Dan Felice - Good Guy

[Chris Kennard]

I am bewildered that even as I write this, Dan's name appears under the heading "users browsing this forum". I've seen him lurking several times yet no response to questions that would surely put this matter to rest. Since you are watching Dannio, let me make this even simpler than I already have. You said, and I quote...

"the adults were never here in the first place yip-yope!! i only hatched the eggs."

Fair enough Dannio. If that is true, then the offspring actually belonged to someone else. Why then did that someone else not sell the offspring? Why hasn't that person appeared here and why won't you divulge the name of the person you supposedly hatched those crosses for? Perhaps that person's vocal chords are still operational, lol. Lastly, what is a yip-yope? Is that anything like a buffon? Perhaps Anaconda is absolutely correct and the case is closed.

NEXT!

 

[Anaconda Al]

"Lastly, what is a yip-yope?"

I don't know but, given Dannio's fondness for hybrids, my guess would be that it's a CROSS between a "yip" and a "yope", whatever they may be. I see no reason why Dannio can't answer that question himself, but apparently he, like Fred Albury, he has become the 'invisible man" in regards to his very own thread.

Albert "Rob" Applebaum

 

[Chris Kennard]

Anaconda...

I think the fact that Jeff Nichols and Dan have elected to be "no-shows" with regard to answering such difficult (LOL) questions speaks volumes here. The case is obviously closed. Anyone with common sense can deduce that Dan and Jeff are hiding something. Perhaps they just need more time to concoct a new angle, who knows? The heading of this thread should read appropriately...

BUYER BEWARE, DAN FELICE...BAD GUY

Enough said.
Regards,

 

[Anaconda Al]

I agree!

It's very easy to deduce that Dan Felice and Jeff Nichols share a dirty little secret here. It would be easier to break into Fort Knox, than it would to get either one of them to explain WHY Jeff Nichols unloaded those crosses and/or WHO has them now. Both of these guys volunteered NOTHING about the transaction in question, and Jeff Nichols was as vague as possible when pressed for information. Dan couldn't seem to commit to saying that HE himself never crossed any Drymarchon at any time. The best he could do was to make a general statement that no Drymarchon were ever crossed. He seemed to have much difficulty finding and using the pronoun "I". We get the picture Dannio!

Dannio did a great job trying to explain how Chris and I are bad guys, but that did nothing to rebut the claim that he crossed Indigos. At this point I have to seriously question why Lee McMurtry posted in the first place. Why did he wait until eight weeks after the purchase, and why did he wait until one of the snakes died, and is it just coincidental that this same "volcano" had just "erupted" on KS? Knowing how Dannio likes to get other people so say things for him, was Lee's post a pre-emptive strike on Dannio's behalf?

After just eight weeks, one out of four of the snakes that Dannio sold Lee was dead. In other words, only 75% had survived (that's a "C" in my book), and at the time that Lee started this thread, Dannio had not replaced the snake. Why didn't you wait to post until you received the replacement snake Lee? Was Dannio's "communication, packaging, and delivery" that impressive to overshadow the fact that one of your snakes was dead after only eight weeks?

There's way to much mystery shrouding Dan Felice and too little participation on his part to shed some light on the matter for me to think that he isn't hiding some dirty little secret. Dan Felice - Bad Guy!

Albert "Rob" Applebaum

 

[Chris Kennard]

Very last question...

Since Dannio refuses to speak up (bad move D), I would like to ask one last question to Gila, Lee, Thomas and Jeff. How were your animals sent to you by the silent one? Was it by any chance USPS?

 

[Chris Kennard]

Clarification...

On a lighter note, I thought I would clarify one issue in my own defense. Dan stated, and again I quote, lol...

" these 2 guys have now posted OVER 200 times straight negatively here in fauna on TWO guys ONLY. myself and fred albury."

Not so. I'm suprised that Dannio forgot to mention the "negative" post on Rick Krumrine which Dan couldn't wait to "alert" me to in the hope that I would "go get him". I would not have known that thread existed had it not been for Dan. Dan was often my "alerter" and "cheerleader". Also Dan didn't do enough research to know that I did post a well deserved "positive" post in the thread regarding Terry Parks, who will always get a thumbs up from me and probably anyone who has ever dealt with him at any capacity. Sorry to rain on your parade Dan. Did I mention that those "other" posts were made before you posted your ONE post here?

These are not my opinions. They are fact.

 

[Chris Kennard]

While frolicking through the photo gallery at KS, I happened upon a photo of a supposed Texas Indigo by Steve Fuller. To recap, Steve is one of the unsuspecting recipients of Dan Felice's 02 Eastern Indigo/Unicolor Cribos which Dan sold as Texas Indigos. The date of the photo was labeled 7/20/2003. The photo is of a YEAR OLD Texas Indigo. The photo depicts what appears to be an obvious cross between the snakes in question. I have never seen a Texan with the head color of a Uni. I defy anyone to look at that photo and tell me they have seen Texans that look like that and share the head color of what is obviously indicative of a Unicolor Cribo, NOT A TEXAS INDIGO. The photo can be found by simply going to KS photo gallery, half way down the page in the search engine fill in the word Indigo, and go to the pic of the Texas Indigo by Steve Fuller. Or...
http://gallery.pethobbyist.com/index.pl?photo=87642
Subsequently, I have recieved five anonymous threatening cards in the mail since this thread came about. Most, if not all, were sent by Rearfang (Frank). Frank is Dan's buddy. The connection is obvious. The first two were sent from S.Florida, where Frank happens to live. The third from N.Carolina. The forurth and fifth from Memphis and Newark, N.J. By his own admission in a post on KS, Frank was in Memphis the weekend the card was sent. Coincedence, lol? You do the math.
Enough said. If anyone can look at that pic and say that it represents a Texas animal, then the Texan you are compairing the photo to was probably created by Dan.

 

[Chris Kennard]

p.s.

I would like to state for the record that I emphatically aver that that photo is in fact a pic of one of the crosses Dan produced by breeding an Eastern Indigo with his "calico" Unicolor Cribo. I saw the offspring, including that one. There is NO DOUBT in my mind that the snake in the photo is none other than one of the crosses produced by Dan. Also, if anyone claims that the snake in the photo is representative of what a Texas Indigo resembles, by all means, please posts pics of TRUE, VERIFIABLE Texans that are comparable.
Also, I forgot to mention that the death threats, which all came from different post offices, all donned the exact same postage stamp. Du-uh!

 

[Spilotes]

That pic certainly looks like the cross you describe. Ethics aside, its pretty interesting. I don't think anything should be sold misrepresented, I wonder why they weren't just sold "as is" with a description of where they came from and what they were?

As long as its out in the open, I don't see why its such a big deal. When people put a lot of pressure on mythical "purity" they surpress these sorts of harmless experiments.

Joe Monahan

 

[gila7150]

Chris, I'm just curious if you've ever seen an erebennus from the southern part of their range? I really don't think you realize how variable they can be. I've seen them as dark as couperi and almost as light as melanurus. I've seen them salmon colored on their venter and I've seen them almost white underneath. Have you seen erebennus from Mexico?
The photo in your link does not show couperi influence at all.

This is from the HERPETOLOGICAL JOURNAL, Vol. 11, pp. 157-165 (2001):
In Central America, Smith (1941) noted the existence
of hybrid zones between melanurus on one hand and
the taxa erebennus, orizabensis and rubidus on the
other. Additionally, juveniles and some adults of
erebennus, rubidus and unicolor display oblique dark
bars on the sides of the neck, which appear to be ho-mologous
with the marks seen in D. melanurus (no
orizabensis were examined). Although the sister taxon
to Drymarchon is unresolved, these dark marks appear
to be unique to these taxa, and can therefore be regarded
as a synapomorphy for these populations.

You asked for someone to show you a "verifiable" erebennus photo that is similar in appearance. I'm not sure how I can prove any erebennus photo to be verifiable in your eyes but here's a link to a very similar erebennus from a German Drymarchon website.
http://rubidus.bei.t-online.de/drym...%20erebenus.htm

I don't think I'm going to change your mind on this and that's ok ....but I really think you're wrong on this one.

 

[gila7150]

sorry, that link isn't working...try this one:
http://biology.bangor.ac.uk/~bss166/Taxa/Drymar.htm
Scroll down and click on the second link under Resources.
Then click on the word erebennus.

 

[Chris Kennard]

Gila...

Of course you think I'm "wrong on this one". Why wouldn't you? You're a friend of Dan's who has made it publically obvious that you despise me as per this post composed by near the beginning of this thread...

"The person you are referring to is the same troll that has attacked almost every person who frequents that forum. He is banned by Kingsnake on a weekly basis and comes back under a different name each time.
I know the person that the troll accused Dan of selling hybrids to. She owns Texas Indigos from other breeders and would know if she was sold a couperi/unicolor hybrid (which would probably not even resemble erebennus). I'd chalk that accusation up as BS
like everything else that comes out of that troll's mouth".

Now, given that you believe that everything that comes out of this troll's (my) mouth is BS, why would you entertain my post other than to attempt to lend credence to Dan's fish stories in an effort to discredit me? Never mind, I just answered my own question, lol.


"Chris, I'm just curious if you've ever seen an erebennus from the southern part of their range? I really don't think you realize how variable they can be. I've seen them as dark as couperi and almost as light as melanurus".

We're not talking about "dark" or "light" or how "variable" they "can" be. Those are crosses...period.

"I've seen them salmon colored on their venter and I've seen them almost white underneath".

Funny, I didn't see "salmon" or "white" in the photo of Dan's cross.

"Have you seen erebennus from Mexico?
The photo in your link does not show couperi influence at all".

I beg to differ.

"This is from the HERPETOLOGICAL JOURNAL, Vol. 11, pp. 157-165 (2001):
In Central America, Smith (1941) noted the existence
of hybrid zones between melanurus on one hand and
the taxa erebennus, orizabensis and rubidus on the
other. Additionally, juveniles and some adults of
erebennus, rubidus and unicolor display oblique dark
bars on the sides of the neck, which appear to be ho-mologous
with the marks seen in D. melanurus (no
orizabensis were examined). Although the sister taxon
to Drymarchon is unresolved, these dark marks appear
to be unique to these taxa, and can therefore be regarded
as a synapomorphy for these populations".

Post all the journals you want. It won't change the fact that the snake in the photo is a cross. Does the journal say that crossing an Eastern Indigo with a Unicolor Cribo cannot produce anything that resembles the snake in the photo? Of course not. But now the writer of your fancy journal can use the photo as a reference for what a true cross looks like. How cool is that?

"You asked for someone to show you a "verifiable" erebennus photo that is similar in appearance. I'm not sure how I can prove any erebennus photo to be verifiable in your eyes but here's a link to a very similar erebennus from a German Drymarchon website".

I couldn't access the pic, not that it matters. You just don't get it Gila. Nothing you post here will magically turn Dan's crosses into pure Texas animals.

"I don't think I'm going to change your mind on this and that's ok ....but I really think you're wrong on this one".

You can't change my mind because I know for a fact that they are crosses and have known it since the thread started and it is YOU who are "wrong on this one" (the difference being that I don't "think" so, I know so). I posted the pic because I know it's a cross and RECOGNIZED IT IMMEDIATELY! So answer just two questions Chris, although I doubt you'll answer directly or honestly.
After viewing this whole thread and the photo of Dan's offspring that I submitted here, is it your contention that after weighing the pros and cons of this thread, that you would buy any of those 02 offspring that Dan produced and sold as Texans and would you represent them as Texas Indigos with regard to future breeding and sale of further offspring from this lineage??? Perhaps you should re-read this thread and the testimony of my brother as well before answering the questions.

I know how much you want me to be wrong Chris because of your dislike for me, but I'm not wrong...you are. So sorry.

 

[gila7150]

After viewing this whole thread and the photo of Dan's offspring that I submitted here, is it your contention that after weighing the pros and cons of this thread, that you would buy any of those 02 offspring that Dan produced and sold as Texans and would you represent them as Texas Indigos with regard to future breeding and sale of further offspring from this lineage??? Perhaps you should re-read this thread and the testimony of my brother as well before answering the questions.

Would I buy them? Probably not because I prefer darker colored erebennus w/ salmon coloration underneath. I wouldn't have any concern of them being hybrids though, they're just kinda ugly IMO. That's like asking you if you'd buy an ugly boa....you probably wouldn't just because there are better looking ones available. I wouldn't have any trouble representing those as erebennus though because that's exactly what they are.

I couldn't access the pic, not that it matters. You just don't get it Gila. Nothing you post here will magically turn Dan's crosses into pure Texas animals.

I thought you asked for a photo...sorry to distract you from your ranting with facts. Here's the photo you can't seem to access:

Anyway, I'll let you get back to your witchhunt Chris. I just thought I'd share some info in case anyone reading this was as unfamiliar with erebennus as you seem to be. Have fun.

 

[Chris Kennard]

Gila...

"Would I buy them? Probably not because I prefer darker colored erebennus w/ salmon coloration underneath".

Probably not, lol? Because...blah, blah, blah...now you're just blowing smoke. You're too predictable.

" I wouldn't have any concern of them being hybrids though, they're just kinda ugly IMO. That's like asking you if you'd buy an ugly boa....you probably wouldn't just because there are better looking ones available".

Huh-whu? Let's stay focused, shall we? I didn't ask if you would buy them because of appearance, but with regard to the info submitted in this thread. Your drivel is suffocating.

"I wouldn't have any trouble representing those as erebennus though because that's exactly what they are".

Wrong. That's exactly what they are NOT, and you have nothing to support your little campaign to defend a creep who has a habit of getting others to speak in his defense while he clams up. Why does he remain silent? Glad you asked. Because he knows that anything he might add to this thread will be self incriminating. But by all means, please continue to speak on his behalf. But I digress. The fact that you are so wrecklessly willing to promote those offspring as pure speaks volumes about you character (or lack thereof) and business ethics. The fact that you "wouldn't have any trouble representing those as Erebennus" shows your lack of concern for the proper representation of snakes within the herp community, but more importantly, your lack of concern with regard to the purity of snakes in captive populations. Way to go pal. There's no turnin' back now, lol.

"I thought you asked for a photo...sorry to distract you from your ranting with facts. Here's the photo you can't seem to access:"

Thank you for finally admitting that my submissions are "fact"! That means alot to me. Thanks for the photo, which is totally irrelevant. Did you investigate the origination of that snake or the parents? Don't bother. It doesn't matter, lol.

"Anyway, I'll let you get back to your witchhunt Chris. I just thought I'd share some info in case anyone reading this was as unfamiliar with erebennus as you seem to be. Have fun".

Hmmm, lol. Almost Dan's exact words on KS, LOL. Perhaps he's dictating what you are submitting here. He seems to love the word "witchhunt". But where is the hunt??? I would liken your campaign to prove me wrong to a "witchhunt". Good luck!

 

[gila7150]

Did you investigate the origination of that snake or the parents?

No, I didn't figure that this conspiracy had reached Germany....but since this has gone international, it's a good thing we have you assigned to the case.
...Go get him tiger!

 

[Chris Kennard]

Gila...

LOL! Yeah, that's the only thing out of my last post that I would have attacked if I were in your shoes. Enough said. NEXT!

 

[Chris Kennard]

"Where is Jeff Nichols when Felice needs him? Since Nichols says he has pictures of the snakes that Felice sold him, why wouldn't he post them so that we can compare those snakes to the snake in Steve Fuller's picture"?

Heck with the pictures. I'd like to know why Jeff got rid of those "Texas" Indigos that his wife raved about upon their arrival as illustrated on her post on KS and where are they now? And perhaps Dannio can shed some light as to where the rest went. Perhaps the recipients of those offspring could shed some light on how Dan explained my presence on this matter since Dan himself will not.

 

[Chris Kennard]

Gila...

" I wouldn't have any trouble representing those as erebennus though because that's exactly what they are".

I would like to lay down the sword, so to speak, and just ask that you answer one simple question.

How do you know that "that's exactly what they are"? In the interest of the herp community, I would hope that your statement wasn't based on the notion..."because Dan told me so". So...

HOW DO YOU KNOW???

 

[gila7150]

One more question you forgot....

Why does Anaconda Al (who's real name is Rob) get banned by Webslave and then come back on the BOI posting under another alias rather than paying the fine that was imposed on him?

I'll answer your question when you pay Webslave what you owe him

 

[gila7150]

Rob, like I said before....you lose credibility when you pose as a woman to bypass Webslave's $10 fine.

As far as Dan and I being friends....I've never met him so I don't know if I'd consider us friends. I've talked about indigos and Drymarchon husbandry with him on an internet forum and a couple emails. I purchased a unicolor cribo from him and I purchased a YT cribo from someone else that was in Dan's care. Dan was honest and shipped me healthy, quality animals in both transactions. He's always been helpful and friendly on the forums.
In other words, I don't have any reason not to trust him except for allegations from you and Chris. Neither of you have supplied any proof of these allegations and that picture just doesn't look like a couperi / unicolor cross to me by any stretch of the imagination.
If you were able to prove that Dan misrepresented hybrids I would have a different opinion of him but you haven't. I've seen Chris go after very reputable people in the hobby before without proof (and I'm not referring to Fred Albury). If I have a negative opinion about Chris it's because of the way he has trolled the KS indigo and pit forums for over a year using fake aliases and attacking anyone who doesn't agree with him....even going so far as to attack individuals for their efforts at indigo habitat conservation. It just gets old after a while guys.