life.

 

[Stardust]

Hmm, odd.
Personally if someone did not want me to go into their space odds are I wouldn't want to go there either.
Myspace does have the option of making it private, but when I read the discription here it didn't say that so I accepted it.
Also, I don't mind if people come in and out of there and I rather like the idea of an absentee landlord, I can fix my own damn faucets, lol.

 

[WebSlave]

Oh, and for the record, I actually did have a forum on this site that was accessible ONLY by paid members. It went largely unused and ignored, so I just removed it.

So no, I can't see anything new being brought to the table here.

 

[Stardust]

Actually I do recall that now that you mention it. Also Hell is a paid membership although not for what is being asked here. I don't know how it is doing but it is still there.
The site is fine on its own, too much changing and worrying can drive the best of us crazy, or trying to make everyone happy.
Still am not into trolls but hey, it happens.

 

[WebSlave]

Trolls and spam are something that will always be on the net. All you can do is to try to deal with it after the fact. Case and point are the numerous spam blockers that many ISPs have taken up. Certainly in a lot of cases, that brand of cure has become worse than the original disease.

Spam can be deleted. Trolls, once identified, simply can be ignored.

 

[Wilomn]

Spam can be deleted. Trolls, once identified, simply can be ignored.

Well, some can anyway.

 

[The BoidSmith]

Well at least it was worth a try...My dream was some sort of "Herptopia" where all knew who they were. Right now anyone can pretty much create a new account and with total impunity disrupt any serious attempt of making this site a better place. Anyways there are only 364 days left...

 

[WebSlave]

Well at least it was worth a try...My dream was some sort of "Herptopia" where all knew who they were. Right now anyone can pretty much create a new account and with total impunity disrupt any serious attempt of making this site a better place. Anyways there are only 364 days left...

Yes, I know. But there is really no solution for that problem. Not unless I charged a fee at the door for anyone to post anywhere on this site. Otherwise trying to fix that problem would be akin to trying to strangle a balloon. Any forum would be fair game to disruption.

This would go even deeper since obviously I would have to disallow any email address that could be created anonymously as well. That would mean NO hotmail, yahoo, aol, and others would be allowed to register here. Obviously that would be suicidal for this site.

 

[Chameleon Company]

In the end Dan, no matter what we call it, there is a nucleus of posters in this site who want to use their talents to post with whatever God-given intelligence and reasonable self-control that they possess. That same group has the ability to agree to disagree if that is how it ends up. There are others, very well known with names to match their Driver's Licenses, whose intent is not rationale discussion or non-hostile disagreement. Whether someone is doing it as an alias, or as the jerk that they prefer to be, both possess the same ability to disrupt. If they didn't have an impact which many of us loathe, we wouldn't have the WWW or Shrillomn threads. As I believe you realize, it is not as simple as just "ignoring" them, being as it is so much easier to tear down than to build up. The miscreants such as the little rooster and other snipes do manage to make things worse. We have both had conversations with good folks who post here infrequently, if at all, citing that they do not need the silliness that follows a post which is in any way critical of the snipe mentality. It is also a fact that the majority of the achievers in this business state that this is not a place in which they care to spend any time. Their silence here is deafening.

 

[WebSlave]

It is also a fact that the majority of the achievers in this business state that this is not a place in which they care to spend any time. Their silence here is deafening.

Actually that used to bother me, but not any longer. This site is doing just fine without those "achievers". They probably have good reason to fear this place. They know they can't buy protection with their advertising money here. And they are now on a level playing field with everyone else and open to criticism that cannot be swept under the carpet with a wave of some $$.

I remember a rather big name "achiever" who contacted me a while back because someone was using one of their photographs without permission on this site. When it got resolved, he closed with the comment, "Man, someone needs to do something about these scammers...." Yeah, right, bud. Where have YOU been all these years...... That's fine to say as long as someone else is doing it, right?

I can't recall who said it or the origination of the quote, but I do recall someone higher up on the food chain being quoted to say they didn't like this site because "anyone can say anything at all there." Damned straight they can! So if you can't stand the heat, then it IS better that you stay out of the kitchen....

 

[Chameleon Company]

Rich,
I agree with all you say about trying to maintain identity standards as being unrealistic. I also would once again volunteer that if you took your five most frequent and non-confrontational posters, Dan being a prime example (Kelli, Laura, Kevin, John S., Mike G., Lucille, and others equally level-headed) and asked them if they had a consensus on who should be out of here so as to restore more civility, certain other frequent butthead posters would appear on a majority of the five ballots. If my name is there, then boot me. In any case, these five would have no trouble with a majority opinion putting the crosshairs on a very short list of people whose exit would reduce the nonsense by 75% or more, to include identifying the return of these same stooges as an alias if they tried to sneak back. Give these folks the power of 30 day, 90 day, and year long bans. You appoint them all. Less drama ? Yes. Less hits ? Certainly in the short term, maybe longer. More good posts ? Absolutely. Maybe it ain't going to happen, but the site will not uplift itself spontaneously, or by accident, otherwise.

 

[WebSlave]

Jim, you were here when I made a MAJOR effort to sweep this site clean of the garbage. And you most likely saw a small portion of the flak I got because of it. There was a LOT more that went on outside the public eye. I had people telling me in no uncertain terms that they felt that they had a RIGHT to act like an asshole if they felt like it here. I had people threaten to sue me because I wouldn't allow them to act like an asshole. So you know what, yep, they can act like assholes now. And everyone is welcome to watch. Here's your rope, sir.............

Sorry, but my opinion is that the majority of the people just do not want this site to be the way I want it to be. Not my vision of a credible and professional meeting place to get something important accomplished. And quite frankly, I am just tired of fighting for it. It REALLY just is not worth my effort to worry about it, much less actively try to do anything about it. I do hope it still accomplishes something worthwhile, but I am not about to lose sleep over it if it does not. I feel that I gave it my best shot. If it just wasn't good enough, I STILL made my best shot.

I've tried every path I could think of for this site, and got nothing but headaches and aggravation over it. So now I'm on the path of least resistance. If that is not to the liking of some, I am sorry about that, but you have to do what you have to do. I am not about to allow this site to stress me into an early grave.

 

[Chameleon Company]

No dosagreement as to the effort you made. Quite frankly, I felt you spent way too much time on explanations far too often. I do not think that any change that raises the stress level to you is a good one. My opinion is that you delegated poorly, if at all. My idea may be terrible, but I see it as a way to accomplish two things:

1) Your prior goals; and

2) Use the efforts of others who share your ideals to do the work for you. No appeals, etc. Just "see you in 30 days" or more.

You've never tried this before, and yet it is a typical format for any membership organization, such as churches, clubs, etc. You have a pool of dedicated folks to pick from who have a history of experience and desire to participate here, and a track record by which you can judge their fitness. It would take you likely all of 30 seconds to come up with a list of five qualified people, and five alternates. Heck, I volunteer me and Wes (its as a pair or not at all, my volunteering anyway) to be the first recipients of a 30 day ban. One of us will go smiling, the other kicking and screaming If we come back and either of us initiates a character attack on the other, or anyone else, make it 60. All just a suggestion.

 

[DAND]

I believe you are WAY overestimating how many people would sign up for such a thing. If more than 100 people signed up for it, I would be shocked. And once the person assigned to do this gets tired of it, or fed up for one reason or another, or perhaps just gets tired of the unavoidable headaches that will arise, and tells me they are moving on, that the $67 they earned just isn't worth it, dumping it in my lap, then what?

Rich,

I have said before that I would be willing to help you out if I could. If you were to decide to attempt to implement something like what has been suggested my offer to help is still on the table. What's another headache anyway huh?

If someone is a known entity, but has little if any reputation at risk to begin with, what have they to lose by making an ass of themselves here ? Put another way, you can't lose what you never had.

Obviously even if one has a reputation they can still make an ass out of themselves and still not loose anything.

The primary business of the site might be in the number of hits. Stupidity generates more hits than intelligence, just as more folks will watch Jerry Springer than NOVA. That's an unfortunate reality for some of us.

I myself would rather associate with a handful of intelligent people then the masses of past/present and future Springer guests.

 

[KelliH]

If someone is a known entity, but has little if any reputation at risk to begin with, what have they to lose by making an ass of themselves here ? Put another way, you can't lose what you never had.

Jim made a most excellent point. Those that have no true business reputation in herpetoculture have nothing to lose. They have no certification (for lack of a better word!).

Making an ass of oneself is totally ok as long as you own your words and are not ashamed.

I still think an elite forum(s) is definitely not a good idea. I understand the concept Alvaro, and it is a good one. I just think a better idea is to set ground rules for Fauna and stick by them, equally. But I'm not sure if that can be accomplished at this late date.

Oh well, Happy 2007!