Dan Felice - Good Guy

[Chris Kennard]

John...

" I just have failed to find a second individual anywhere in this thread with first hand direct knowledge of this supposed situation with Mr. Felice".

Perhaps you missed the post submitted by my brother Joe Kennard who was one of the recipients of one of those crosses. It was represented as a cross just like the one given to me by Dan. Does Joe's testimony not count for some reason? Battaboom...page six of this thread.

"Please don't interpret this question as an attack or an invitation to attack, I just find it odd"

Not at all. I appreciate the civility. I find it odd that no one is coming forward as well. Jeff Nichols disappeared when asked where his offspring went. Dan won't say a word about them. Lee has gotten a "side" of the story privately from Dan and it'll be interesting to see if he will share that story. I see no reason not to. Everyone is hush-hush about the whereabouts of those offspring and about who Dan supposedly "hatched" those eggs for. Why do you suppose that is?

 

[Suncoast Herpetological]

I did miss that post...sorry. However your brother's comments only support the statement by you that the crosses exist. That particular point does not seem to be of particular concern to any of the dry aficionados who have posted (yourself included).

The real question I was asking, and I apologize for not being clear in my first post, is that all allusions and accusations of Mr. Felice misrepresenting the animals as pure have been made by you and you alone with no supporting direct evidence or corroboration from anyone else?

That was the point I found somewhat odd after the exposure this thread has gotten in it's two month plus existance.

 

[Chris Kennard]

John...

"The real question I was asking, and I apologize for not being clear in my first post, is that all allusions and accusations of Mr. Felice misrepresenting the animals as pure have been made by you and you alone with no supporting direct evidence or corroboration from anyone else"?

Correct. Why would anyone come forward and admit that they have those offspring knowing that they are crosses? No one wants us to know where they are. What does that tell you? Do you know where they are? Do you know who Dan supposedly "hatched" those eggs for? Just for the record, I don't refer to anything I've stated as "allusions" or "accusations". They are truths, plain and simple. Is it your contention that my brothers submission to this thread is not "supporting direct evidence or corroboration from anyone else"? I beg to differ! Dan took money from Joe and told him he was buying a cross between his Eastern and his Uni. That was an honest and accurate representation. He had no choice. We knew what they were!

 

[Chris Kennard]

John...

"That particular point does not seem to be of particular concern to any of the dry aficionados who have posted (yourself included)".

The "Dry" "aficionados" would sooner cut off their testes before admitting that I'm right and one of their boys is wrong. They've proven that before. God forbid the "Core" be made to look anything less than infallible. Please don't mistake me for someone who needs endorsement or support or even acceptance from the "aficionados" here or anywhere else. As I've said before, this is not a popularity contest and I am not wrong here. So many times the truth is unpopular. But that's a good thing. It weeds out the scoundrels.

 

[Chris Kennard]

One last thing John...

You and an-al made some good points but the two of you are so full of crap your eyes must be brown. Santimonious ego-inflated windbags also comes to mind when thinking of you two.


Let's do a little recap of some of Wes' quotes, shall we? And then compare them to the most "slanderous" thing I've said, and you can tell me if those statements were "called for" and necessary and if how he says things is as important as what he says...

"Is this a pissing match between an-al and kennard vs. anyone..."

" In the end you were right with albury and it sure seems you are with felice but, why are you such arrogant antagonistic jerks all the time"?

" You know the part where I ask you why you have to be such arrogant atagonistic jerks".

"an-al...you and your pal kennard are so arrogantly antagonistic...ASSume..."

I get it now! If I talk like that, I'll be accepted here as a mature adult and have more credibility, lol. Let's continue, shall we...

"You've made some good points and also made an ass out of yourselves more than once".

"If you leave me alone I'll pretty much leave you alone".

LOL! That's precious! Definately my favorite. No one ever instigates Wes into entertaining any thread including this one. He shows up and spouts off on his own merit unprovoked.

" And you really should try not to be so arrogant or antagonistic. You're not that good".

More instigating. Hmmm.

"maybe you'll measure up someday..."

Called for? Relevant to this thread...how?

"After all I have managed to get myself booted here".

Ya' don't say. Really? Wonder why?

"You and an-al made some good points but the two of you are so full of crap your eyes must be brown. Santimonious ego-inflated windbags also comes to mind when thinking of you two".

Interesting! I don't remember talking that way to anyone here. Is that how I should "say things" John? Will that help me prove my "point"?

 

[Chris Kennard]

Sorry John...

That quote was from Lee and that post was directed at Lee, not you. My apologies.

Why is it that when an important question comes up, people disappear? Lee, you said...

" I've heard your version, I've heard Dan's version,..."

WHAT IS DAN'S VERSION???

Who did he say has the babies now?

Who did he say he "hatched" the eggs for?

Why would you hold back important information like that"

 

[Lee McMurtry]

Dan's Version

Dan's version is his to tell.

My interpretation of Dan's version would be more third-hand "evidence" and unlikely to make any difference in the minds of those who have managed to put up with this thread thus far. I will say that his version explains why Chris perceives things as he does (I am NOT saying its the truth, because I can't possibly know that. His story isn't any more or less implausible than Chris'.) He didn't say who gave him the eggs or where the hatchlings went, and I didn't ask. I don't think its any of my business, and I do know that I would prefer than people I buy from not discuss our transactions with a third party, other than in very general terms (and I recognize the irony that this board is, in fact, a third party with which to discuss transactions!).
Chris, I've never tried to dissuade you from your viewpoint. I have no evidence to add to or subtract from your case against Dan. As to how you and Rob conduct yourselves on this board, this is hardly my opinion alone - moderators have warned you nine times and Rob FIFTY-FOUR times about inappropriate behavior. Other than that its free advice and you can take it for what its worth.
This really is my last post on the subject. I have nothing to add, and no more patience for those who would drag it out further. If anyone out there other than Chris has FIRST HAND knowledge of what went on, start a new thread with it.

-Lee McMurtry

 

[Anaconda Al]

Another on bites the dust!

Good Bye Lee!

You've checked out on your own free will.

So did Dan Felice!
So did Chris Raden!
So did Jeff Nichols!

Is it just coincidental that you all ran away rather than ANSWER the simple questions that would prove that Felice has nothing to hide?

By the way Felice, I guess it's still obvious that Steve Fuller is still pissed at you for ripping him off?

God forbid you say something YOURSELF, that might make you look like you aren't hiding something!

 

[Anaconda Al]

Lee McMurtry

You actually had the audacity to say this:




"As I've said before, if he did it, and misrepresented the offspring, that's wrong; but it seems to me that there are a million other people in this hobby/business perpetrating far sleazier crimes against reptiles and customers that you could crusade against if you were really outraged about the behavior and not the man."


Sure "it seems to" YOU that what Felice did to Steve Fuller was something so insignificant that it doesn't warrent mention on the BOI! Nice guy!

What do you suppose Steve Fuller "seems to" think about what Felice did to him?

Insignificant you say?

 

[Chris Kennard]

Lee...

That's just the predictable cop-out I expected! You are concealing a relevant piece of the puzzle here.

"I have nothing to add, and no more patience for those who would drag it out further".

You mean you have nothing that you "want" to add. If you and all the others that Dan has privately e-mailed with his BS fish stories would step up to bat like honest people would, this thread would be much shorter in all likelyhood. So long Lee. Sorry you've joined the ranks of the suspicious. I guess at this point I shouldn't be suprised. That hush-hush disease seems to be contagious.

 

[Anaconda Al]

"Morals of convenience" Wes?

You said the following to Chris Kennard:

"The plain and simple is that if felice sold them as PURE anything and they start throwing out mutts your contentions will be proven"

Are we all supposed to suddenly forget that YOU have expressed, many times on this thread, your unequivocal opinion that Kennard's "contentions" HAVE ALREADY BEEN "proven"?

Or should we help you pretent that you didn't need a wait and see attitude before you barreled ahead to start your very own ridiculous thread about what bad guys Kennard and myself are, simply because we knew what Felice had done?

How do you explain this glaring contradiction Wes? "Morals of convenience"?

Felice's guilt here is not based on some future event. What's done is done. He already ripped Steve Fuller off. Are you now going to attempt to throw some confusion into the mix because you are so miffed that Kennard and I have successfully turned McMurtry's "Good Guy" thread (LOL) into a "Bad Guy" thread, where it belongs? If you are having trouble keeping track of what side of the fence you are on Wes (LOL), go back and read what YOU have said earlier regarding how Felice is OBVIOUSLY guilty.

 

[Anaconda Al]

Lee McMurtry

You say to Chris kennard:



"Until then, its your word against his, and people can interpret his silence as they wish."


And what exactly is Felice's "word" Lee? We haven't heard anything from Felice on this thread regarding the specifics. Why in the world would he be "silent" about the specifics if he had nothing to hide. In the real world innocent people have lots to say to those who are falsely accusing them (LOL) of something they didn't do. In the real world those who speak up to defend someone who they think is being falsely accused can't wait to engage in discussion about the specific allegations, because it's so easy to make idiots of the accusers when you KNOW that the truth is on YOUR side.

You, Lee, don't seem to have ANYTHING to say that would point to Felice's innocence here. Instead you are making ludicrous comments that trivialize what Felice is accused of, IF it were true (LOL).

It's obvious that you really don't want to know the truth Lee. Why do you think Felice hasn't been able to get Steve Fuller and Bobby Lee to come on here and say great things about him like you have. Here's a clue Lee: THEY ARE FELICE'S VICTIMS!

 

[Anaconda Al]

John Schmidt

You ask:



"My question, after digesting this entire discourse is, are their any supporting statements or direct eveidence anywhere here that support the allegations made by Mr. Kennard?"

How's this for a "statement" John: Steve Fuller refused to respond to Felice's repeated attempts to strike up a conversation on KS recently.

Here's another: Steve Fuller hasn't shown up here to defend Felice.

Here's another: Bobby Lee hasn't shown up here to defend Felice.

Here's another: Jeff Nichols is no longer posting to this thread after it became clear that he didn't really want to find out what exactly Steve Fuller and Bobby Lee had sold to him.

There's quite a few "statements' that have been made here that defenders of Felice choose to ignore.

You see John, when guilty guys like Felice clam-up in an effort to hide the truth, the smart guy has to read between the lines in order to interpret the truth correctly.

Now John, if you want to get to the bottom of this 'mystery" (LOL) why don't you ask Felice WHY he can't get Steve Fuller to give his side of the story?

Why don't you post some questions for Jeff Nichols to answer here? Did you find his sudden disappearance at least a little questionable John?

 

[Anaconda Al]

John Schmitt

Your quote again:



"My question, after digesting this entire discourse is, are their any supporting statements or direct eveidence anywhere here that support the allegations made by Mr. Kennard?"


What's a good number for you John? 1,000? 1,000,000? Or would 10,000,000 people besides Kennard also have had to know about Felice's dirty little secret before you decided it was time to ask an intelligent question about whether or not Felice ripped Steve Fuller off? In general, John, scammers don't tell too many people their dirty little secrets. Why would you think that there should be others that knew what Kennard knew?

You are doing the same old, tired routine that Felice and his band of defenders have done before you: AVOID the facts and attack Kennard's credibility. Are you claiming that Felice didn't express concern to Kennard that he hopes "Steve" wouldn't find out about the crosses?

When are you going to learn the lesson that Felice is and still looks guilty as hell here because you guys keep repeating the same mistake. None of you, especially Felice, have shown any interest in discussing the facts, and that in itself makes Felice look like a scoundrel. When you add the undisputed facts that Kennard and I have stated, Felice doesn't have a chance!

 

[Chris Kennard]

Lee...

"I will say that his version explains why Chris perceives things as he does (I am NOT saying its the truth, because I can't possibly know that. His story isn't any more or less implausible than Chris'.)"...

Lee, I have been taxing my brain trying to figure out exactly what it is that you are trying to say or trying not to say here. First of all, you are saying here that my story is implausible (not worthy of belief). Can you find where I've shown evidence of being deceptive? What really bothers me is your use of the word "perceives" in your statement. This would imply that there was manipulation, by Dan, with regard to what I saw and heard in an effort to make me think I was witnessing something that I was not as Dan has already insinuated when he said, and I quote, ""yeah stupid, there was a fib told......to you about 2 years ago precisely for
the reason you constantly demonstrate here.....YOUR A BIG MOUTH"!!!
Page four of this thread.

Hmmm. Fib=Lie. Thus, Dan is a proven liar. How do you feel about that Lee?

Is that the "version" you heard, lol? I can see why you would be too embarrassed to share with us that you would even entertain such a story. Perhaps he explained to you why he supposedly "manipulated" the truth in 02 to make me think he was doing something bad while hiding the "good" thing he was doing. That's some covert operation he's got going there, lol. I'm suprised he didn't say something like "if I tell ya', I'll have to kill ya'.
Actually, that story would explain why everyone is so hush-hush. If Dan is telling you all that he lied to me back then for some odd reason, then you all would have to admit he lies and admit that the guy you all loath (me) is right. God forbid.

 

[Anaconda Al]

Lee

"I will say that his version explains why Chris perceives things as he does (I am NOT saying its the truth, because I can't possibly know that. His story isn't any more or less implausible than Chris'.)"...


LOL Lee!

According to you, there's no way possible for anyone to figure out if Felice is a scoundrel? How convenient that would be for Felice IF his friend Lee McMurtry were right here! "Implausable" is a strange way to put it Lee. After all Wes Pollock was able to read this thread like I'm sure everyone else has, including you, and figured out very easily that Felice is guilty as charged. You obviously don't want to jeapordize your GREAT relationship with Felice so you wouldn't want to say anything that might make him look bad. I guess that's why we aren't going to hear anymore from you Lee?

Fortunately, this thread doesn't need guys like you Jeff Nichols to state the obvious here. Felice's disappearing act tells it all! Nice strategy Dannio!

 

[Wilomn]

It's nice to see that you lend my opinion such credence an-al/elenor/rob. However, I never did say that I was sure felice cross bred his snakes. I have stated that I thought he did and perhaps that I was pretty sure he did and maybe even that it sure looks like he did but, nowhere in there did I ever state conclusively that I KNEW he did. He may have he may not have. If anyone who has his babies breeds them together that should let you know if he did or not.

kennard, I am not saying I don't believe what you are saying here. I have a feeling you're right but I don't know that for sure. I will clue you two into something here. It's not a contest to see who's right or wrong. Your coming on here time and time again is not helping your case. Save it an-al/elenor/rob, I don't want to hear why I'm wrong and you're right YET again. Been there, done that. You an-al/elenor/rob I would not believe if it was only you as you have proven yourself as unable to be trusted. kennard has a slight bit of credibility even now but the two of you are SO DAMN OLD with this thing that I haven't even read it in the last two days.

Please, if you're going to quote me use the entire line and quit taking things out of context to suit your needs. I'm sort of tired of this coming back to explain what I REALLY said game you keep playing.

Oh, and an-al/elenor/rob thanks for stopping the filthy emails, they were getting tiresome as well. Did you and your life partner work things out?

If you really want to prove that felice did this heinous deed find some of the offspring and breed them.

Wes Pollock

 

[Anaconda Al]

Wes

"However, I never did say that I was sure felice cross bred his snakes. I have stated that I thought he did and perhaps that I was pretty sure he did and maybe even that it sure looks like he did but, nowhere in there did I ever state conclusively that I KNEW he did." He may have he may not have. "


Wow Wes, you sure fooled me into thinking that you had no doubt that Felice was cross-breeding his snakes. Who in their right mind would start their own "bad guy" thread on Chris Kennard BASED SOLELY ON HIS KNOWING THAT FELICE CROSSED HIS INDIGO and then afterward claim that "nowhere in there did I ever state conclusively that I KNEW he did." In order to regard Kennard as guilty, isn't it IMPLIED that you have to, first, be CONVINCED of Felice's guilt?


"If anyone who has his babies breeds them together that should let you know if he did or not."

We already KNOW that "he did" Wes! The damage is done. Why don't you make an appeal here for Steve Fuller to come on and say what he thinks about Felice now? Or would that be too constructive for you?

"kennard, I am not saying I don't believe what you are saying here. I have a feeling you're right but I don't know that for sure. I will clue you two into something here."

Don't worry Wes, we know what you believe. All of your back-peddaling here is comical. You were sure enough to try and bash Kennard, but you are suddenly skeptical now that your little Thready Poo has been closed.


"Oh, and an-al/elenor/rob thanks for stopping the filthy emails, they were getting tiresome as well. Did you and your life partner work things out?"

Gee Wes, I wonder if the moderator will be clever enough to catch your subtle insult here? At least you've realized that your decision to send me a private email wasn't such a good idea for you.

"If you really want to prove that felice did this heinous deed find some of the offspring and breed them"

Sorry MR INDECISION, but we've already proved it. Felice ripping Steve Fuller WAS something that happened IN THE PAST! Felice ripping off Jeff Nichols WAS something that happened IN THE PAST! And, most important, it is now IN THE PAST that you accused Kennard as being guilty like Felice just for knowing about Felice's dirty little secret.

 

[Anaconda Al]

Wes

"He may have he may not have. "

So what do you think the chances are that Felice misrepresented his crosses Wes?

50/50? 75/25?

OJ "may have, may not have" killed two people. Did you CONCLUDE that HE was guilty? Did you have "conclusive" evidence? You know, "absolute proof"?

Did you have or need "absolute proof" that Kennard knew about Felice's crosses before you started a thread on him? Did you CONCLUDE that he was guilty without that proof?

YOUR "morals of inconvenience" are blinding!

 

[Anaconda Al]

Wes

"I don't know of anyone who thinks felice is innocent. I know a lot of us would like him to come here and say he is or prove it. Doesn't look likely at this point. There, I've said it AGAIN. Did it sink in this time???"


These are YOUR words Wes - see page 32 if you have any doubt!

Pretty strong statement of your belief in his guilt, wouldn't you say?

It's certainly a far cry from your current position that "maybe his is, maybe he isn't".

Keep it real Wes!