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Dan Scolaro bad guy.

Cat:

I am not sure you kept up with the thread, but at the time I made the bone cell wording, I did not recall the report from my memory that the term to describe the cells was inclusive cells so called them bone cells.

I do recall researching IBD on the internet months ago and read about it in mammals that had bone/spine disorders or issues with bones and these inclusive bodies showed when the animals were examined. Something else tells me I learned they were related to bones, so I called them bone cells by mistake.

I am not sure how anyone does routine testing on their breeding stock as someone emailed me tonight who is more so familiar with the breeder's operations and made the statment that the breeder checks his stuff for IBD and other potential disorders and obtains a health certificate for them which I know is true about them at least. I understand they have a giant operation so they perhaps do test them. If it means they knock one off for monthly, every quarter, annually, or whatever, then perhaps they do that.

But to be really honest with you, that snake was a fiesty fat biter when I packed it. There is no way on this planet it had any disease or disorder when I bagged it as it ate just a few days before and had a large solid poop in its container as did the other. Had it been sick or questionable, I would have telephoned the buyer and informed that something was wrong. Plain and simple. If anyone thinks I shipped that snake bloated and sick and planned to pay the fellow the next day, 150 dollars, then they need to get some fresh air and wake up. It's utter madness to imagine such a thing.

For all I know, the snake examined was not even my snake. I could care less about issue as the buyer did not inform the examiner the snake might of been strangled by another snake. I spoke with a vet tonight and he said if a snake is injured by trauma and suffers long enough, that inclusive cells would be present in an exam. Maybe he was wrong, maybe he was right, but I know I did not crap down a load of those cells into that snake and ship it that way.

Dan



Dan, would you care to point out just where in the report it mentions "bone cells" being present? I must be missing it.

And explain to us all, who apparently are less educated, how exactly one does conclusive IBD "screening" on their breeding stock, on a regular basis? I'm really curious to hear that information, as it must be some new, innovative procedure the rest of us have yet to learn of.
 
And re-reading the entire report yet again, I still don't see "bone cells" mentioned in any way, shape, or form.
 
The partial liver biopsy was an option when I had a problem w/ the IJ I mentioned earlier, but I opted for euthanasia and full necropsy and analysis for conclusive results and due to the cost. I would assume "screening" would be possible and effective IF this breeder was close with a qualified vet....like backyard BBQ close. That would take care of the cost aspect.

Dan, I noticed you didn't mention having any Pythons. IBD manifests itself rather quickly with them as opposed to Boas. Boas are more likely to be carriers, which is how it got the nickname "Boa AIDS" a while back.
 
Posted while you were posting....

But honestly, I think you need to do some more reading up on what you are saying before you put these things into writing. Really.

I'm out, things to do.
 
I don't want to badger the mods, but if you're going to delete other peoples' third party anonymous quotes [that are actually relevant to the topic, and not tooting one's self righteous horn as "good customers"], you should delete Dan's:

I did a reference check on the buyer and discovered from other's that he is one of these conspiracy theory freaks who thinks everyone including the government is after him. That is hearsay, but that is what I was told from a few reliable sources who refuse to deal with him.




And then:


More bad news for Chuck.

Someone just emailed me that the reputable breeder of these snakes screens his collection for IBD and there has never been any cases of IBD. He further added the vet certificate is important to check.





Dan: use the font alteration buttons when you post. Bold quotes, or actually use the 'quote' button. Your posts read like a blind man's painting. And then a couple pages ago you address Dan Garcia [I think] as "Dan", and then sign the post as "Dan", because apparently you think each post is an email. Stop doing that -- it's confusing, and a 57 page thread doesn't need more confusion. Your name appears in the side of the post in whole. We don't need to read your name twice. Stop putting other people's posts in the end of your posts without any citation or reference. It's confusing.



Oh and Dan, stop lying:

I don't recall anyone mentioning MBD but I never read much of anyone's comments anyway so if I missed it, then take away a cookie and call me another name and blame my ignorance on other folks email on the nasty folks who call names so I don't read much of some comments and such.

You don't read other people's comments? Funny, because I saw your name as reading the thread earlier today, and it appeared there for the better part of the afternoon. The particular time frame I saw your name appear, and checked back a half hour later, you hadn't posted a reply yet either. Now, certainly you were reading what all the beautiful people had to say in this magnificent thread that's made you famous now?


Stop making references to Chuck digging a grave. It's not funny, clever, unique, witty, or effective. It just makes people depressed you sink to talking so much smack to someone who's so much lower than you according to you, especially since you have children. I guess after reading you make 2000 sales and that you have kids and are a retired armed forces participant, you'd be more mature and professional. A lot of overreaction to a thread that's not in anyway a "legitimate threat", eh Dan?
 
Dan Scolaro said:
Lucille:

I just got off the phone with a vet who said those inclusion cells would show in an exam on a snake that suffered for several days afterward as a result of trauma from strangulation or body injury. Is this true according to your experts?

Dan

Dan,

I'm sorry but at this point I'm not going to accept your verbal account of such a conversation. Have the vet post his credentials and opinion here, or provide cites to literature that will confirm such an opinion.
 
Dan,
I have read everything you posted since I went to bed last night and low and behold still no documented evidence to prove your case. Just more text of you trying to BS us.
Please refrain from posting till you have solid evidence not just stuff you thought up to type. If you have vet statements and pictures that can proof are the said snake please I would love to see them and so would everyone else. Till then just stop I beg of you....
 
OK. I've got to get in here. Haven't read any of this since Chuck posted my confidential information to him. It will take me a while to read everything so I can speak to the issues accurately. Have an appointment now. But will return later today.
John Crickmer
In the mean time, you are welcome to learn something about me at my photobucket site. Look to the left for photos and content under the jscrick sub-albums.
http://s228.photobucket.com/albums/ee3/jscrick
 
jscrick said:
OK. I've got to get in here. Haven't read any of this since Chuck posted my confidential information to him. It will take me a while to read everything so I can speak to the issues accurately. Have an appointment now. But will return later today.
John Crickmer
In the mean time, you are welcome to learn something about me at my photobucket site. Look to the left for photos and content under the jscrick sub-albums.
http://s228.photobucket.com/albums/ee3/jscrick

Don't fault Chuck, In a matter as serious as this, you should have posted it yourself. If you had sent it to me, I would have. I would like to hear your motives for sending it "undercover". A whole lot of peoples snakes could be at risk.
 
Dan Scolaro said:
Craig: Shipped ill snakes? Not me. That snake was healthy when shipped and have shipped nearly 2000 orders without any legitimate complants. This issue is not legit because the snake was healthy when shipped and I made good on it anyway.

Dan
.


Can you prove with vet documentationt that what you are saying is absolutely true?

Who was the breeder.

You need to be answering the questions, and instead youre still blowing your same old smokescreen. That snake was not "Strangled" How dumb do you think this board is!????
 
Dan Scolaro said:
Dan:

Fermentation when dead? The snake arrived alive and bloated and lived for quite some time afterward with the bloat. I mean lets be real folks, the snake lived for several days if not weeks with the bloat, so how could it be bloated from being dead if it was alive? I mean if you are going to make a statment here, lets not go off the page with the screwy contentions.

The buyer and I spoke about putting a probe in the vent to release the gas but don't think he did.

Dan



The bloating has nothing to do with IBD, it's just a result of fermentation by bacteria inside the gut when the snake dies. There's no need for blockage for gas production.


If the snake was kept in improper conditions, or didnt have the correct amount of heat( or just avoided the heat for some reason, they do that sometimes), it could have had bloat from a recent feeding. Gas can happen in a snake if you fed it recently, and it just needs a good soak. I had a ball python I knew was male, and he just got Gas. But it sure as hell looked like some sort of Ovulation or something and it hung around for a Couple days!!! Not really sure why that happened, but in the end, after a good soak, and a decent bowel movement it went away, and has never happened again... This could have happened to that snake.

How do you KNOW that that snake was 100% healthy when you cant SEE or detect IBD with your eyes in boas until its too late!? Im sure you cant even tell us.

How do you KNOW the rest of your animals for sale are NOT 100% FACT infected?! Just because you looked at them???
 
Seamus Haley said:
Dan, you can't screen live snakes for IBD. They tend to get a bit... y'know... dead with the liver completely removed.


I thought that there was a Live liver biopsy that can be done, but it is quite expensive.

Just wanted to clear that up, in case others and myself have a misunderstanding of the testing options available.
 
Dan Scolaro said:
I do recall researching IBD on the internet months ago and read about it in mammals that had bone/spine disorders or issues with bones and these inclusive bodies showed when the animals were examined. Something else tells me I learned they were related to bones, so I called them bone cells by mistake.


Tell me the definition of This particular IBD.

What does IBD mean to you?

*guys im sorry im posting so much, just got back home!*
 
A lot of the discussion in this thread has been attempts by some parties to throw out "red-herrings" so as to confuse or side-track the issues. Regarding bone cells and IBD, it is as such a red herring. IBD in reptiles has nothing to do with the inclusion bodies associated with some bone disease. These bone diseases can lead to easier bone breakage. Inclusion bodies have nothing to do with regular bone breakages, strangulations, etc., and are not in themselves a disease. IBD in boids is viral in nature, while the larger family of inclusion bodies themselves are not necessarily viral, and in fact, most are not. The amount of data available over the years on IBD in boids is extensive and specific.

Short version: IBD in boids relating to bones and strangulations .. forget about it.
 
Chameleon Company said:
A lot of the discussion in this thread has been attempts by some parties to throw out "red-herrings" so as to confuse or side-track the issues. Regarding bone cells and IBD, it is as such a red herring. IBD in reptiles has nothing to do with the inclusion bodies associated with some bone disease. These bone diseases can lead to easier bone breakage. Inclusion bodies have nothing to do with regular bone breakages, strangulations, etc., and are not in themselves a disease. IBD in boids is viral in nature, while the larger family of inclusion bodies themselves are not necessarily viral, and in fact, most are not. The amount of data available over the years on IBD in boids is extensive and specific.

Short version: IBD in boids relating to bones and strangulations .. forget about it.


Thank you Jim. that answers my earlier question. 'Preciate it.
 
I took some short-cut liberties with the explanation of inclusion bodies, but rest assured that there is no linkage in the logic presented earlier that strangulation of a boid leads to inclusion bodies related to some bone diseases in the system leads to diagnosis of inclusion bodies in the liver consistent with IBD in boids. They are three separate conditions that are not linked in any relevant way.
 
Chameleon Company said:
I took some short-cut liberties with the explanation of inclusion bodies, but rest assured that there is no linkage in the logic presented earlier that strangulation of a boid leads to inclusion bodies related to some bone diseases in the system leads to diagnosis of inclusion bodies in the liver consistent with IBD in boids. They are three separate conditions that are not linked in any relevant way.

You seem to have a clear knowledgeable understanding of the subject. From the report you've seen earlier, do you think its possible that the inclusion bodies found are unrelated to IBD?

Basically, if this was a report on your snake within your stock, how concerned would you be?
 
Mooing Tricycle said:
If the snake was kept in improper conditions, or didnt have the correct amount of heat( or just avoided the heat for some reason, they do that sometimes), it could have had bloat from a recent feeding. Gas can happen in a snake if you fed it recently, and it just needs a good soak.

How do you KNOW that that snake was 100% healthy when you cant SEE or detect IBD with your eyes in boas until its too late!? Im sure you cant even tell us.

How do you KNOW the rest of your animals for sale are NOT 100% FACT infected?! Just because you looked at them???

Another cause for excessive gas could be upper resp. ailments. If a snake is having trouble breathing, they sometimes tend to "gulp" air and wind up swallowing some.

And I will once again remind everyone that yes, you are correct. There is no way to tell if a Boa is carrying/infected with IBD simply by looking at it.
 
One would think that the ads for boas would be withdrawn but as of this morning his ads are still on KS.
 
Mike,

I think my opinion on how I would conclusively react to the possibility of IBD is not well-timed here based on what we know. The implications of IBD, and its impact on someone who essentially buys and resells boids, is a multi-level problem. Dan's problems here IMMHO, in this thread, are not so much his base actions, that being shipping a skink, a boid, having health/TOS claims, and how he does or does not fix them in their simplest remedies. We may not agree with all those base actions, but he has some cover for all his decisions regarding refund and/or replacement. His difficulties here are his debate here, in that rather than keep things concise, in a "this is what I did, and this was my logic", he has expanded every argument with antagonism etc., and fueled them plenty. Brevity is the soul of wit, and I see no wit. I'm not saying that IBD is not a problem ... hardly. But if it were my problem, I would do all that I could to resolve it within my business. Part of that solution would hopefully be to not take actions that would exacerbate the issue here.
 
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